What race gas is everyone running?

[Archer Fabrications]

Speed factory ...... Hondas............. (If your talking about washington state's speed factory racing) I think if your swelling and unswelling your o rings (internal not external) that they would dry out and ruin your injector prematurely. I'd follow what FIC POSTS on their for sale ad for 2150s and not run any oxygenated fuels with them. On the other hand i remember a little while ago them saying they were developing an injector of the 2000 range thats compatible with all fuels. I hope that gets released before i upgrade. I'd run the vp import or q16 all day at the track.

 

[bastarddsm]

rewire kit. With your car, to run 9's you'll need 2 externals. You'll need 8ga run back, and 2 30A relays.

Try 100LL aviation fuel.

Here's some dyno testing I did last week.

MX4 is a 100oct unleaded oxygenated fuel.

The dip in the curve is because of the limitations of a mechanical advance mechanism. It needed a high speed retard, after about 6500.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Bastard, i dont plan to run 9s with 1000cc injectors hahaha.
Rewire may not do much for IDC but i feel confident if i am getting 100% idc at 30 psi with 1000s now, that i should be well with in 80% at 40psi with 2150s however, dual in tank wallys is foreseeable. Ive also considered cam gear driven fuel pump and nix all others.

 

[bastarddsm]

Bastard, i dont plan to run 9s with 1000cc injectors hahaha. An inline pump will be installed if it's needed a suppose. After 2150s and rewire.
Rewire may not do much for IDC but i feel confident if i am getting 100% idc at 30 psi, that i should be well with in 80% at 40psi with 2150s however, dual in tank wallys is foreseeable. Ive also considered cam gear driven fuel pump and nix all others.

Unless you get the car light your going to need 700+ hp. Your not getting that on a single 255, no matter what fuel. Run a 255 hard and it will draw 30AMPs. You need 8ga to run 2 of em and not get much voltage drop. Doesn't matter what fuel.

 

[race_me89]

Speed factory ...... Hondas............. (If your talking about washington state's speed factory racing) I think if your swelling and unswelling your o rings (internal not external) that they would dry out and ruin your injector prematurely. I'd follow what FIC POSTS on their for sale ad for 2150s and not run any oxygenated fuels with them. On the other hand i remember a little while ago them saying they were developing an injector of the 2000 range thats compatible with all fuels. I hope that gets released before i upgrade. I'd run the vp import or q16 all day at the track.

Yea i would make the same prediction of the injector not lasting as long as it should. I also know that if I'm trying something diffrent to get the upper hand at the track it is probably going to cost money. I have heard many things about speed factory but I have also seen their car go 8.0 at MIR On a 72mm. Chris miller racing also went 8.006 last pass of last season n a 72mm, I also know miller was on FTW. I bring these guys up because they are going where others are having a hard time following. Maybe you think it's funny cause they have Hondas but at the end of the day knowledge is power. If there is a better injector coming out then all the power to the until it does working with what is available seems to be the only option for me.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

You dont see honda car motors running 0-204mph in 6.5 seconds on a 1320ft strip. anyway back on topic.

 

[race_me89]

Yea i would make the same prediction of the injector not lasting as long as it should. I also know that if I'm trying something diffrent to get the upper hand at the track it is probably going to cost money. I have heard many things about speed factory but I have also seen their car go 8.0 at MIR On a 72mm. Chris miller racing also went 8.006 last pass of last season n a 72mm, I also know miller was on FTW. I bring these guys up because they are going where others are having a hard time following. Maybe you think it's funny cause they have Hondas but at the end of the day knowledge is power. If there is a better injector coming out then all the power to the until it does working with what is available seems to be the only option for me.

Btw the T1 test by Tony Pallo is on ID 2200

 

[OstarMotorsport]

We have a explored quite a few different types but ethanol seems to be the winner. E85, E98 and Ignite are our choices.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

What was your runner up to ethanol? For those of us that can't get it consistantly.

 

[needbooost]

So if your dsm is completely stock and you run c16 wouldnt it make you slower because the lack of pressure in your cylinders?? Correct me if im wrong but woudnt such high octane make you fowel plugs and just run slugish over all at low rpm? Also would race gas be effective with afrs ranging from 14.7:1-11:1

 

[Archer Fabrications]

The gas isn't any less dense? Do you notice a difference running 87oct and 94? Not much a difference. If you have a turbo dsm and a way to tune it, race gas allows for higher boost, more timing advance, and somewhat leaner afrs. If you dont tune for it it will do nothing. As far as being a stock car, leaded fuels will eff up all your emissions stuff.

 

[1glaserfwd]

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Thank god for 55 gallon drums. We have to get this from 400 miles away in boise. These are E98 that we mix our own E85. 255.00 for 55 gallons of E98 wayyyyyyyyyy cheaper than race fuel!!

 

[Archer Fabrications]

And youll burn through it twice as fast!

 

[1glaserfwd]

Haha no 20% faster!!

 

[JusMX141]

If my memory serves me (don't have a drum in stock right now) even VP notes on the drum not to store it in the car for extended periods.

100% correct.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

okay guys well i have a few updates here and a few questions as well..

i was at the race track and they have the pro racing fuels brand. i asked the dealer and they said ALL of their fuels contain oxygen. they didn't know MTBE was. anyway i ended up using their mark 2 110 oct at the track only5 gals added to 3/4 tank of 94 and had alright results was fighting leaning issues...

Here's where im at now. i just got 5 gallons of VP C16 finally something consistent i can run every time im going to the track

i have a couple questions about C16 or race gas in general. i plan to keep my street tune for the most part and target anywhere from 11.1-11.5 AFR, should i targer leaner? also my timing is -2 on peak torque and ramps up to 7* by 8k RPM. i have never ran/tuned leaded race gas so im pretty excited to make some power at the track!

should i go with my current tune and just up boost gradually each run til i reach my target 35-38psi? and not touch timing? or would you guys recommend an evo map for race gas or something like that?

kinda curious how you guys go about tuning race gas any any pointers you might have. is it basically the same as pump? target the same AFRs as pump and up timing the same way you would with pump?

 

[Bud92gsx]

Did you sell your 1000s?

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Did you ever get your mechanical timing sorted 100%? Running retarded -2* peak timing with that much fuel being dumped is a problem waiting to happen. Your EGTs are probably insanely high.

 

[bastarddsm]

Start at low boost and see what timing and AFR gets you power. Your probably going to want more timing and leaner AFR's than pump.

Use that data, and work your way up.

I would also be reading sparkplugs.

Start with fresh ones that way you can make sure your timing and fuel is even across board.

Then just put 1 fresh one in per pass.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

From what I recall (that lap top has since died) I was running 93/Toluene plus Water/Meth with AFRs around 11.5-11.8 and my peak timing was in the low/mid teens at 37-38psi on the last setup. ~8.0:1CR, just about the same size turbo you are running and the cams were a one-off given to me to test for a group in MI (circa january 2009) that was going to start making them and wound up later working with the DSMGraveyard folks.. specs escape me but they were "bigger" in lift and .050 duration than pretty much all the advertised 272s including Kelford. I still have them somewhere..

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Did you sell your 1000s?

yep

Did you ever get your mechanical timing sorted 100%? Running retarded -2* peak timing with that much fuel being dumped is a problem waiting to happen. Your EGTs are probably insanely high.

yep mechanical timing issue is old news. still no EGT gauge. but i said -2* at peak torque then ramps up to 8* PEAK at 7k

Start at low boost and see what timing and AFR gets you power. Your probably going to want more timing and leaner AFR's than pump.

Use that data, and work your way up.

I would also be reading sparkplugs.

Start with fresh ones that way you can make sure your timing and fuel is even across board.

Then just put 1 fresh one in per pass.

this is what i was planning to do but wanted to be sure, dont have fresh plugs at the moment though to read them so itll have to be through the logs

 

[bastarddsm]

Go buy some plugs so you can see what's going on.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

anyone look at the log yet?

edit: just realized i didnt load one.


more info here:
http://www.dsmlink.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78087

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

That is much better looking than the last log you sent me. A very stable fuel like C16 may not like how little timing you've got in there, and leaning out a bit wouldn't hurt.. but with that said I would start with the tune you've got if you are comfortable with it!

You may have to change some of the VE table cells as VE may fall of quicker up top with the boost turned up on the .70 T3 housing.. but it sounds like if you are comfortable and have a good fuel in the tank its time to creep up on the boost.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

That is much better looking than the last log you sent me. A very stable fuel like C16 may not like how little timing you've got in there, and leaning out a bit wouldn't hurt.. but with that said I would start with the tune you've got if you are comfortable with it!

You may have to change some of the VE table cells as VE may fall of quicker up top with the boost turned up on the .70 T3 housing.. but it sounds like if you are comfortable and have a good fuel in the tank its time to creep up on the boost.

yeah i didnt want the VE really over 100 but thats just what happened i guess. as far as timing. should i run the evo8 mod 1 map? just as is on the C16?

i just ripped out my seat anchor bolt on accident now im pissed. now i only have 3 bolts to bolt the driver seat in trying to figure out what now (made thread about it with pix)