2G What pistons should I get??

[LSM]

I know this question has been posted countless times on here, but I haven't been able to find anything more recent than 2015! I just bought a Manley Billet 100mm Crank (The stronger one of the two they make) and I have Manley Turbo Tuff I-Beam rods. It looks like I will be pushing around 650hp - 700hp to the wheels without the nitrous and anywhere from 725hp to 1025hp with the nitrous depending on which jets I decide to use. So obviously I'm going to be pushing a decent amount of power, also, this will be my daily driver. I currently have a Precision 55/58 Turbo with a .82AR Turbine Housing and plan on pushing about 30-35psi on the turbo and possibly going with a larger turbo in the near future, something like a 62/62 or something close to that. The block is at a shop about to have the cylinders bored to 86mm, so +1mm just to clarify. The head is mostly stock besides being professionally ported to a bit larger than the 1G intake and exhaust port size and some Kiggley "street" valves and springs, and GSC lifters, so no super high revs.....obviously that wouldn't be too good to be doing with the 2.3L stroker anyways!

So here's my problem, I wanted to go with either Manley Turbo Tuff or Weisco 1400HD Pistons, but Manley doesn't make the -6mm offset pistons in the Turbo Tuff platform and Weisco doesn't make the -6mm offset pistons in their 1400HD Piston platform.....so what the hell am I supposed to do??! I'm stressing over this pretty badly because now I am sitting on about $3200 between the rods and the crank and now I can't seem to find the pistons I need to support the power I will be set up for! Can anybody give me any info on what I should do? Anybody know what other pistons are very good and will handle high horsepower reliably? Please help me get this figured out ASAP as the shop is waiting for me to get the pistons so they can finish the block! Any information will be greatly appreciated!!

 

[dustyboner]

JE Pistons
Ultra series is their top of the line. If they don't have what your looking for in an off the shelf piston, they can make custom pistons for you.

 

[DSMPT]

You can find most of off the shelf piston kit in the link below.
If you don't find a piston kit that has your desired spec, a custom kit would be the way to go. Just tell the vendor what spec you would need, or I can also help you if you PM me.
P.S. Filling the block would be a really good idea since you have 86.00mm cylinder bore and stroker. If not, the cylinders would possibly get cracked soon with the power level you mentioned above.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/a...s-crank-bearings-part-numbers-for-dsm.533019/

 

[dustyboner]

P.S. Filling the block would be a really good idea since you have 86.00mm cylinder bore and stroker. If not, the cylinders would possibly get cracked soon with the power level you mentioned above.

what about some Darton sleeves. They can handle 1000hp on honda k-series engines. I would think they would be just as strong on a 4g

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[DSMPT]

what about some Darton sleeves. They can handle 1000hp on honda k-series engines. I would think they would be just as strong on a 4g

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Yes, it would be beneficial if he doesn't want to fill the block. But it would cost more money and work, probably look for another block in good condition with standard cylinder bore or filling the block would be cheaper. In my opinion, the Darton sleeve is good especially if the cylinders are already cut and you want to go back to the stock bore diameter, like repair purpose. But if the cylinders are in good condition and still have the stock diameter, it wouldn't make much difference on 4g63.

 

[twicks69]

CP and Diamond should both make one, or a custom one for you. Considering my custom stroker pistons are from both of those companies.

 

[LSM]

You can find most of off the shelf piston kit in the link below.
If you don't find a piston kit that has your desired spec, a custom kit would be the way to go. Just tell the vendor what spec you would need, or I can also help you if you PM me.
P.S. Filling the block would be a really good idea since you have 86.00mm cylinder bore and stroker. If not, the cylinders would possibly get cracked soon with the power level you mentioned above.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/a...s-crank-bearings-part-numbers-for-dsm.533019/

Well the only reason I was gonna go with the 86mm bore was for a little more power, but if that means I'm gonna have to fill the block or add sleeves or something, then I may just pass on that idea. What about just an 85.5mm bore? Would I still need to add some block support? I was wanting to bore it a little just to make damn sure the cylinders are good the whole way through ya know! They said they're in spec at the stock bore, very slight variances but nothing major, I would just prefer to have them all 100% in spec with all the money I've dumped into this build! But if any kind of bore is gonna mean I will have to add more crap then I'm gonna scrap that idea altogether.....but then I still need stronger pistons! Weisco and Manley don't make the better ones in any size bore! What do you guys think are better, Weisco pistons or Manley, or another brand??!

 

[LSM]

CP and Diamond should both make one, or a custom one for you. Considering my custom stroker pistons are from both of those companies.

Aaaaaahhhh Tim, whats up buddy?! This is Spencer, the pain in the a** that emails you all the time and the one who bought the QUarter Masters twin plate clutch from you, you remember me?! CP and Diamond? Where can I find those being sold? The pistons don't HAVE to be Manley or Weisco, I just need pistons that will handle anywhere from 650hp to 1050hp so that if I decide to get more mods or spray more, I won't have to change pistons again ya know!

 

[LSM]

Yes, it would be beneficial if he doesn't want to fill the block. But it would cost more money and work, probably look for another block in good condition with standard cylinder bore or filling the block would be cheaper. In my opinion, the Darton sleeve is good especially if the cylinders are already cut and you want to go back to the stock bore diameter, like repair purpose. But if the cylinders are in good condition and still have the stock diameter, it wouldn't make much difference on 4g63.

While I've got you here, I am not at all familiar with filling the blocks! I have heard about it, concrete filled I'm assuming? How the hell is that done and doesn't that add a bit of extra weight too? What are the downsides to doing that? Anything bad long term? Help me update my DSM knowledge haha!

 

[LSM]

......and one other thing.....does anybody know why the hell I can't get this site to alert mey email of any responses or posts that I'm following? I already set it all up through the settings on this site, but still no alerts.....then I get sidetracked and don't answer people for days! It's driving me crazy!!

 

[twicks69]

Is this a 6 bolt or 7 bolt 4G63 w/ 100mm crank? What bore size? What wrist pin size?

CP catalog - Page 85 and 86 has shelf options - https://cp-carrillo-catalog.cld.bz/...ection/CP-Carrillo-Product-Catalog/85/#zoom=z

I am able to get CP no problem, they are all special order and take a few weeks from the manufacturer to get. Custom ones run a bit higher price. They also have several options for pin material (page 179) and surface finish, as well as coating options.

Diamond pistons - https://diamondracing.net/c-682-pistons-mitsubishi-4g63.html

As for piston sizing, I would go with the smallest possible bore size that keeps the most material on the block so that you can service it again in the future. You aren't going to get big gains out of a 0.020" overbore vs a 0.040" overbore other than weakening the cylinder walls. Run 0.5psi more boost and offset the power level that way.

As for compression ratio, stick with the 8.5-9.0:1 range. Again, easier to throw a bit more boost at it to offset the power potential of an 8.5:1 vs. a 10.5:1 and more friendly with ignition timing.

I would not fill the block unless you are dedicating it as a track only car.


As for account notification preferences, go to: https://www.dsmtuners.com/account/preferences , then change your options and SAVE.

 

[DSMPT]

Well the only reason I was gonna go with the 86mm bore was for a little more power, but if that means I'm gonna have to fill the block or add sleeves or something, then I may just pass on that idea. What about just an 85.5mm bore? Would I still need to add some block support? I was wanting to bore it a little just to make damn sure the cylinders are good the whole way through ya know! They said they're in spec at the stock bore, very slight variances but nothing major, I would just prefer to have them all 100% in spec with all the money I've dumped into this build! But if any kind of bore is gonna mean I will have to add more crap then I'm gonna scrap that idea altogether.....but then I still need stronger pistons! Weisco and Manley don't make the better ones in any size bore! What do you guys think are better, Weisco pistons or Manley, or another brand??!

So your block still has standard 85.00mm bore and still in good condition? If so, DO NOT make it to 86.00mm. You don't get much gain by that and you are actually killing the margin for further use. I recommend to stay where you are as small as you can. The gain you would have from the over bore is very minimum, and instead of that little gain, you would lose the durability and the block life span. And if speaking very strictly, larger bore = more knock. So technically if you would go with smaller bore and add a bit more of boost would give you more gain and safer.
Why 86.00mm, of course in general less material = less strength. And it is coming from people's experience. Maybe you think it's just a little difference but the majority of people who have cracked the cylinders say it was 86.00mm bore or larger, including myself. I have cracked a couple of times and all cases were with 86.00mm and when boost exceeds 35-40 psi.
Of course, it would depend on condition. So even with 85.00mm bore you may break it but I am speaking here is general things and experiences.
And for a high power drag racing engine, filled block and o-ring would always be a good idea, doesn't matter what bore size you have.

As for the pistons, like what Tim recommends is a good idea. When I customize, I always do it with CP or Wiseco. But it does not mean the other brands are not good, they can also customize and I have sold numerous Manley, JE piston kits, too. And I have never received one single claim for their quality. In my opinion, it would be personal preference according to experiences, since everyone has different idea and experience. So you just read more people's experiences here and should decide one.

While I've got you here, I am not at all familiar with filling the blocks! I have heard about it, concrete filled I'm assuming? How the hell is that done and doesn't that add a bit of extra weight too? What are the downsides to doing that? Anything bad long term? Help me update my DSM knowledge haha!

You don't add much weight by filling the block because you would have less coolant, too. But obviously you would have less cooling for cylinders since you would fill the coolant passage in the block, basically that is a method only for drag racing. It depends how much you would fill though.

 

[LSM]

Is this a 6 bolt or 7 bolt 4G63 w/ 100mm crank? What bore size? What wrist pin size?

CP catalog - Page 85 and 86 has shelf options - https://cp-carrillo-catalog.cld.bz/...ection/CP-Carrillo-Product-Catalog/85/#zoom=z

I am able to get CP no problem, they are all special order and take a few weeks from the manufacturer to get. Custom ones run a bit higher price. They also have several options for pin material (page 179) and surface finish, as well as coating options.

Diamond pistons - https://diamondracing.net/c-682-pistons-mitsubishi-4g63.html

As for piston sizing, I would go with the smallest possible bore size that keeps the most material on the block so that you can service it again in the future. You aren't going to get big gains out of a 0.020" overbore vs a 0.040" overbore other than weakening the cylinder walls. Run 0.5psi more boost and offset the power level that way.

As for compression ratio, stick with the 8.5-9.0:1 range. Again, easier to throw a bit more boost at it to offset the power potential of an 8.5:1 vs. a 10.5:1 and more friendly with ignition timing.

I would not fill the block unless you are dedicating it as a track only car.


As for account notification preferences, go to: https://www.dsmtuners.com/account/preferences , then change your options and SAVE.

It's a 7 bolt.....bore size still up in the air along with wrist pin size. I would like to do a .5mm bore if possible without having to add sleeves or fill the block or any of that crap, and I was wrong, I do see that Manley makes them in the Turbo Tuff version for the Evo 4-9, but the compression ratio they're claiming is 10.0 which is way too high! 9.0 is a bit too high in my opinion, but I'm starting to wonder if I have any other options......I did look at the Diamond pistons and they seem to have between a 9 and 10 comp. ratio, the CE says 8.5 but doesn't specify any HP range on those, I don't see if they have a stronges series or higher HP series......

 

[LSM]

So your block still has standard 85.00mm bore and still in good condition? If so, DO NOT make it to 86.00mm. You don't get much gain by that and you are actually killing the margin for further use. I recommend to stay where you are as small as you can. The gain you would have from the over bore is very minimum, and instead of that little gain, you would lose the durability and the block life span. And if speaking very strictly, larger bore = more knock. So technically if you would go with smaller bore and add a bit more of boost would give you more gain and safer.
Why 86.00mm, of course in general less material = less strength. And it is coming from people's experience. Maybe you think it's just a little difference but the majority of people who have cracked the cylinders say it was 86.00mm bore or larger, including myself. I have cracked a couple of times and all cases were with 86.00mm and when boost exceeds 35-40 psi.
Of course, it would depend on condition. So even with 85.00mm bore you may break it but I am speaking here is general things and experiences.
And for a high power drag racing engine, filled block and o-ring would always a good idea, doesn't matter what bore size you have.

As for the pistons, like what Tim recommend is a good idea. When I customize, I always do it with CP or Wiseco. But it does not mean the other brands are not good, they can also customize and I have sold numerous Manley, JE piston kits, too. And I have never received one single claim for their quality. In my opinion, it would be personal preference according to experiences, since everyone has different idea and experience. So you just read more people's experiences here and should decide one.

You don't add much weight by filling the block because you would have less coolant, too. But obviously you would have less cooling for cylinders since you would fill the coolant passage in the block, basically that is a method only for drag racing. It depends how much you would fill though.

I fully agree with you, that's why I made this post, to see what pistons people have had good experiences with! It's looking like I might go with CP, but I'll have to do a little more research just because I don't see any HP rating claims from them, or at least not where I've looked so far!

And yeah, this will be my daily driver so filling the block is out of the question! Thanks for the info man!

 

[LSM]

CP and Diamond should both make one, or a custom one for you. Considering my custom stroker pistons are from both of those companies.

Hey Tim, sorry to bug you but I have confidence in your answers.....not that I don't trust the other peoples answers, I just didn't want to send this message to each one of them separately so they would get the message alerts! So I found out that Manley makes the Turbo Tuff pistons with the -6 offset for the 2.3L block, but they're making 9.1 compression with 85.5 cylinders. Again just to clarify, since the shop said the cylinders were just a hair off of straight 85mm spec, I would just feel a little better with boring to 85.5 so I know for sure the cylinders ate 100% straight! I'm really hoping I wouldn't need to do sleeves or some other reinforcement with just a 0.5mm overbore, or would I? But my main question is the 9.1 compression ratio.....I know that I want to stick with as close to the stock 8.5 comp ratio for boost reasons, but I haven't found any pistons that can handle between 700hp and 1000hp and also have any lower compression ratio than 9.1! I think the CP pistons were lower, but I'm pretty sure those were their standard pistons, I have no idea what HP specs those can hold. Do you think 9.1 comp ratio on 35lb of boost would be ok? And that's as far as the turbo I have now, I will probably go a little bigger in the future....I just want to make sure that the 9.1 ratio isn't going to be too high to restrict me significantly on boost you know what I mean? What do you think?

 

[LSM]

Is this a 6 bolt or 7 bolt 4G63 w/ 100mm crank? What bore size? What wrist pin size?

CP catalog - Page 85 and 86 has shelf options - https://cp-carrillo-catalog.cld.bz/...ection/CP-Carrillo-Product-Catalog/85/#zoom=z

I am able to get CP no problem, they are all special order and take a few weeks from the manufacturer to get. Custom ones run a bit higher price. They also have several options for pin material (page 179) and surface finish, as well as coating options.

Diamond pistons - https://diamondracing.net/c-682-pistons-mitsubishi-4g63.html

As for piston sizing, I would go with the smallest possible bore size that keeps the most material on the block so that you can service it again in the future. You aren't going to get big gains out of a 0.020" overbore vs a 0.040" overbore other than weakening the cylinder walls. Run 0.5psi more boost and offset the power level that way.

As for compression ratio, stick with the 8.5-9.0:1 range. Again, easier to throw a bit more boost at it to offset the power potential of an 8.5:1 vs. a 10.5:1 and more friendly with ignition timing.

I would not fill the block unless you are dedicating it as a track only car.


As for account notification preferences, go to: https://www.dsmtuners.com/account/preferences , then change your options and SAVE.

Sorry, I meant to also say that those pistons that Manley makes are technically for the Evo 4-9, but I'm pretty damn sure they would be fine in my 2G and the guy from Manley said he thinks they would be fine too! Just throwing that in there in case there's something we don't know about and they won't work for whatever reason!

CP and Diamond should both make one, or a custom one for you. Considering my custom stroker pistons are from both of those companies.

Sorry, I meant to also say that those pistons that Manley makes are technically for the Evo 4-9, but I'm pretty damn sure they would be fine in my 2G and the guy from Manley said he thinks they would work too! Just throwing that in there in case there's something we don't know about and they won't work for whatever reason!

 

[LSM]

Is this a 6 bolt or 7 bolt 4G63 w/ 100mm crank? What bore size? What wrist pin size?

CP catalog - Page 85 and 86 has shelf options - https://cp-carrillo-catalog.cld.bz/...ection/CP-Carrillo-Product-Catalog/85/#zoom=z

I am able to get CP no problem, they are all special order and take a few weeks from the manufacturer to get. Custom ones run a bit higher price. They also have several options for pin material (page 179) and surface finish, as well as coating options.

Diamond pistons - https://diamondracing.net/c-682-pistons-mitsubishi-4g63.html

As for piston sizing, I would go with the smallest possible bore size that keeps the most material on the block so that you can service it again in the future. You aren't going to get big gains out of a 0.020" overbore vs a 0.040" overbore other than weakening the cylinder walls. Run 0.5psi more boost and offset the power level that way.

As for compression ratio, stick with the 8.5-9.0:1 range. Again, easier to throw a bit more boost at it to offset the power potential of an 8.5:1 vs. a 10.5:1 and more friendly with ignition timing.

I would not fill the block unless you are dedicating it as a track only car.


As for account notification preferences, go to: https://www.dsmtuners.com/account/preferences , then change your options and SAVE.

So hey man, I talked to one of the technical guys at CP and told him my cars projected specs and he told me I would need some really strong pistons custom made. He said he would recommend part# SC7253 and they would run approx. $220 each.
Here's what he emailed me:
"Hello how are you, it sounds you need HEAVY DUTY PISTONS & WRISTPINS …
That will be bout $220.00 each pistons // HD pins // RINGS / LOCLS
6 TO 7 weeks to make"
I have no idea what coatings I should get or any of that stuff. All I know is that I think I wanna go with 85.5mm bore with a -6 wrist pin offset for the 2.3L stroker, and I want them to be as close to 8.5 compression ratio as possible! Can you get me these pistons ordered with the correct specs at roughly the same price? Dude sent me a form to fill out but I don't know the specs I need for more than half of the crap the form is asking for! I'm sure you would know a whole hell of a lot better than I do on how to fill these special order forms out! If you can get these for me at about the same pricing and can order them for me knowing the right specs, I will gladly purchase them from you! Let me know when you get a chance ok, thanks man!

 

[twicks69]

I would need the pin and lock part numbers if they are sold individually from the SC7253 pistons, and then contact the manufacturer for a quote, along with cost of coatings.

 

[LSM]

I would need the pin and lock part numbers if they are sold individually from the SC7253 pistons, and then contact the manufacturer for a quote, along with cost of coatings.

Supposedly the guy said that part includes the pins, rings, and locks. At least that's what he said in the email he sent me that I pasted above ^ He didn't specify about the coatings tho. If you would be willing to contact them with whatever coatings you think would be the best options and let me know, that would be cool! Or hell, I could even forward you the email conversation we were having and you could basically let him know who you are and take over the estimate from what him and I had gathered so far.....with your pricing of course! It also has the special order form in the conversation with some of the fields already filled in, just so you know. Whatever way is easier for you man, I'm good with either! I just don't know enough about the technical aspects of crap like this to order these pistons on my own, it would make my life a lot easier if I just bought what special order pistons I need from you ya know! And of course you make some money, so then were both happy haha! Again, whatever works better or easier for you!

 

[Cameron Morison]

Supposedly the guy said that part includes the pins, rings, and locks. At least that's what he said in the email he sent me that I pasted above ^ He didn't specify about the coatings tho. If you would be willing to contact them with whatever coatings you think would be the best options and let me know, that would be cool! Or hell, I could even forward you the email conversation we were having and you could basically let him know who you are and take over the estimate from what him and I had gathered so far.....with your pricing of course! It also has the special order form in the conversation with some of the fields already filled in, just so you know. Whatever way is easier for you man, I'm good with either! I just don't know enough about the technical aspects of crap like this to order these pistons on my own, it would make my life a lot easier if I just bought what special order pistons I need from you ya know! And of course you make some money, so then were both happy haha! Again, whatever works better or easier for you!

Did you end up with the CP pistons? I'm looking at them for my rebuild this time around.