worst case scenario? now what

[oren hughbanks]

So my talon started running like dirt, acting like it had fuel cut and would break up on anything more than 10lbs of boost. So I figured I would look at my plugs as I diagnose this issue and here is what I found! Da fuq?? I'm not sure what could cause this, possibly a defective plug or too Much boost? Maybe lots of knock? Been keeping an eye on my AFR and it has been well within safe zone and haven't noticed it pulling timing.

So now what do I do? Been driving it like that since yesterday afternoon so could the damage be done already?

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[BlackGSXEclipse]

From the angle it's hard to tell, is the plug broke or just bent? Have you tried new plugs and see how it runs yet?

 

[akdov823]

That broke right? I would start by hooking a small piece of hose to your shop vac. Send that down the spark plug hole and search for the piece. You should be able to get it, then replace the plugs and see if your problem is fixed. If it already bent a valave it's not gonna hurt to try.

 

[BlackGSXEclipse]

Of you could use a magnet to get the piece out if the shop vac doesn't do it, if it's broke that is

 

[aparker]

Looks like the insulator is broken. Not sure what causes that. Defective plug??

 

[oren hughbanks]

Yeah the electrode and insulator are toast. I have no idea how that happens. I tried both tricks and well didn't get anything. Put in a new set of BPR7 and its running great back to 100%. I'm hoping that the electrode tip just got blown out the exhaust

 

[Wayne]

That is the result of DETONATION! check to see if your knock sensor is functioning and check/revise your tune

 

[Dsmkauai]

^^ Seems alittle to clean for detention!! All the plugs I've seen detinate looked much worse, and the center gets heavy damage, but not saying its not! That plug looks like it just fell apart! When's the last time you changed them ? I would be alittle worried about all the porsolin in my motor!! The metal probably burnt up or pushed out but the porsolin I don't know man! I would be flushing the motor till i found every piece!

 

[oren hughbanks]

^^ Seems alittle to clean for detention!! All the plugs I've seen detinate looked much worse, and the center gets heavy damage, but not saying its not! That plug looks like it just fell apart! When's the last time you changed them ? I would be alittle worried about all the porsolin in my motor!! The metal probably burnt up or pushed out but the porsolin I don't know man! I would be flushing the motor till i found every piece!

The plugs are only a month old at best, I just swapped from 6's to 7's. Well I'm pretty sure it busted in the middle of my last WOT pull, so I'm sure it just had a party on my piston.

Go home spark plug, your drunk.

 

[Dsmkauai]

Oh gotcha ouch! Better clean everything out good before you run it again! Might wanna check conpression on thay cyl, could have damaged a valve or 2. You had some big knock up to during that pull! Did you lean out? Got a log? What was your gap at?

 

[jimsgsx]

Damn! You gotta find that piece man. Does not look like detonation. Dsmkauai was right it looks way too clean.

 

[oren hughbanks]

Ok ok guys here's what happened. So a friend of mine from work has a '13 5.0 moosestang, and we we're running them out on the highway. I had it up to about 20lbs so not a whole lot I normally run 18. My AFRs were holding solid, actually a little on the rich side and right before I grab 4th I lose all power. I wish I had a data log to put up, but the only log I can do is off my wideband so I have no throttle input on it. It's just the AFR. All my other plugs looked great tho, a little black but I've seen much worse. Unfortunately I got pulled on after I lost that plug,

 

[Dsmkauai]

I think the plug failed bro! Was it ngk? Or you leaned out (but you say rich! How rich?) and somehow cracked the porsolin and it just Broke apart. I mean look how the tip is perfect untouched! Something wasn't happy, or just a weird plug failer case.
And you need to turn the boost down alittle, till you have the proper tuning software! I think what your using is at its limits and your trying to push it to much!

 

[oren hughbanks]

I agree, well by reach I mean 10.1 during the pull, that's usually where it stays, or where I try to keep it when I've got it turned up. I guess I was running the old girl a little too hard, and yes they are ngk plugs that's all I run. All my other plugs looked great too. Things are gona stay turned down for now, until I get better tuning. This is a wake-up call for sure .

 

[boost97gst]

Maybe ya got lucky and it just crushed the porcelain to powder and expelled it. It most definitely left its mark though, on the piston and not too much on the valve i hope!
I've never seen that happen. Pretty wild.....
Porcelain isnt going to burn up , it's porcelain.......

 

[NHerron]

Is it possible improper gapping procedure could cause that. IE, prying between center and side electrode.

 

[o0GuitarKid0o]

check your oil filter out ya never no

 

[bryanwheat]

check your oil filter out ya never no

What is he supposed to be checking the oil filter for?

 

[bastarddsm]

Yeah that's detonation.

Probably has ringlands broke. Put new one in it and see how it runs. Prolly should take some timing out of it, and make sure your knock sensor is working.

 

[dugan33]

It's more likely to have been detonation than a faulty plug sorry to be a realist. Maybe do a leak down test something could be up with just that cylinder what did the other plugs look like? Notice any burning coolant do you run meth injection sometimes the hot/cold shock can damage spark plugs that's why snow performance recommends changing plugs every oil change.

 

[oren hughbanks]

The other plugs looked great, no coolant burning, no oil burning and compression is great too. I guess anything over 20lbs is too much on 91. Here is my situation I have no access to E85 so what kind of options do I have? I have been looking at meth injection but I hear mixed reviews on it, our local airport sells afgas but I've never mixed that with 91.[DOUBLEPOST=1413808640][/DOUBLEPOST]That plug went at over 6k rpms, so if it did any damage it's already done. I put in New plugs and its running great. I Figured I could get away with a few more lbs since my 2g pistons are only 8.5 compression.

I'm looking at going to a HX35. I don't think I'm going to see much more out of my 20g on pump gas.
And yes, I'm going to link before any turbo upgrade will be made. But how much of a difference will I see with a HX compared to that 20g, when all I can get is 91 pump gas?

How big of a change to timing am I looking at when I go to link, I know the 1g map is already pretty agressive.

 

[bryanwheat]

The other plugs looked great, no coolant burning, no oil burning and compression is great too. I guess anything over 20lbs is too much on 91. Here is my situation I have no access to E85 so what kind of options do I have? I have been looking at meth injection but I hear mixed reviews on it, our local airport sells afgas but I've never mixed that with 91.

An safc with 20 psi on a 20g on 91 octane is going to be detonating like crazy regardless of the air/fuel ratio. When you use a piggyback to tune the fuel with it modifies the signal from the maf sensor to the ecu to make the ecu think that there is less air going thru the maf. It does this to scale back the injectors. 1g's already have very aggressive timing for even the stock turbo with 91 octane. When you trick the ecu into seeing less airflow you are also increasing the timing advance under a load. Because of this, you are way more likely to knock. You can add all the fuel you want until the engine is so rich that it is bogging, but it is still going to knock with that much timing. You are very lucky that you didn't do quite a bit more damage driving it like this. I would definitely do a compression test. Thee is a real good chance that you have broken ring lands on at least one piston, possibly all of them. If it somehow turns out to not have any damage to the pistons than i would turn the boost down to wastegate pressure until you have a way to properly tune, and a way to log. An eprom with a custom chip for the injectors and a little timing removed would be way better than what you are currently working with.

 

[oren hughbanks]

Awesome thanks for the info, yes everything is turned down for now. I've been slowly dialing up the boost keep a close eyes on things, I normally run 16psi daily. I have never noticed it pulling timing, never had a check engine light go on or any other sign that it has been knocking. my pistons are almost new, my machine shop checked them over and said they look great so I hope it didn't do further damage.

 

[bastarddsm]

Consider that broken sparkplug a warning. You engine says "Ouchie, I don't like that" If you keep doing what your doing your going to blow it up. Either buy a meth kit, or back the timing off by setting the cas to like 0* instead of 5*....

Then again, what do I know. It's not like I run 10's on a stock shortblock in a 3200lb car.....

 

[oren hughbanks]

That's what I would like to look into is a meth kit. Since I have no access to E85