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Need help with 420a tuning and SAFCII

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2qik4u

15+ Year Contributor
180
0
Oct 5, 2007
Free Soil, Michigan
First off if you havent done and equivalent built or extencively worked on an equivalent build to mine dont waste my time with maybe nonsense please. I have a 98 eclipse 420a with stock ecu. I have a missing link. Bottom end is bored .020 over with wiseco forged pistons, eagle h-beam rods and stock equivalent forged crank. I have also done a very extensive port and polish on the head with 1mm oversized valves and upgraded crower springs,retainers,and positive valve stem seals. I picked up 50 cfm on intake side and 30 cfm on exhaust side. I still have stock cams and stock cam gears. I have installed a walbro 250lph fuel pump and RC Engineering 550cc injectors with a SARD 1:1 rising rate fuel pressure regulator. I have a custom tubular turbo manifold with an XSPower t3/t4 thrust bearing turbo and a front mount intercooler. I have wired an SAFCII but have done no corrections because I need to still purchase and install a wideband 02 sensor but don't know which one I want yet. I also have yet to install a Greddy profec e-01 boost controller which I have already but don't yet have it installed. right now I have installed a homemade ball and spring manual boost controller. I have an unorthodox underdrive crank pulley. Fidanza ultimate aluminum flywheel and spec stage 3 clutch. also have short throw shifter. I guess my first question would be what way does the little white disk have to sit in my missing link?? there is a narrow end and a wide end to the disk which end goes up??? Second question it I have an autometer 02 sensor and autometer guage and the wiring goes purple, red, black, now what wires form my stock 02 sensor splice into that and what colors go with what?? I know the purple is the voltage wire that tells the guage the ratio and I know the black and red are for power and to run the heater for the sensor itself but don't know how to hook my ecu up to this cause wire colors don't match.
now the rest of what I'm concerned about involves the actual tuning. when I get my wideband I know what my voltages need to be for rich lean and stoich but I don't understand fuel air correction with the SAFCII. DO I need to go positive ir negative with my corrections with 550cc injectors?? when I go positive does that tell the ecu to feed more or less fuel?? if anyone who has proven results with a similar setup would help me I would very much appreciate this. this is my first DSM and actually my first 4cyl build. when engine was first built we had it on engine dyno and it ran great pushing almost 260hp but that was with a pro running it on a standalone that was part of the engine dyno and unfortunalely this guy passed away in a motorcycle vs, tractor trailor accident so I can not seek his help and now I am Kind of lost. PLease help me.:cry::confused:
Sincerely,
2qik4u
PS if I don't reply right away its cause Im only able to get on internet on saturdays and sundays.
1 more question. does anyone sell upgraded or custom ecu's for our na motors that have been boosted??
 
I guess my first question would be what way does the little white disk have to sit in my missing link?? there is a narrow end and a wide end to the disk which end goes up???
I'm not sure... in the long run missing links prove to be unreliable. Electronic means (i.e. fuel cut defenders) tend to be a better choice.

Second question it I have an autometer 02 sensor and autometer guage and the wiring goes purple, red, black, now what wires form my stock 02 sensor splice into that and what colors go with what?? I know the purple is the voltage wire that tells the guage the ratio and I know the black and red are for power and to run the heater for the sensor itself but don't know how to hook my ecu up to this cause wire colors don't match.
I gather you know how to connect the other wires, right?

http://www.autometer.com/productPDF/0837L.pdf

The violet wire from the AFR gauge taps into the white wire with a black stripe. The other wires from the gauge harness connect to power/ground/illumination sources as depicted in the install diagram.

DO I need to go positive ir negative with my corrections with 550cc injectors?? when I go positive does that tell the ecu to feed more or less fuel?? if anyone who has proven results with a similar setup would help me I would very much appreciate this.
Just pull the S-AFCII right out. You'll be better off with an S-FMU... easier to tune, and actually effective. See here:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272661

1 more question. does anyone sell upgraded or custom ecu's for our na motors that have been boosted??
Howell sells something for the '97 M/T's, but other than that, no.
 
Getting 550's to idle is going to be very difficult with just an SAFC. It's only got some many points of adjustment you're going to be using most of it's effect on the idle alone. I would honestly get some 440's and throw on an SFMU. That will allow you to run more boost and control static FP with the SFMU. If you get the assorted discs with the SFMU you can tune it to some extent. The SAFC is only going to make things worse it's tested and proven to only create problems on the 420a. If you can get it to work for a value packed advantage, more power to you. It;s also limited to +(-)%50 of fuel correction.
 
1 more question. does anyone sell upgraded or custom ecu's for our na motors that have been boosted??

The Howell unit will not work well for turbo applications. There is Megasquirt and Spark available. You can use it as a standalone or a piggy back but it will require you to do sum learnin'. This will get you started;

http://www.msextra.com/

MB
 
Yeah man, with the mods you've got and the horsepower goals you've got, The SAFC is just not going to satisfy you. I've been there trying to tune my car using the SAFC, and only ran into problems, remember you cannot add fuel fuel with the SAFC, and the 1:1 AFPR isn't going to meet the demands of the 550cc injectors using the SAFC.

You either need to get on the megasquirt tip while tuning the 550cc injectors or switch over to hahn's porterfueler. (8 injector setup, www.hahnracecraft.com)

The missing link is kind of outdated, and has been known to fail. so go with an electronic fuel cut defender like paul (velocita paola) makes and distributes

As for the wideband choice, I'm an AEM fan on this one, because its really the only one I've used, But I've seen the zextronics and PLX widebands do wonders for people too. Also decide on if your going to want the gauge display in the car or just want it only when your tuning. And if your planning on getting a wideband in the near future, you might as well scrap the narrow band install, and sell that off with your SAFC2 to make some cash to buy your wideband.

FCD's and Megasquirt setups can be purchased fully setup or with as little as you request by one of your very own dsmtuners/2gnt members. (velocita paola). Yes I'm plugging him, and if you haven't visted the website you guys should, he's got a couple of nifty gadgets (yeah I said nifty) that might make life easier for you.
www.symtechlabs.com
 
Everyone pretty much covered everything.

From what I read in your origional post, I would go with a Hahn Portfueler setup. That setup is very easy to tune (I am in the process of tuning it now), and it is takes the guess work out of idle issues.

Just to restate it, scrap the safc as it is as good for horsepower as altezzas.

You need to sit down and just scroll this website and www.2gnt.com for all of your 420A DSM needs.


-Alex
 
My friend Curtis asked me about this today. What about the SAFC2? I'm not going to use one, just wondering. Since it has a setup made for the MAP Sensor... He was curious and it made me curious.
 
SAFC, SAFC2, SAFC neo,

They all do not add fuel only remove it.

They all still require a voltage clamp on our stock map sensors in order to run boost, therefore under boost the stock ecu doesn't realize what is happening and begins to advance timing like it would at that high of an rpm setting, when in reality you'd like it to either do nothing or to retard timing if anything. (its not so much of a big issue on low boost, but you'll notice it as you increase boost pressure)

There is more to it, but I don't have the links for it right now.
 
Ok guys you have deffinately started to lead me in the right direction and I thank you for that!!! who do I get a FCD from that I can trust??? I have no start or idle problems at this time. Right now all my problems are with boost over 2psi. I am not driving the car till spring because I just put about $7500 into motor drivetrain and urethane bushings and don't want to waste that doing something stupid like detonating and burning down $900 dollar pistons along with rods and God knows what else but I will check out sites and probably go with a megasquirt. I've heard alot of good about them and there build your own standalone system. do you know of anyone able to reflash ecu incase I go piggyback?? also I am willing to do same port and polish on 420a heads that I did to mine with very little invasion to the head but great results if anyone is interested let me know maybe we can trade parts for work or something. thanks alot I will check back for any new info next weekend.
sincerely,
2qik4u
 
Ok guys you have deffinately started to lead me in the right direction and I thank you for that!!! who do I get a FCD from that I can trust???
See post #7... :coy:

burning down $900 dollar pistons
Dear god, $900 pistons?! Or did you mean $900 pistons/rods?

do you know of anyone able to reflash ecu incase I go piggyback??
No. The only way to successfully use a piggyback is by using more piggybacks to trick the ECU into thinking the original piggyback isn't there. Got it?

do you know anyone interested in buying my ******* I will sell it for ***** with ***** and *****.
Keep ads in the Classifieds section.
 
A quote from the recipit for my car...
$499.95 JE 8.6 Compression 2.2 Pistons Turbo for use with 3.540 Stroker Crank
$350.00 Eagle 2.0 Connecting Rod 3/8 Bolt Set of 4

Thats the expensive setup too... Which does require the crank, but just showing from that last post..... 900 dolors for pistons, something very wrong there.
 
do you know of anyone able to reflash ecu incase I go piggyback?? ,
2qik4u
If you piggy back with MSnS you won't need to reflash anything. It does the important stuff for you, while the stock ecu does the other mundane stuff (like your cooling fans etc).

I am currently running MSnS as a piggyback for two of my cars.

MB
 
bullettdsm's car is like a perfect example of how fine tuning works out... 13 second N/A 420A... If he put the same amount of time in tuning a turbo setup, no telling the times he'd be throwing down.
 
I love throwing your 420A N/A Numbers at some of the local Turbo DSM Guys... they seem to have no faith in 420A Turbo's... They also don't belive me about your N/A Numbers, But screw what they think! I'll show them up... again! Very soon!
 
yes when I said pistons for $900 i meant pistons and rods but usually when a piston or two goes so do rods. sorry for confusion. so if I go with megasquirt is there a proven setup for our car or is the thing pretty universal?? should I get secondary injectors?? I plan to run a 70hp shot to spool my turbo and I plan on race boost settings over 24 psi. :sneaky:
 
Like some people say, you can run a lawn mower with MSnS... LOL... Its fully universal. You have to build the wireing n stuff, but Paul does this. Ready to wire in as a piggy back, or a stand alone.

As for a tune to atleast run the motor, you can download uploaded setups that are claimed to work, and get into tuning it yourself after that. thats what I'm going to do.

I'm doing a 2.2 Stroker with .20 Overbore with Eagle H beam Rods. 850 bucks.
 
i hate to tell you this... but get rid of the SAFC and get an AEM Fi/C best thing i ever did. the safc is way to gimmicky and the AEM will you give you an almost standalone tune
 
do you know if the turbo PT Cruiser ecu will run my motor??? are there map sensors anything like ours in shape and size???? just a crazy thought but I would like to know if anyone has used that ecu and map to run a 420a in an eclipse or talon. ang again does anyone know if it would be to my advantage to run secondary injectors?? I have decided to have paul build me a standalone megasquirt when I have the money in the spring.:p
 
ld just like to say who ever started the idea that the SAFCII DOESN'T add fuel is wrong. IT does add fuel and it does take fuel out. it does both. Sorry for waking up an old thread but im sure people are reading this and getting wrong info. "The SUPER AFC II is a fuel adjustment controller in which the airflow sensor signal or the
pressure sensor signal can be modified in a 12 point RPM range by 1% increments to
increase/decrease fuel in a range of +50% to –50%." straight from the manual.
 
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