Resolved 2G W5M33 Trans output shaft and TOB help

[T Series Boost]

I was changing the clutch in my AWD Talon, and the bell housing was caked with lots of oil and clutch dust.

I've changed the rear main seal and the center shaft and drivers axle seals as well but I noticed the center shaft (the one that goes to the transfer case) does not lock in place. Feels like only the seal and the splines are providing resistance.

Is this normal?
Is it possible the shaft is missing C clip or something to lock it in place?
It did appear that the oil was coming from that area.

I was also wondering if anyone is using a NSK 48TKT3202 throw out bearing? It's outer race is smaller than the factory NSK that came out of the transmission.
Thanks.

 

[Mech Addict]

So you're saying you notice axial movement, that is, in and out along the same line as the center of the shaft? I replaced my trans twice recently (second time to shim the pivot ball) and don't recall much play in that direction. I have heard that if those splines get rusty, then separating the xfer case from the trans can place a lot of stress on the internals connected to that shaft. I actually was surprised that the shaft could be rotated, or seemed to have "play" when the input shaft was held in place. Then I decided that was normal because there is a differential that splits between the front axles and the rear output.

I did get a new NSK T.O. bearing with my Exedy stock replacement clutch kit. I compared it to the original (I assume) NSK that came out and they were the same. I have a photo that may show the part number, or you could search my old posts because I'm pretty sure I put it up at some point. Perhaps as a response in somebody else's post. How do the two sides fit against the fork lugs and the p.p. fingers? That's really what matters.

 

[Adam]

One end of that shaft rides in the t case, the other rides in the center diff viscous coupler. The only thing that holds that shaft in place is a single ball bearing that rides in a groove between that shaft and the center diff. It's held in place by the viscous coupler itself when you slide it on the splines. It's a pain to hold it all together but it is accessible with the trans still in the car. Just requires removing the end cover off the trans.

I don't think it will hurt anything by the shaft floating in there, I've heard of others having that issue but I'm not 100% sure. I would want to fix it personally.

You can see the hole in the center diff shaft in the picture. Top side, smaller shaft right above the larger shaft.

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[pauleyman]

You are missing the retaining ball inside the trans.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/is-this-supposed-to-come-out.364734/

 

[T Series Boost]

So you're saying you notice axial movement, that is, in and out along the same line as the center of the shaft? I replaced my trans twice recently (second time to shim the pivot ball) and don't recall much play in that direction. I have heard that if those splines get rusty, then separating the xfer case from the trans can place a lot of stress on the internals connected to that shaft. I actually was surprised that the shaft could be rotated, or seemed to have "play" when the input shaft was held in place. Then I decided that was normal because there is a differential that splits between the front axles and the rear output.

I did get a new NSK T.O. bearing with my Exedy stock replacement clutch kit. I compared it to the original (I assume) NSK that came out and they were the same. I have a photo that may show the part number, or you could search my old posts because I'm pretty sure I put it up at some point. Perhaps as a response in somebody else's post. How do the two sides fit against the fork lugs and the p.p. fingers? That's really what matters.

Yup, axial movement. It would probably fall out of the transmission if I tipped the transmission over. I thought maybe the transfer case holds it in place, but with all the oil that was in the bell housing it made me think there is something not right.
When I spin the input shaft, the center shaft spins but my drivers axle doesnt. I assume it's like you mentioned with the differential so I didnt worry about it.
I think my T.O.B. will work. the pressure plate splines seemed to make contact with it, but it is def a smaller diameter. My clutch kit came with a new TOB but there are a lot of posts saying not to use them so I got a new NSK on, and of course it had to be different than what I had. Internet seems to say that it is right for a AWD 2g, so I installed it.

 

[T Series Boost]

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/is-this-supposed-to-come-out.364734/

awesome. Thanks. Im glad I dont have to pull the trans again.

 

[Mech Addict]

I found the photo of my T.O. Bearing. 48TKA3201. I thought I had a photo of the old and new side x side, but can't seem to find it. I did compare them closely when the old trans came out. While the clutch disc had been replaced at some point, the flywheel and pp looked stock, so I assume the T.O. was as well.

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[pauleyman]

I found the photo of my T.O. Bearing. 48TKA3201. I thought I had a photo of the old and new side x side, but can't seem to find it. I did compare them closely when the old trans came out. While the clutch disc had been replaced at some point, the flywheel and pp looked stock, so I assume the T.O. was as well.

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That bearing works but it is not the preferred bearing. Preferred has a plastic inner sleeve. Different part number.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Output shaft retainer ball (MF540008) and OEM TOB (MD749998)

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[Mech Addict]

So is the oem t.o. bearing is made by NSK, or someone else? Does it have markings on the part?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

This TOB came out of the Mitsu packaging along with the ball and retainer. I don't see #'s on the part itself.

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[Mech Addict]

Thanks for posting that. And nothing on the other side either? There are discernible differences between yours and mine. Yours has one single plate on the clip side, with a pronounced lip at the center. Mine is composed of at least two different stampings fit together, and scant to no lip. I guess the dimensions that matter most are ID and thickness from the surface where the fork rides to the other side where the pp fingers contact. I no longer have an easy way to measure (trans removal..).

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Same here, trans is installed and I can't see the other side but to my recolection, it had no marking on the PP side. All of my stuff came from Tim Z just in the last week.
Edit: Luckily, I was snapping pictures as I was putting the trans onto the engine and got one of the TOB face. No numbers but I will post it for you to see.

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[T Series Boost]

To follow up, everyone was right. There was no ball bearings holding the center shaft in. It was a pretty straight forward to fix following the posted link. Remove the rear cover, catch the washer and gear that fall out, remove the c clip and pull the viscous coupler out. I used two 6mm ballbearing balls and put it back together. I never found where the original one ended up. It wasnt in the rear section of the transmission
Time will tell if the TOB I bought will hold up.
Thanks for the help.
Now on to my clutch slave problem...

 

[twicks69]

For future reference, MF540008 is a 1/4" alloy steel detent ball, which are readily available, https://www.mcmaster.com/9528K15/. There are two holes on the center diff upper pinion gear to put in a detent ball. Typically 1 detent ball is used. Typically, 1.5mm viscous coupler snap ring works for most applications, tighter range, there is a ~1.35-1.4mm option; both aftermarket that are good replacement options for this snapring that are external style ones. The OEM snapring MD720686 (1.4mm), MD720687 (1.5mm), and MD720688 (1.6mm) are hard to get and not cheap.
The 1.5mm option can be found a few places, I typically use McMaster-Carr. https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/129/3690/98541A134

The thinner option which is typically 1.28-1.35mm is https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/129/3688/97633A330

As for the TOB, well, I prefer the OEM part, MD749998, but some of the aftermarket ones have lasted just fine, other than ones in ultra cheap kits or ACT clutch kits. I don't know why, but I have probably seen the most TOB failures with ACT clutch kits over the years. Your call, your money.