ECC/Neon Head on 420A/DSM Block

[LD25Delta9]

EDIT: Original title: "ECC head on 420A block"

Mark.....need to know if it will work....not if it will fit, but if it will work. You know what I'm getting into and I'm wondering if this can work so I don't have to haggle Mike to build me a reverse intake mani. So long as it is just the mounting locations that are transverse and not the bolt patterns, I'm golden... It would put everything shooting at the front of the bay rather than the back. Which is perfect for the W2A IC....see where I'm goin?

Mods: I tried to follow the no asking tech questions in PM's rule. Hopefully, if anybody gets as crazy as me, this thread will serve a good purpose.

 

[bullettdsm]

Welp, Adam........I don't know what an ECC head is .........

MB

 

[95talongirl]

Dodge Neon DOHC head.

I honestly have not seen anyhting yet where the two have been interchanged other than the valve covers. And I beleive to get the 420Avalve cover to fit, there was a bolt that needed to be modified. As you know, the Neon head is 180 out from the 420 version, but technically the blocks are the same; from what i've read on Allpar... so I'd assume it would work?

 

[KazooGS-T]

Dodge Neon DOHC head.

I honestly have not seen anyhting yet where the two have been interchanged other than the valve covers. And I beleive to get the 420Avalve cover to fit, there was a bolt that needed to be modified. As you know, the Neon head is 180 out from the 420 version, but technically the blocks are the same; from what i've read on Allpar... so I'd assume it would work?

It should, there are a few neon guys that have put a 420a head on their block.

 

[LD25Delta9]

Yeah, I know that it has been done the other way around. The Red Sled is a 2.4 SRT block mated to a 420A head. I know that the Neon ECC block is the same as the 420A block, just different badging. So, in theory, it will work. Now I need to buy a used Neon head to start putting things together to test fit everything.

I'll be using a modified Neon VC anyways. So that's not so much of an issue any more.
After doing more research, I found a way to get around using the stock Water inlet. That was going to be one of my main problems, then I saw the freeze plugs. It looks like with a weld-on AN fitting I can clear the cams, block off the stock inlet and use my AMM IM. It's all starting to come together on paper, and the price tag actually keeps getting better and better compared to what I had originally thought. Thanks for the input guys. I was 99% sure it would work with my build, but having a little confirmation helps.

 

[bullettdsm]

.....and I still want to know what the heck an ECC head is. You could have just said Neon head, but since you decided to bring up the term ECC, now you're gonna have to tell me what that means

I'm wondering about your issue with the stock water inlet. I'm thinking why not just use the Neon housing? (Conflict with the AMM?). Let's see, the cam magnet would be an issue to overcome (for those that don't have standalone MSnS - as well as a bunch of other sensors). Of course the obvious logistics/mechanics of intake (throttle body sensors - if needed - throttle cable extension, extending electrical wires, physical locations/adaptations of exhaust and intake manifolds). Of course without MSnS you would need to figure a way to sync up the crank position sensor, the cam sensor and the cam timing as well. I'm figuring with MSnS you will be using the Neon's settings.

That's just from the Neon head, in my head Kinda just off the top of my head (you see where this is heading )

But as always, anything is doable.

MB

Oh yeah, also keep in mind that depending on what pistons you are using, you need to be aware that they could conflict with the valves. Some are not dirctional and some are. If they are directional then you would stand of chance of having the intake valves contact the pistons,a s well as the flat face of the piston having a possibility of hitting the head.

Just something to keep in mind

 

[#40Fan]

Are you looking for a front intake port head? I have one off of a 2.4l, same thing as the Neon 2.0. Water neck is attached as well as the EGR (not that you need it) Currently sits without the cams or gears, but can get those. Some of the followers were lost in disassembly, but all of the lash adjusters are there. PM me for pics if you are interested.

Oh, the ECC is just the Neons name for the 420a.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Oh, the ECC is just the Neons name for the 420a.

WTF

I don't get it... the "ECC" is just the DOHC 2.0L 420A variant. Asking "will an ECC head fit on a 420A block" is like asking "will an ECC head fit on an ECC block."

I'm changing the thread title...

 

[nuclearr]

Go to any Chrysler Dealer and ask about an ECC engine they will have no clue as to what you are talking about. There are 3 420a's The sohc neon enigine, dohc neon, and the reversed dohc in talons, eclipes, avengers seabring coups. Block on all are nearly identical. I sold an old core block to a friend when I was working at a Chrysler dealer. I sold him a sohc 420a block. He rebuilt it and mated it to the eclipse head with out any issues (that I am aware of).

 

[95talongirl]

^^ Sure they will... when I worked for a Dodge dealer, I had to know what the Chrysler engine codes were.

ECC- 2.0L DOHC
ECB- 2.0L SOHC (pre 01)
A588 - 2.0L SOHC after 01
ECH- 2.0L SOHC MAgnum
EDZ- 2.4L DOHC (non turbo, pre NGC)
EDV/EDT 2.4L DOHC turbo
420A- 2.0L DOHC for the FJ chassis (avenger/eclipse/talon)

Techincially, the 420A and the Chrysler version are not the same, hence the different coding. They are close enough, but, as mentioned earlier, different because the 420A's head is "on backwards"

 

[VelocitàPaola]

That makes more sense... ECC = 2.0L DOHC Neon, 420A = 2.0L DOHC DSM/Avenger/Sebring. Thread title changed again.

 

[bullettdsm]

See what you started Adam You could have just said Neon head, but NOOOOOO you had to use some fancy-azz letters, .

And for the record, I called my Dodge dealership for fun, and they had no idea what I was talking about until I mentioned the Neon head (of course, that's not saying much with the help nowadays).

In regards to the swap; here's hoping that you do it successfully (with a write up with pics ). Then we could see the various obstacles to overcome. I think the real key to trying this would MSnS. Otherwise the obstacles would be much more extensive.

MB

 

[LD25Delta9]

I'M SORRY!!!! I know it was kind of redundant to word things the way I did. And I always like to make sure to confirm my theory before I have a more knowledgable MOD make a fool out of me....which is fairly easy to do.

I'll be getting MS before any of this goes down. Yeah you were right Mark, about the AMM intake. There's discrepancies with a couple of things, but that's why I'm posting now rather than after all the fab work is done and I'm sitting dead in the water with a head I can't use. Good to know about the Piston interference. Just out of curiosity, say it was a problem, and I had already spent the money for the bottom end, would I be able to rotate the pistons 180*? Or should I get a Neon Bottom end? These are more along the lines of things that I'll need to know this winter. There's alot of planning going into this...

Sorry if my thread turned into a discussion of the names rather than the compatibility.

 

[Carter_95RS]

After talking to you about this last night it sounds like it'll work, but i'm still not sure about the cam's, like you also mentioned last night.
either way, i'll be there to help out man. you're only about an hour away

 

[95talongirl]

I'M SORRY!!!! I know it was kind of redundant to word things the way I did. And I always like to make sure to confirm my theory before I have a more knowledgable MOD make a fool out of me....which is fairly easy to do.

I'll be getting MS before any of this goes down. Yeah you were right Mark, about the AMM intake. There's discrepancies with a couple of things, but that's why I'm posting now rather than after all the fab work is done and I'm sitting dead in the water with a head I can't use. Good to know about the Piston interference. Just out of curiosity, say it was a problem, and I had already spent the money for the bottom end, would I be able to rotate the pistons 180*? Or should I get a Neon Bottom end? These are more along the lines of things that I'll need to know this winter. There's alot of planning going into this...

Sorry if my thread turned into a discussion of the names rather than the compatibility.

If you're going to complicate things why not just 2.4L SRT swap it. I'm sure it's just a couple of fabbed up motor mounts away. The transmission should work, as well... I believe they used NV-350's in the dsms as well.

Ok promise to not derail this thread anymore. Maybe I'm just curious as to what yer up too.

 

[LD25Delta9]

Negatory. I've already got something super unique going on and adding that block now would only complicate things. Maybe once I get this much accomplished and if I'm left wanting more, then I'll go with the 2.4. I appreciate the advice and suggestions as always, though. Always good to have the input.

I promise that once I get all my parts for the bay and the rear end I'll start posting progress. I already know this task won't be for the faint of heart for whoever would like to reproduce the results. There just seems to be too much going into prep and fab on paper, let alone when the build actually starts.

 

[#40Fan]

Rear End?? Hmmmm.....

 

[95talongirl]

Maybe he's doing something interesting... like... this..

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[LD25Delta9]

^^ BANG POW WHAMMY ZOOM!.....whatever that means.....

 

[Carter_95RS]

...secret's out Adam...

 

[LD25Delta9]

G D it all! It's not so much a secret anymore. Most people 'round here are pretty sharp....Mark's known for a while anyways. Now just to make it happen. So long as ZERO doesn't get any wild hairs, I think I'm alright. That guy just seems to poop out money for his build...Thank you Uncle Sam! I just need to enroll in the Army AND college! Then I could build a DSM with an RB26DETT...

For the rest of you: There will be a progress log and one hell of a nasty write-up. My biggest obstacle to overcome is going to be the Slave and TO bearing...I'm about to get ahold of the owner of the above Shadow: Larry. He's already done this and I need to know his set-up for the R154.

Mark: The pistons do need to be turned around, but the rods must stay the same for the oil squirters. Thanks for the heads up on that.