Unorthodox Racing

Posted by unorthodox, Apr 10, 2018

Please Support Kiggly Racing
  1. unorthodox

    unorthodox Supporting Vendor

    6
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    Joined Oct 30, 2009
    Gainesville, Georgia
    We have been slowly working on reengineering some great parts from our past. We hope these new versions created for the DSM community will re-awaken interest in one of the simplest, best performing dollar per HP/TQ bolt ons ever available. The newly reengineered versions have almost eliminated all rotational weight. The performance improvements seen in the older versions were already impressive and the gains from these new versions would be stellar.

    First DSM model up, part# CS961, is the stock diameter crank pulley for the 1990-94 Eagle Talon, Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser 2.0L DOHC 16V non-turbo & Turbo. Also for the 1995-99 Eagle Talon & Mitsubishi Eclipse 2.0L DOHC 16V Turbo.

    CS961AF.JPG CS961AR.JPG
    This new Nano-lite version weighs .93 lbs. and improves on the reduction in rotational weight of our old version by over 75%

    When the first version of our 4G63 underdrive crank pulleys were tested by Turbo magazine in 1998 it made 10.5 HP at the wheels. We have included the very article for your viewing pleasure :)

    091998001.jpg 091998002.jpg 091998003.jpg 091998004.jpg

    Ignore that old address though as we have been firmly planted in NE Georgia for 4 years now.

    Second is the stock diameter alternator pulley part#AS961 for 2G models, which with a sleeve will also fit 1G models as part# AS941. It weighs an almost non-existent .007 lbs. compared to the stock at .49 lbs. (AS941 weighs .009 lbs and stock weighs .53 lbs.).

    AS961AF.JPG
    AS961AR.JPG

    Third is the stock diameter power steering pulley, part#PS961 for 2G models. It weighs a svelte .22 lbs and the stock weighs in at .89 lbs.

    PS961AF.JPG PS961AR.JPG

    And last but not least is the water pump pulley part# WS961 for the 2G models. It weighs in at a svelte .48 lbs and the stock weighs in at 1.6 lbs.

    WS961AF.JPG WS961AR.JPG

    Lots of rotational weight to be lost here in all combinations of pulleys.

    We can make any of these new versions with as little as a 10 piece group commitment for each type.

    QTY - PRICE BREAKDOWN

    Crank Pulley
    10-19 $220
    20-29 $200
    30+ $180

    Alternator Pulley
    10-19 $100
    20-29 $80
    30+ $70

    Power Steering Pulley
    10-19 $150
    20-29 $130
    30+ $120

    Water Pump Pulley
    10-19 $200
    20-29 $180
    30+ $170

    We hope to be able to bring this and other DSM products including and our adjustable cam gears back to the community. We will add those other reengineered DSM products over the next week or so.

    Thank you for taking the time to check out our loooong post!
     

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    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
    DJRace likes this.
  2. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

    2,709
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    Joined Nov 1, 2008
    London, Europe
    I will be the first to say welcome back and thanks for making and redesigning parts again but!!! its not got any rubber in it to dampen the vibrations, for that reason alot wont buy it because it will cause issues with our 4G63 engines, being light is good but it has to be dampened.

    someone else with more precise details im sure will chime in on this situation im sure
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Road Race Build

    175 whp   180.1 lb/ft
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    Archer Fabrications likes this.
  3. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

    3,420
    367
    Joined Nov 12, 2001
    Roseville, California
    There will certainly be some debate about this, we've seen it before, but the article referenced in the post touches on UR's position in the debate. I'd be curious what type of hard data anyone might have surrounding this topic for the 4G63 - not theory or assumptions, but real life testing and results - with balance shafts and without them.

    Nevertheless, it's cool to see some lightweight accessory pulleys becoming available again, even if some aren't sold on the crank pulley.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Road Race Build

    12.450 @ MPH
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  4. donniekak

    donniekak DSM Wiseman

    4,359
    673
    Joined Mar 23, 2008
    Surprise, Arizona
    I’d be interested in a bigger alternator pulley to slow it down at high rpms.
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

      manual
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  5. unorthodox

    unorthodox Supporting Vendor

    6
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    Joined Oct 30, 2009
    Gainesville, Georgia
    Any versions design can be modified to suit the desires of a minimum group of 10 end-users. Depending on the increase in diameter for accessory pulleys (the driven pulleys) there may be additional cost based on needing a larger bar of raw material or an increase in production time due to the larger size.
     
  6. unorthodox

    unorthodox Supporting Vendor

    6
    20
    Joined Oct 30, 2009
    Gainesville, Georgia
    Thank you for the welcome :D

    The dampening issue has been a long sad road we have had to travel for over 20 years. Unfortunately the facts are not easily understood and too many have blindly accepted the word of damper manufacturers as gospel. Over the last 10 years we have quietly allowed our reputation and the quality of our products speak for the legitimacy of not needing a damper on any platform we make pulleys for. Over our almost 21 years on the market the hundreds of thousands of our crank pulleys have accumulated billions of miles from street to track. We fell that most of the problems that were associated with pulleys arose from significantly inferior knock-offs of our pulleys. Cheap on and off-shore products made to questionable standards with non-US made uncertified raw materials. Not to mention many early engine failures (crank cracking in particular) were a function of very poor tuning. Tuning that was limited by the technology of the time in the early 2000's. This also doesn't account for some end-users far surpassing the factories intended/margin capability of many stock components especially the oil pump and the crank. When making 2-3 times stock power those two components should be swapped out for a dry sump system and billet unit. Not to mention rods and pistons of course. None of this even touches the subject of balance shaft removal and high HP levels. We also stumbled on a bit a very important information from Continental a relative newcomer to the US belt market. They have data that specifically shows that the OE's are purely concerned with underhood NVH when it comes to the accessry drive system which includes the crank pulley. You can see the graph and more info about how dampers are not necessary on our web-site https://www.unorthodoxracing.com/university

    We have also been developing a damper for the cross-plane V8 market since the mid 2000's. We received a patent for our Ultra Damper technology in 2012 and have been trying to make the transition to bringing this tech to market every since. The elastomer used in the Ultra Damper has been prohibitively expensive to produce but we may have finally resolved the issue with 3D printings continuous improvements. Without 3D technologys improvements making the 30+ different elastomers designs we will likely need to cover the market would be financial telephone numbers in developm costs. During this development we saw first hand that everything we had been saying since 1997 about damper and the engines they applied to was true. We will never offer an Ultra-Damper ourselves for any of the applications we make or made solid pulleys. Now if a vendor is interested in supplying our technology, to those that can't get past the facts or our spotless history, we would have no problem private labeling.

    We laid the gauntlet down a number of years ago that put the onus on the damper manufacturers making these claims. Show us the motors, because based on their calims there must be tens of thousands of broken cranks out there if they are right. We have yet to hear a response. Its about fear and they prefer to keep this in the urban myth and legends grey area without facts. How else do you sell a product that is 2-3 times the cost of our product but most importantly does 0 (zero) to improve performance and in most cases slows the motor down and hurts performance. This is due to the most simple fact or physics that replacing something with another that is equal or heavier in static and or rotational weight means zero or a negative improvement in acceleration.

    There is plenty more to discuss and we know there are lots of questions to follow which we are glad to answer.
     
  7. TSiAWD666

    TSiAWD666 Supporting Member

    2,085
    446
    Joined Aug 15, 2003
    Herndon, Virginia
    Would be great if you would consider a GM alternator pulley option as well.

    I'm in for 2g power steering and water pump pulleys.
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Road Race Build

    384 whp   391 lb/ft
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    SAKJR and 95eclipser like this.
  8. unorthodox

    unorthodox Supporting Vendor

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    Joined Oct 30, 2009
    Gainesville, Georgia
    The largest of the elephants in the room really is tuning. The minimization of detonation of any kind is the single biggest factor in engine life when trying to make more power. This assumes at a minimum proper engine maintenance of course and not exceeding the design limitations of the components. Detonation of any kind is a recipe for component breakage, cracking of cranks especially, not to mention the hammering of the bearings especially rods and wrist pins. No damper can mitigate the effects of detonation which is why these types of failures still occur with the factory crank pulley or the aftermarket damper.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  9. Boomdeeze

    Boomdeeze Proven Member

    1,343
    134
    Joined Jul 5, 2009
    Independence, Minnesota
    I'm in for the larger 2g/Galant alternator, power steering and a water pump pulley!

    Bought the aftermarket damper a long time ago so that ship has sailed for me..

    Welcome back by the way!
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    10.793 @ 128.98 MPH
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    unorthodox likes this.
  10. unorthodox

    unorthodox Supporting Vendor

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    Joined Oct 30, 2009
    Gainesville, Georgia
    Thank you for being in on the P/S :)

    As mentioned in a previous reply we can do any pulley type/style/configuration, only requirement is 10 pieces.
     
  11. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Supporting Vendor

    4,146
    749
    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    My car cracks the crank in the #4 rod journal. That is without doubt due to torsional vibration of the crankshaft, I also make 700hp. Back in 1998, a 300hp dsm was a big deal, and cars still had balance shafts. Obviously they didn't have much of an issue with a solid crank pulley. Now days 5,6,700hp is becoming the norm, and no-one has balance shafts any more - damping torsional vibrations is more critical in this case.

    I will agree that the balance shafts do add a large degree of torsional damping. And I will also say that an ultra-light power pulley is much better for your crankshaft than a non-working stocker, or a worn out fluidamper/ATI.

    Finally flywheel weight is an effect too, an ultra light flywheel places less demand on the damper as you start getting into rigid body torsional vibration. That's hard on the trans though.
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon N/T

    Showcar Build

    9.805 @ 144.00 MPH
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    SAKJR likes this.
  12. 95REGF150

    95REGF150 Proven Member

    118
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    Joined Mar 7, 2012
    Elk Grove, California
    Very cool to see some new products.

    Fluidampr on mine as well so no crank pulley for me. But I would be in for the other 3 - PS, WP, and Alternator
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

      manual
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  13. unorthodox

    unorthodox Supporting Vendor

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    Joined Oct 30, 2009
    Gainesville, Georgia
    Thank you for the response :)

    You actually get to a point we have made for a while. An aftermarket damper is a band-aid for the bigger problem which is these power numbers are way beyond what the factory crankshaft was designed to tolerate. Now a billet or beefier forged crank is expensive but if you look at the maximum potential for putting the most power to the wheels then it is the best solution long term. So the money spent on the band-aid can be put towards the better crank and the lightest pulley and flywheel combination can be used. After all its about the dyno numbers or the timeslips or the track times that matter and more power means higher, quicker and shorter respectively when compared to the same setuip with the band-aid instead.

    Just a question of curiosity, are you still using a stock oil pump?
     
    SAKJR likes this.
  14. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

    2,709
    766
    Joined Nov 1, 2008
    London, Europe
    just seen the update in new pullys, is these just weight savings or are they now a different size like the alternator pully for instance? I modified my one from kiggly racing as it was for \ 1G but made it work for a 2g which is bigger so is dont over charge the alt when revving high,

    i would be in for a set of the other pullys for sure,
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Road Race Build

    175 whp   180.1 lb/ft
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  15. 95eclipser

    95eclipser Proven Member

    755
    267
    Joined Feb 3, 2006
    Manassas, Virginia
    Yes more then 90% of us are. There will be a handful with dry sumps and others with be on the new Ball bearing billet setups from Frontline. While testing is going well, long term is still to be seen on the new BB pump.
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    464 whp   379 lb/ft
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    10.920 @ 133.900 MPH
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    unorthodox likes this.
  16. unorthodox

    unorthodox Supporting Vendor

    6
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    Joined Oct 30, 2009
    Gainesville, Georgia
    We can do anything a group of 10 wants. As more see this thread or comment maybe a single design or a few designs can be agreed upon to maximize qtys and drive down forum member group cost :)
     
    ec17pse likes this.
  17. 95eclipser

    95eclipser Proven Member

    755
    267
    Joined Feb 3, 2006
    Manassas, Virginia
    I like that the water pulley is a single unit instead of two pulleys.
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    464 whp   379 lb/ft
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    10.920 @ 133.900 MPH
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  18. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

    2,709
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    Joined Nov 1, 2008
    London, Europe
    I know its a hard subject and one works and one dont but the basic principle i understand is 4 cyl blocks have crap balancing so they do find it useful for a damper to help with this. infact most inlines are not great at rotaion vibrations from what i gather

    everything i have ever read on the subject for years always points in 1 direction and thats to use a damper and it also comes from many engine builders over the many many years so if they suggest it then it has to be for some reason,

    it would be awesome if someone here tested one out and managed to see the effects in valve train and vibrations seen in and around the block with stock damper vs non damper, on both shafted and non shafted cars! only then we could really put this to rest and know 100%, as we all know and love here, DATA LOL
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Road Race Build

    175 whp   180.1 lb/ft
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  19. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

    2,709
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    Joined Nov 1, 2008
    London, Europe
    well im pretty sure i would be down for all other 3 pullys, the PS might not be needed when i ditch PS but shall see
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Road Race Build

    175 whp   180.1 lb/ft
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  20. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Supporting Vendor

    4,146
    749
    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    Yes, stock oil pump for me.
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon N/T

    Showcar Build

    9.805 @ 144.00 MPH
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    SAKJR likes this.
  21. Jacolu3

    Jacolu3 Proven Member

    417
    47
    Joined Jan 31, 2015
    Lake Grove, New York
    I'd be in for an alt, ps, and wp pulleys
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Drag Race Build

    11.734 @ 117.56 MPH
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  22. lasthope05

    lasthope05 Proven Member

    827
    169
    Joined Mar 31, 2006
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    Water pump and underdrive alternator pulley for me
     
  23. arrowhead

    arrowhead Proven Member

    534
    26
    Joined Apr 19, 2011
    miami, Florida
    Will the crank pulley still be an underdrive with your new designs.?
     
    My DSM:
    1998 Eagle Talon TSi

    Road Race Build

    16g   manual
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  24. bduran1220

    bduran1220 Proven Member

    304
    5
    Joined Nov 26, 2011
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Is this a group buy???
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST

    Street Build

    99999 @ 99999 MPH
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  25. 91 GSX

    91 GSX Proven Member

    80
    8
    Joined Jul 2, 2006
    Evansport, Ohio
    I'd buy a water pump and alternator pulley, especially if anodized blue is an option. I already have a bnib Fluidamper and an old Buscher Racing underdrive dampener to choose from though. And I did the "flying miata mod" to my power steering rack a long time ago. I'll never go back to power steering, but I would like to put an actual manual rack from a 1g non-turbo with a steering wheel quickener in sometime. Non-the-less no ps pulley needed here. I'll be watching for when you officially open a group buy list. Thanks for thinking of us.
     
    unorthodox likes this.

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