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What factors made you crazy about DSM?

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DSMPT

DSM Wiseman
2,796
2,497
Jun 12, 2014
Japan / Mexico, Arizona
I have a friend who is writing articles about cars in Japan. And I told her about the DSM scene in North America (since "DSM" is not common in Japan). It's still active and many people love DSM and racing with a DSM. She now is interested/wondering why or what still makes people crazy about DSM.
I told her about "my guesses" below. I have been living in North America many years but I think there is something I have missed since I am originally from Japan. So, I would like to ask your thoughts.
What factors made you crazy about DSM?

So far I told her :
- Because of its potential. 4G63 can easily make a good amount of power with factory parts and a little modifications.
- The existence of turbo and AWD model.
- Galant VR4 was sold but was limited and EVO 1/2/3 were not officially sold in North America. So, a lot of people who wanted a AWD-turbo-chargeded car back in the early 90s to early 2000s went with DSM.
- Built/Made in USA (I think this is one big factor)
- 80s and 90s Mitsubishi's concept (or the way they were going) just fitted with many North American people's style.

And also she would like to know about the engine sound of Paul Walker's green Eclipse in F&F 1 in the video in the link below. It's a 420A Eclipse and it has been said the engine sound in the movie was Honda CR-X's sound. She told me that some people believe that the engine sound was from a 4G63 and she wants to confirm it.
To me, it's pretty much Honda's engine sound, at least not 4G63. There are many infos in Google about it and most of pages say that the sound was from a CR-X. But does anyone have some real info about this?
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Hiroshi, I think you covered the biggest points very well.

For me, the interest also started with the first Fast and Furious, and shortly after, the NFS: Underground 1 and 2 games. I was born in 1995, however, these cars were never seen on our roads until much later. So my first experience with them was literally from seeing them on a screen. I just thought they looked really cool, cooler than a Lambo or a Ferrari. I guess I owe that initial interest to the movie and the games, for had it not been for them, I would probably never have heard of the Eclipse/DSM, but this is also based on where I'm from.

But personally, the top 3 factors that I love about DSMs in general are that they're US-built (like 90% pure American), the almost infinite potential to build upon them and improve them in any way you like, and of course, the overall shape and beautiful but also aggressive styling. Another very important but often overlooked fact is that when the 2G first appeared in 1995, it had the world's top coefficient of drag (Cd) of 0.29! We're talking production car stats, not some prototype or exotic one-off supercar. With a bit more horsepower and some lowering, the 2G can easily reach 300 km/h. I bet they would have further decreased that number if they actually made some shielding under the engine to cover it up.

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My infatuation is the fact that the cars are sleek but still looked upon as "just another import", but can put a good spankin on American Muscle,(and I'm a true Chevy guy), bikes and lots of if imports. Motors are a STOUT piece and aftermarket parts still available and new parts still being made.
 
The turbo AWD platform is what reeled me in at first. The community and all the support for the platform is what pretty much anchored me to these things. The cars are a blast, yet can be challenging at the same time. The people and the cars have taught me a lot through the years, and I appreciate that. It's also super addicting when you finally get to race what you've built and accomplish some of the goals you had set out for.
 
My freshman year of high school was 96 so the timing was just right for me to fall in love with 2g’s Since they where brand new. I loved them purely for their looks both inside and out. One of my well off friends had a red 97 bought for him when he started driving and after cruising around with him throughout high school I knew I had to have one. At the time it had absolutely nothing to do with performance since I was way more into stereos than going fast at the time. It wasn’t till years later after owning my first 420a powered 2g that I actually started caring about performance and realized the potential of these cars. That is the humble beginnings of why I may need to one day postpone my retirement for a couple years.
 
Back in the day, having a turbo/awd car was gold if you wanted to street race. If you wanted to build a Honda, for example, you would need thousands of dollars just to turbocharge the car whereas DSMs already came with a turbo system that you could upgrade piece by piece. Most young guys didn't have 5k to buy a turbo system back then. DSMs were really convenient for us young guys who didn't have much money. On top of that, you had an awd car that you could launch easily anywhere you went. You didn't have to have slicks or need to do burnouts. You hit the gas and the car just went straight and fast.
 
I was into V8s in the 90s, had a few Mustangs. A friend was into GNs and he eventually got a Typhoon which turned me on to the potential of an AWD launch and turbo power. I'd always liked the 1GB Talon looks, more classy and sporty than the typical Honda/Sentra SE-R econobox look. And the fighter jet cockpit inspired dash layout of them was fun to drive in. Then in the mid 90s, you started to see 1Gs with basic bolt-ons tearing up V8s at the track. I got my first 1G in '96, and with an MBC, exhaust, and K&N there weren't many cars that could touch it (especially when you leave 3 car lengths at the line). For awhile, DSMs were much like GNs with the "go fast with class" motto, while the Honda guys were gutting their cars and building race cars, DSMs could be full weight, full interior, street tires, and roll up to the track, have fun, and drive home with the AC on and the stereo playing. That was a big part of the appeal in the early days, the 4G would just take whatever you threw at it. A friend's bone stock 7 bolt 1G engine went countless low 11s on a simple 20g setup with a VPC and 550s.
 
For awhile, DSMs were much like GNs with the "go fast with class" motto


I really...really wish we'd go back to this. There are so many gutted, "caged" DSMs trying to sell with no engine/trans/ecu/anything for $5k, or everyone wants a drag race build and gives up.

I miss the days of seeing these cars rip with full interior and working A/C.
 
I really...really wish we'd go back to this. There are so many gutted, "caged" DSMs trying to sell with no engine/trans/ecu/anything for $5k, or everyone wants a drag race build and gives up.

I miss the days of seeing these cars rip with full interior and working A/C.
Agreed. With my car I decided to go crazy but ONLY under the hood. Every other aspect, aside of my crap paint job, was to appear and sound bone stock. Should I have better brakes and safety stuff, of course. If I go to the track I probably wouldn't even be allowed to make a pass. But people so easily look at the wrong stuff like cages, race seats, 10 gauges, fuel cell, remove passenger seat, etc etc etc meanwhile the car won't even make it around the block. If I'm able to max out a 37r with boost into the 50s and the car looks/sounds passably stock, then none of that crap is needed and it's really a matter of getting the hobby wrong desiring attention rather than actually making the thing perform better than stock. Sure, maybe a lot of people start with someone else's mess, but the foundation of the hobby is to keep the car as good as stock and improve upon that. Pulling the AC and rear seats and cruise control and then riveting random body panels on goes completely against that and is unnecessary.

In the same breath I'll say that I actually like when people do that stuff, because the more of that going on, the more I hope they want to do a 2-3 pull against me. I literally hunt for cars like that LOL.
 
Thanks for everyone.
These opinions and personal experiences/cases are what I wanted to hear! I will tell my friend about these.
Me, I saw a gull-wing 1G Eclipse in a TV series in Japan in the end of 80s and I liked it since I like the cars that have retractable headlight but I never imagined to own one in my life because in Japan DSM is a kind of rare. In the early 2000s, I came to north america and realized that there are many dsms on the streets. But I was still traveling many countries so I couldn't plan to have a car yet. in 2005, I finally decided to live where I live now, then I picked-up a AWD 1G in Arizona and it was way cheaper than now! Since then I have been working on dsms.
 
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Had to read the title twice, to make sure it didn’t ask “What factors about your DSM make you crazy?” That’s a long list...

My son’s first car was a 2ga Awd Talon that got brought home on a trailer with 6 large boxes of parts. Obviously we became quickly familiar with DSM construction, and came to (mostly) appreciate it. But when we did get the car together and drove it, we couldn’t stop smiling. It’s nice that the cars come in so many variations, with so many aftermarket parts available. There’s something for everybody.

There is also the opportunity to tell the DSM history to those that don’t know the marque. Our Spyder was parked in front of our house last summer, when a husband and wife walked by. I heard her say, “That’s cute. What kind of car is it?” The husband hesitated. I listened carefully because I knew the answer was going to be interesting. “It’s a Porsche” he said with authority, and they walked on.

But what seals the deal is this DSM community here on Tuners. We never would have finished that first one, and several other project DSMs, if it weren’t for the help of so many patient and experienced members.
 
I really...really wish we'd go back to this. There are so many gutted, "caged" DSMs trying to sell with no engine/trans/ecu/anything for $5k, or everyone wants a drag race build and gives up.

I miss the days of seeing these cars rip with full interior and working A/C.

Agreed. My first car was a '93 AWD Talon 5spd, tan leather, no sunroof. When I got it, there were still plenty of nice ones around, but by '07 I was frequently told it was the cleanest DSM they'd ever seen by locals. I always refused to gut the car or do a cage, it was always a street car. I daily drove it up until '02 when I changed jobs and bought a new Civic Si to drive to work. Then, in '07 it was wrecked when someone pulled out in front of me.

It's the longest I've ever owned a car. I moved on to a '90 champagne Talon and then an '03 EVO after that, but then in '09 a close friend parted out his 1G that was nearly identical to mine. I ended up buying his shell and building another setup. It was already caged with a carbon hood, no HVAC, Corbeau fixed back seats, etc. People think it's my original car, but I've rarely driven it, maybe a couple thousand miles tops since I bought it in '09. I put power steering back in, swapped the seats for EVO 8 Recaros, did all of the chassis bushings, outlander brakes, as much as I could to make it more fun on the street, but it's just not the same. Between no HVAC and climbing over the cage and dealing with the 5 pt harness, I'm just not motivated enough to drive it much.

The flip side is reliability, of course. Much of the reason why people started removing weight and running slicks was to keep the drivetrains together. At the track, I'd much rather have this car than my first.
 
From the first time I saw a 2g I was hooked on the styling. It’s sad now days at my local tracks, events how many people come up and ask what the car is. I still own my first ever DSM I purchased bone stock back in the 2000s. It’s what I would call a “hot” street car. 100% full interior, body clean and stock just rims, but running a built 1/2 filled motor on corn.
 
I used to drive an old '68 Ford Fairlane 500 convertible with a 302 4 barrel, and I also had an F250 4x4 with a big block 428. Those both had older contact point ignition, drum brakes, and typical Ford maintenance/reliability issues.

I watched Cannonball run when I was young and I thought the Starion was the coolest car in the movie. Then the 1g Eclipse came out. My friend had an RS Laser turbo. He was always smoking me in my Ford Fairlane. I drive it a couple times and really liked it. Then the 2g came out. I decided it was time to get a modern car. So I traded in my Fairlane convertible on a slightly used '95 GST fully loaded red with gray leather interior.

I had the best time of my life. Suddenly, I owned a car that had cruise control, A/C, power steering, tilt wheel, nice gauge cluster, and got 30+ mpg along with huge handling, braking, acceleration and cornering improvements. It was super comfortable to drive for short or long distances, and looked great. It was all stock except for a K&N air filter. It would beat my buddy's new '95 Mustang GT 5.0 off the line first to third until at higher speeds he would pass me because of the V8's superior torque.

I eventually traded it in on a new Montero 4x4 because I got married and had kids. But I never owned another car that performed all around as well as the Eclipse. Until now. I have my heavily modded '98 GST! Long live DSM!
 
According to Craig Lieberman's video, the sounds for the Fast and Furious Eclipse were "mixed from a supercharged CRX and a turbo Integra". You can find that information as a "Fun fact" around 17:09 in the video:
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As for me, that movie is what introduced me to the Eclipse. I didn't care much about cars before I saw that film. By the time I left the theater though, the second generation Eclipse was my dream car and I was hooked.

I love everything about the car, but more than anything, I love how it looks. In my opinion, the 2gb exterior is a work of art.
 
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I agree with the items you listed. I live in a place where awd is essential unless it’s just for summer use (and even then...). One thing that may be lost on our younger fans is how crappy performance cars were from about 1973 until really the late 80s, but really were resurrected in the 90s (and never looked back) the level of technology, power, and refinement that these cars offered with great reliability, live-ability, and low price (for what you got) really had never been seen prior. Tough to find low milage examples because the were used to commute, cruise the strip, and tear around for their owners. Compare to say, a Viper, which was a beast, but liked to swap ends, was expensive, punishing to ride for long, milage like a hole in the tank. They can now be found fairly cheap, with almost always under 50k mi, and lived in a garage as a toy. And I have always been crazy over the Viper!
 
Like many have stated, I was originally drawn to the DSM platform for its inexpensive entry into the turbo AWD world. DSM's are relatively easy to work on, especially compared to some more modern cars. Whether your goal is a street, drag or autocross build the huge aftermarket for these cars make your options limitless. What has kept me hooked all these years is the community. I rarely post on the forum because I have found most of my answers by searching the wealth of knowledge on this site. I've dabbled with modifying other cars, a b5 S4 for one. The upgrade path was install these parts and its stage x, not very original imop. In the DSM community I see the path as, what is your goal for the car, here are your options, choose your own adventure, nothing is out of reach. There are people running compound turbo set ups, hill climb competition, ralley, 7 sec. drag race cars or just street cruisers and everything in-between.
 
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