1G Where can I find LSD for FWD ?

[Purple_T63]

Alright so to make it short, my current tranny is grinding when I shift in 3rd and 4th so I'm planning on rebuilding one of my spares to swap in next summer.

It's a f5m33 transmission out of (I believe) a 1990 talon fwd turbo. I found a rebuild kit on Jacks Transmissions for all the synchros and shift forks but I can't seem to find a LSD anywhere. I am not planning on taking it to the dragstrip, just a street / track setup. Any recommendations?

It feels like I've searched everywhere and can't seem to find one for a FWD. Also if you have any tips to lookout for when taking these things apart would also help me out a ton!

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[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Talk to Tim Zimmer @twicks69

Quaife LSD Front Differential For FWD DSM/3000GT QDH7B 27-Spline Axles

www.tmzperformance.com

 

[twicks69]

Talk to Tim Zimmer @twicks69

Quaife LSD Front Differential For FWD DSM/3000GT QDH7B 27-Spline Axles

www.tmzperformance.com

He has a 1990 transmission, he needs to use a Quaife QDH8B and 2x MN168441 bearings with my speedo gear.
Proper link here - https://www.tmzperformance.com/shop/quaife-lsd-front-differential-for-awd-dsmevo-1-3gvr4-qdh8b/
If you are purchasing from me, please note that it is being used in a 1G FWD transmission and needs MN168441 bearings installed.

As well, regarding the 90 trans, you will want to have it fully disassembled before you just start ordering everything. There are variations in parts used. As well, the FWD 1st/2nd shift fork I believe is obsolete.
1st/2nd hub and slider, 1st/2nd needle bearings, 1st/2nd gear and intermediate shaft could be an early style with smaller shaft diameter and unique 89-early 90 style components. Hopefully it is late-90 or later.

Here is some info -
Input Shaft Inner Tapered Roller Bearing - MD732314
Input Shaft Outer Tapered Roller Bearing - MD726235
Intermediate Shaft Inner Bearing - MD726236
Intermediate Shaft Outer Bearing - MD726237
Output Shaft Inner/Outer Tapered Roller Bearing - MD718028 x2
Front Differential 25-spline Tapered Roller Bearings MN168441 x2

1st/2nd Gear Needle Bearing (1991-1999) - MD737652 x2
3rd/4th Gear Needle Bearing - MD718033 x2
*if your 1st and 2nd needle bearings are the same dimension
as the 3rd needle bearing, you are working with an early style gearset.
You would then use MD718033 on 1/2/3/4 gears. Normally 4th uses a 2 piece
needle bearing which is MD749902; the MD718033 is interchangeable and lower priced.
5th Gear Needle Bearing - MD719137


Expect small diameter early style 5th/Rev synchros, small diameter 89-92.5 style 3rd/4th synchros, and single synchros on 1st/2nd gears.
If your 5th/Rev synchros are the same overall size as the 3rd/4th synchros, then it is a later style synchro used.

1st / 2nd gear synchros - MD745477 x2
3rd / 4th synchros - MD744782 x2
5th gear synchro (small diameter pre-1991.5.2) - MD728990
Rev synchros (small diameter pre-1991.5.2) - MD724884

Shift forks:
1st/2nd Shift fork is unique to the F5M33 transmission only, and I believe is obsolete.
You might get lucky finding one from Jack, otherwise, Amayama is showing some in Japan.
1st/2nd FWD shift fork - MD720341
3rd/4th 2-hole shift fork - MD741558

1st/2nd hub and slider, as I discussed before, the super early gearsets had a unique
gearset for the 1/2 stuff combined with smaller needle bearings and smaller shaft diameter.
If you have to replace the 1/2 hub and slider on the super early stuff, you will need to
use a MD749414 hub and slider, and reuse your early style small diameter hub with the new slider.

1st/2nd hub and slider - MD749414
1st/2nd hub and slider springs - MD742445 x2
1st/2nd hub and slider keys - MD742775 x3

3rd/4th hub and slider is obsolete. If you are needing to replace it, you can purchase it from
this guy in Australia. Link - https://www.ebay.com/itm/203959260296
This hub and slider uses the late version keys.
3rd/4th hub and slider springs - MD742441 x2
3rd/4th hub and slider keys - MD748663 x3

End Shaft Nut MD731948 x2
Plastic Shift Pad MD712919
Roll Pins 5.2mm x 26mm MD701722 x3
Input Shaft Seal MD741818
Axle Seal MD707184 x2
Clutch Fork Pivot Ball MD719602
Clutch Fork Boot MD718077
Transmission Breather Bulb MD733296
Bellhousing Dowels MD020260
Reverse Idler Gear Bolt Washer MD720603
Reverse Wave Spring MD744342
Reverse Switch Washer MF660035
Reverse Lockout Bolt Washer MF660035
Fill Plug MD701850
Fill Plug Gasket Washer MF660036
Drain Plug MD728088
Drain Plug Gasket Washer MN130495

Input Shaft Snapring (1.5mm) MD723277
Intermediate Shaft Snapring (1.5mm) MD703780
Viscous Coupler Snapring (1.5mm) MD720687

This should be most of the part numbers you will need.

If you have questions, I can give further details.

TMZ

 

[Purple_T63]

Hey. Sorry for the late response! You have got quite the knowledge about all this! I will be taking my transmission apart soon so I will keep this thread posted about this if the need comes around but thanks for the mother-load of information! I was struggling to find the axle seals Part # and you provided i am looking to go on the track with the transmission but also drive it back home after so having all this will be really handy!

 

[habitatguy187]

Weld it

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

Weld it

While my welded diff was awesome in a straight line at the track it was horrible in the McDonald’s drive thru, not for a regularly driven street car in a fwd or a daily driver. Though if the TRE “rip grip” doesn’t hold I’ll be going back to a welded diff as I don’t street drive my car all that often anymore when it’s together, the times I do I can just deal.

 

[habitatguy187]

AWD guys weld their's and still drive them on the street. I'm thinking that fwd has to be easier welded than all wheel... But I've no personal experience with either tbh

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

AWD guys weld their's and still drive them on the street. I'm thinking that fwd has to be easier welded than all wheel... But I've no personal experience with either tbh

AWD guys weld the center diff, which isn't very active in taking turns. Welding the front diff in a FWD would be an absolute nightmare to drive around. Think about it - when you turn a corner, the outside wheel is supposed to turn around twice the speed of the inside wheel. What happens when they are locked together? It's going to jump, skip and break itself.

 

[twicks69]

Do not weld a front diff. Break an axle and drive right into a wall.

Come on now people do you know what you are talking about? You should not weld a front diff in an AWD or FWD car. It is a massive liability, especially in a street car for stability or track car if you kill an axle.

 

[bastarddsm]

Do not weld a front diff. Break an axle and drive right into a wall.

Come on now people do you know what you are talking about? You should not weld a front diff in an AWD or FWD car. It is a massive liability, especially in a street car for stability or track car if you kill an axle.

It's 2022, knowledge is not a requirement for getting loud on the internet.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

It's 2022, knowledge is not a requirement for getting loud on the internet.

I wasn’t getting loud? Simply stating I’ve ran one, broke one axle as a result of my own fault, didn’t hit a wall, worked well, and if this rip grip doesn’t work out I’d do it again. I’m not the first fwd guy to do it, others have successfully done it and no one has ended up in a wall, and I’m sure I won’t be the last. Simply stating you can’t weld a differential in a fwd and expect minimal inconvenience like welding the center diff in an awd, not telling everyone to go welding their front diff.

Edit: To add to it, I should be more clear I wasn’t the one who actually welded it. It was in 2 other local fwd 1g’s before I got my hands on it, and I won’t say who actually did weld it.

 

[twicks69]

Then do what you want. I have personally seen what can happen, and the outcome of yes, hitting a wall after snapping an axle at the track with a spool or welded stock front diff.

I am not a proponent of a street car having a welded front diff, especially when we have real LSD differentials available.

With the ripgrip, just be careful you don't wheel hop and break teeth off the pinion gears and spin the shrapnel in the bellhousing to create extra ventilation and fluid loss.

 

[luv2rallye]

Just in case some people here don't know, twicks69 (Tim Zimmer) is a professional tranny rebuilder and the resident tranny expert (which I have done business with when I rebuilt my 1999 FWD tranny myself). You would be wise to listen to him.

{Just FYI: 30 years ago I had a FWD diff welded but it was for a rally stage car on sand, mud, and gravel which worked great on that. However on pavement it was a nightmare always jumping/skipping/skidding wheels when turning (since they now cannot turn at different speeds) - I thought it would break the tranny any second and tryed to avoid it as much as possible - example: I would leave the car on the road and walk into McDonalds, etc. The slower the speed, the worse it is - I mean REALLY bad - like when crawling into a parking lot and turning, the entire car is shaking so violently you'd swaer something is breaking or going to.}

 

[habitatguy187]

It's 2022, knowledge is not a requirement for getting loud on the internet.

Ok mr controversial . I love your posts tho

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

Then do what you want. I have personally seen what can happen, and the outcome of yes, hitting a wall after snapping an axle at the track with a spool or welded stock front diff.

I am not a proponent of a street car having a welded front diff, especially when we have real LSD differentials available.

With the ripgrip, just be careful you don't wheel hop and break teeth off the pinion gears and spin the shrapnel in the bellhousing to create extra ventilation and fluid loss.

I mean it in no disrespect by any means, but as I tell anyone else on any other post where people start debating “this doesn’t work” or “that’s bad”, I go with real world experiences based on what I’ve seen or what I’ve done. Just like another post the other day people start arguing “this engine management is better than that engine management”, yet while one guy says AEM ems is garbage, another guy says LinkECU is garbage, I’ve seen plenty of people go faster than both those guys using those systems with no issue, meanwhile you go ask uncle Buschur he’ll tell you ECMlink is trash and you’re stupid if you use it (which we know from experience isn’t the case). Obviously engine management and driveline parts is comparing apples to oranges but to give an example of what I mean, until I SEE myself a reason not to that’s my stance on it, instead I’ve had others who’ve done the same point me in that direction who’ve never done me wrong yet. As far as if the rip grip grenades a trans, I’ve got more where that came from, if I get a few passes and blow it to hell then I know it doesn’t work and I pull another transmission out and don’t do that again.

Just in case some people here don't know, twicks69 (Tim Zimmer) is a professional tranny rebuilder and the resident tranny expert (which I have done business with when I rebuilt my 1999 FWD tranny myself). You would be wise to listen to him.

{Just FYI: 30 years ago I had a FWD diff welded but it was for a rally stage car on sand, mud, and gravel which worked great on that. However on pavement it was a nightmare always jumping/skipping/skidding wheels when turning (since they now cannot turn at different speeds) - I thought it would break the tranny any second and tryed to avoid it as much as possible - example: I would leave the car on the road and walk into McDonalds, etc. The slower the speed, the worse it is - I mean REALLY bad - like when crawling into a parking lot and turning, the entire car is shaking so violently you'd swaer something is breaking or going to.}

Well aware who Tim is, nothing against him and I respect his opinion. But I’m familiar with the way you describe, if you’re not ready for it it feels like it’ll break your wrists haha. Definitely not for a regular street car.

 

[gsxitement]

Stumbled upon this while looking for front diff options for my Time Attack car, and wanted to acknowledge that after everything Tim has been through recently, he’s here trying to help the community. Tim is one of the best people in the DSM community and does everything he can to help. Even helped me earlier this year helping me figure out what parts work for my build. A true legend and pillar of DSMdom. Thank you for all you do.

 

[bastarddsm]

Op asks for help figuring out an LSD. Tim spends an hour typing out every possible detail to the whole job. Typical forum bs, "f***in weld it brah" No that's a bad idea. "Dude mine was fine" And then continue to fight it. And yall wonder why the people who actually know shit are dissappearing. Fairly certain a welded diff of any variety is not legal at any reasonable racing venue. In fact if IIRC, PPG used to offer a spool front diff for these cars. They don't any more. wonder why........

Don't weld your diff, don't talk about welding your diff, don't bring your car to the track with a welded diff. We are not the dirt people that build demo derby cars. When your shit heap breaks an axle and hits my car, we are gonna have problems.

OP now might be the time to upgrade to the later 27spline front axles. Gotta weigh that choice though, as you can't do the equal length half shaft mod easily with the late big axles.

My car is AWD but I still have a center diff. It used to spin 1 front tire bad. I spent the money for a quaife. Mostly because I had broken a front diff before, and I did not want to do that an ruin a brand new PPG set. Anyway, the car doesn't spin 1 front any more, and the quife is 100% invisible to daily driving. I have a cusco clutch type in my street trans now, and it clunks and pops a bit when turning sharp corners - that's likely due to my oil choice, but I want better shifting over smoother lsd. Anyway I put the cusco in my street trans as Tim advised that the quaife is tougher. So with what I've seen, I'd reccomend the quaife.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

Op asks for help figuring out an LSD. Tim spends an hour typing out every possible detail to the whole job. Typical forum bs, "f***in weld it brah" No that's a bad idea. "Dude mine was fine" And then continue to fight it. And yall wonder why the people who actually know shit are dissappearing. Fairly certain a welded diff of any variety is not legal at any reasonable racing venue. In fact if IIRC, PPG used to offer a spool front diff for these cars. They don't any more. wonder why........

Don't weld your diff, don't talk about welding your diff, don't bring your car to the track with a welded diff. We are not the dirt people that build demo derby cars. When your shit heap breaks an axle and hits my car, we are gonna have problems.

OP now might be the time to upgrade to the later 27spline front axles. Gotta weigh that choice though, as you can't do the equal length half shaft mod easily with the late big axles.

My car is AWD but I still have a center diff. It used to spin 1 front tire bad. I spent the money for a quaife. Mostly because I had broken a front diff before, and I did not want to do that an ruin a brand new PPG set. Anyway, the car doesn't spin 1 front any more, and the quife is 100% invisible to daily driving. I have a cusco clutch type in my street trans now, and it clunks and pops a bit when turning sharp corners - that's likely due to my oil choice, but I want better shifting over smoother lsd. Anyway I put the cusco in my street trans as Tim advised that the quaife is tougher. So with what I've seen, I'd reccomend the quaife.

Never did I run and tell anyone to weld their front diff, simply responded to a comment based on experience when someone unfamiliar with it thought it might be easier to drive than an awd with a center diff. Was actually pretty clear it’s probably not for them. Sorry my welded front differential that hasn’t been used in 3 years hurt your feelings so bad, it’s really not that serious.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Randomly, where would one even find a quaife/Cusco/aftermarket front diff for these cars anymore for purchase? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

Randomly, where would one even find a quaife/Cusco/aftermarket front diff for these cars anymore for purchase? Inquiring minds want to know.

Cusco RS and MZ available in many places
Kaaz SuperQ available in many places
Quaife - ExtremePSI, etc

 

[CrackedDSM]

Cusco RS and MZ available in many places
Kaaz SuperQ available in many places
Quaife - ExtremePSI, etc

Figures. The one thing I assume wouldn’t be made anymore is.

 

[twicks69]

I regularly sell Quaife and KAAZ still. I can get Cusco very easily as well.

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

Can anyone comment on plate count and overall effectiveness of an LSD? The Cusco front LSD has 12 plates, pretty sure the Kaaz has 12 as well. The Ralliart front LSD that I used to have had 6 plates total (3 friction discs on each side plus a spring, similar arrangement to Evo 2-9 rear diff but with less discs). I'm considering getting another Ralliart and rebuilding it, but I'm thinking it might be a little lame now. The homologated Ralliart diffs for the later Evos had 12 plates, and they stepped up to a 20-plate for the rear on the homologated Evo X diff. It seems plate count matters... is it for overall lockup/breakaway torque, for how quick it reacts, or ability to tune overall behavior?

 

[twicks69]

It is for adjustability more than how much more it locks up. You can fine tune the higher plate count to match the car; but again, that requires taking apart the gearbox to tear apart the diff and do the adjustment; which is something that people regularly racing their cars on rally / road course are doing anyways.

The Kaaz and Quaife are pretty much similar to each other. Typically they come at 100% lockup pre-assembled.

 

[Purple_T63]

Okay so someone mentioned it earlier, will I be able to run the half-shaft equal length axles if I upgrade my diff? I managed to get a halfshaft from a 90 tsi so I would be bummed out if I cant run it on the quaife LSD...