The Top DSM Community on the Web

For 1990-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, and Galant VR-4 Owners. Log in to remove most ads.

  • Join the Community!

    DSMtuners is a massive archive of DSM information - but more importantly, it's a COMMUNITY! Join in and participate with other DSMers, and invite all of your DSM friends to make this place their home. Chat with others, create a build thread, post questions and answers. Get involved! Logging in will also remove many of the advertisements, along with this notice. ;) It will also allow you to view images in threads.

Please Support Kiggly Racing
Please Support ExtremePSI

U-joints source

Mech Addict

Supporting Member
959
402
Jun 9, 2019
Jackson, Wyoming
So I was unaware that u-joints had actually gotten so scarce. Sounds like JNZ sells out as soon as they arrive. RTM is listing them still, but I just want to give folks a heads up that I got 2 for my 90 gsx from Amayama from their UAE warehouse; $57/ ea. + ship (maybe $20?). Took about 2 weeks, but they are real Mitsubishi Spider Kits.

I definitely support our supporting vendors, including both I mentioned above. Josh is my go-to, and Paul is knowledgeable and super-helpful in the Canadian tradition. But Amayama has come through for me too for plenty of parts. Requires a little more patience, but with parts disappearing, we need to recognize all the opportunities. Whatever money I save from one vender ends up spent at the others…
 

007jimmy

Proven Member
1,617
191
Feb 27, 2012
Levittown, Pennsylvania
Nice, I bit the bullet and paid 114 each from extremepsi 2 weeks ago. I only live a few minutes from them so I guess it’s a convenience tax :(LOL
 

Mech Addict

Supporting Member
959
402
Jun 9, 2019
Jackson, Wyoming
Yes, I didn’t mention them in my post, but epsi, stm, and rockauto are also a big help. I’m mostly into the oem thing, and all these vendors are critical. I’ve never had any luck with dealerships, and my local parts stores just shake their heads.
 

spyderdrifter

Supporting Member
5,184
695
Jul 11, 2009
Some where in, Colorado
Got any part numbers from RockAuto? I know a lot of places sell a bunch of items, "claimed" to fit, and then don't. I gotta replace mine as well, and don't want to order the wrong ones.
 

Mech Addict

Supporting Member
959
402
Jun 9, 2019
Jackson, Wyoming
I’ve not seen them carry oem ujoints. There is a replacement from GMB that they sell, but no experience on how well those work. I was mentioning rockauto more in terms of just being a parts source I sometimes use for car parts, not this particular car part.
 

Mech Addict

Supporting Member
959
402
Jun 9, 2019
Jackson, Wyoming
Good question. Some things just are, or at least are reputed to be. Plenty of folks will only use oem tbelt tensioner or (fill in the blank). Ujoints seem to be in this magic category. I’ve drank the koolaid, but honestly have nothing better to go on but the word of others. They are literally 10 times the price of the aftermarket “equivalent “. Also, I’ve never seen an installation procedure for unoints that was so exact. There are multiple sets of snap rings with each set, and they only differ by thousandths! The aftermarket photos only show one set. Does it matter? I can’t see how, but, two thoughts come to mind.
A. Why else would the car maker have gone to all that trouble. They take shortcuts all over the place, but decided this was the right way for these driveshafts.
B. My background in engineering combines science and judgment. Some things can be well recognized, but not always well understood.

The consequences of driveshaft failure start with vibration, but can end with loss of limbs. Probably unlikely, for sure, but there is a reason rwd drag cars use those loops.

Anyone else know why??
 

DSSA

Supporting Vendor
587
391
Jul 26, 2002
Hatfield, Pennsylvania
Good question. Some things just are, or at least are reputed to be. Plenty of folks will only use oem tbelt tensioner or (fill in the blank). Ujoints seem to be in this magic category. I’ve drank the koolaid, but honestly have nothing better to go on but the word of others. They are literally 10 times the price of the aftermarket “equivalent “. Also, I’ve never seen an installation procedure for unoints that was so exact. There are multiple sets of snap rings with each set, and they only differ by thousandths! The aftermarket photos only show one set. Does it matter? I can’t see how, but, two thoughts come to mind.
A. Why else would the car maker have gone to all that trouble. They take shortcuts all over the place, but decided this was the right way for these driveshafts.
B. My background in engineering combines science and judgment. Some things can be well recognized, but not always well understood.

The consequences of driveshaft failure start with vibration, but can end with loss of limbs. Probably unlikely, for sure, but there is a reason rwd drag cars use those loops.

Anyone else know why??
I'll take a stab at this one... ;-)

Decades ago, even though the yoke recall kits were the cheap option, people still wanted to find cheaper. These cars were far more expensive back then (although, I like the way the market is now heading with pricing on clean examples...) but lets be honest here. A lot of people who have been attracted to these cars since Day One are...well...let's say "frugal". Only market segments that I can think of that are markedly more notorious for this are StarQuest and Honda guys. Logically--it makes sense. We all love the aspect that we used to be able to buy these cars, stick around $1000 in them and with some creative work and experience in driving them, run 12s and shame the then-current, new Mustang/Camaro/Corvette/Porsche/Viper guys at the local Friday Night Drags. So, these cars naturally appeal to those who like going fast on a budget.

People back then said "Hey! I can grab these at Napa/PepBoy/etc. for $10 a joint cheaper, and pick them up locally!". Then, kinda like the Gates/Continental/etc. timing belts of the day and GMB water pumps, failures started showing up on the mailing lists, new forums, and IRC chats. People were snapping them on the street with 11, 12 and 13 second cars. Almost every failure was due to the trunnion(s) snapping right where it attached at the journal cross. At that point, people quickly learned to stay away from them.

Ted, I don't have your background in engineering. But for starters, almost *every* aftermarket universal joint I've seen for these cars is drilled for grease fittings. These galleys extend through the shaft into the end of each trunnion. That alone gives me pause.

The other aspect is the cross journals themselves. Look at the size of the OEM cross journal. It's almost as if whomever spec'd these were trying to cram as much material into the cross journal as they could.

After we got in the last of the recall kits and they sold in hours, I went on a mad search for u-joints once again. The recall kits were gone, and Mitsu back ordered the u-joints and yokes (big surprise). I was excited to see that I could get OEM Evo 1/2/3 u-joints, and they were slightly cheaper than the DSM/GVR4 units. Another person I know was eating stock U-joints with a stroker setup, so I was hoping I'd receive them and see that they were stronger than the DSM ones---yes, I fell into the "Evo?? Must be better than the DSM unit!" trap, and I should have known better by now. I figured "More bhp from the factory. The factory knew they'd be used for motorsports..". What I didn't logically think through was that the Mitsu engineers realized that the Evos also weighed a decent amount less than the GVR4s (and later, DSMs). The yokes arrived, I compared them to a DSM u-joint I held back for my own cars, and was disappointed. While they weren't drilled for grease fittings, the cross journals were notable less beefy. They're still floating around here somewhere. I have some customers with earlier Evos, so maybe I'll sell them someday to one of those guys if they want the originals instead of the DSM upgraded unit...

End point, people with completely different vehicles were buying up these yoke kits because they were so beefy (Suzuki Samurai groups come to mind). It'll be a shame when Mitsu kills them off completely.
 

Mech Addict

Supporting Member
959
402
Jun 9, 2019
Jackson, Wyoming
Thanks for that perspective, Josh. I wasn't trying to imply that there is no reason to use oem u-joints; only that I didn't really know why specifically. My point about engineering was just that. Scientist search for reasons why, while good engineers just accept when one things works better, and when it doesn't. It does make me sound a bit snobbish when I reread it now. I had read enough chatter about "only use oem ujoints" to respect that there was a wealth of knowledge about it. I'm not in a position to fool around with trying out the other brands and risk the cascade of damage that could result. That would be way more expensive that simply using the recommended one. Also, I appreciate all you do in getting parts in the hands of enthusiasts. I don't like to step on toes, but when demand is outstripping supply, and I seem to have a lead that worked for me, I feel a sense of community to share that option. I was somewhat staggered at the cost savings, but I know you supporting vendors aren't getting rich gouging anyone. I had never seen anyone list an oem ujoint listed for under $100 until I found these. I agree with your comment about how it really does look like they added all the metal possible to the cross. I hope I didn't offend anyone, as that was certainly not my intent.
 

DSSA

Supporting Vendor
587
391
Jul 26, 2002
Hatfield, Pennsylvania
Thanks for that perspective, Josh. I wasn't trying to imply that there is no reason to use oem u-joints; only that I didn't really know why specifically. My point about engineering was just that. Scientist search for reasons why, while good engineers just accept when one things works better, and when it doesn't. It does make me sound a bit snobbish when I reread it now. I had read enough chatter about "only use oem ujoints" to respect that there was a wealth of knowledge about it. I'm not in a position to fool around with trying out the other brands and risk the cascade of damage that could result. That would be way more expensive that simply using the recommended one. Also, I appreciate all you do in getting parts in the hands of enthusiasts. I don't like to step on toes, but when demand is outstripping supply, and I seem to have a lead that worked for me, I feel a sense of community to share that option. I was somewhat staggered at the cost savings, but I know you supporting vendors aren't getting rich gouging anyone. I had never seen anyone list an oem ujoint listed for under $100 until I found these. I agree with your comment about how it really does look like they added all the metal possible to the cross. I hope I didn't offend anyone, as that was certainly not my intent.
Ted,

I must have come off differently than I intended.

I didn’t think you came off snobbish at all.

The fact that you have a background in engineering made me want to present my findings over the years and see if you either agreed with what my take was, or had corrections. ;-)

Josh
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
7,796
2,489
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
Oh how i wish i had biught a half dozen recall kits years ago. Who knew. I have some squirreled away for later but missed that boat. At what point are the cars just not repairable? I hope were not that close.
 

Mech Addict

Supporting Member
959
402
Jun 9, 2019
Jackson, Wyoming
Update: I installed the u-joints I got from Amayama yesterday. The only u-joint I had previously installed came with a yoke kit, and I used the new yoke, so only had to do "half", and there was a full compliment (2 each) of different color-coded snap rings. With the kits I used yesterday, each had four gold and four blue, but only two silver snap rings each (I think only 2 black ones, as well). I found that silver was really what my yokes were suited for. I could not make the gold work well. The snap ring wouldn't expand completely in the groove, and the action of the joint was too stiff. Not quite notchy, but not in that sweet spot of firm but smooth. I ended up taking two of the gold ones and sanding them for a bit on a flat surface. I moved my fingers around frequently so that the sanding would be as even as possible. Spent about 5 minutes per side (4 sides total). They definitely fit better and the joint now has better feel. Still had to use a screwdriver to force the second snap ring ends apart a little, but it is well seated now with the same gap between the ends as all the rest.
These were un-oponed new OEM kits with the MB154554 on the tag. Both kits came with only two silver rings in each kit. I used all four silver rings on my first joint. Gold worked OK for one side of the second, but too tight for the other two caps (as explained above). Just curious if this is the normal amount of silver rings, and what the heck are they thinking by not including enough of each thickness in each kit.
Still can't understand why this level of tolerance is so crucial on these joints. The big old Spicer joints in my Dodge simply have straps and bolts to go over the caps on the driveshaft side. The pinion yoke side is pressed, but only one size of circlip to go in, and never a struggle.
 

rb25det510

Proven Member
107
2
Nov 3, 2005
lake zurich, Illinois
Update: I installed the u-joints I got from Amayama yesterday. The only u-joint I had previously installed came with a yoke kit, and I used the new yoke, so only had to do "half", and there was a full compliment (2 each) of different color-coded snap rings. With the kits I used yesterday, each had four gold and four blue, but only two silver snap rings each (I think only 2 black ones, as well). I found that silver was really what my yokes were suited for. I could not make the gold work well. The snap ring wouldn't expand completely in the groove, and the action of the joint was too stiff. Not quite notchy, but not in that sweet spot of firm but smooth. I ended up taking two of the gold ones and sanding them for a bit on a flat surface. I moved my fingers around frequently so that the sanding would be as even as possible. Spent about 5 minutes per side (4 sides total). They definitely fit better and the joint now has better feel. Still had to use a screwdriver to force the second snap ring ends apart a little, but it is well seated now with the same gap between the ends as all the rest.
These were un-oponed new OEM kits with the MB154554 on the tag. Both kits came with only two silver rings in each kit. I used all four silver rings on my first joint. Gold worked OK for one side of the second, but too tight for the other two caps (as explained above). Just curious if this is the normal amount of silver rings, and what the heck are they thinking by not including enough of each thickness in each kit.
Still can't understand why this level of tolerance is so crucial on these joints. The big old Spicer joints in my Dodge simply have straps and bolts to go over the caps on the driveshaft side. The pinion yoke side is pressed, but only one size of circlip to go in, and never a struggle.
Agreed. Heck I started installing an OEM cross today and had the issue where even with the silver clips it was on that borderline of tight but almost binding. Where do you go from there when you've used the thinnest ones?
 

Mech Addict

Supporting Member
959
402
Jun 9, 2019
Jackson, Wyoming
I recently found the bag of leftover snap rings from the first ujoint I swapped with a yoke kit over a year ago. I discovered the silvers gone, so every pair of journals in my prop shaft uses the silver. My car is a 90, so I wonder if later years had wider yokes or something. Who would ever need those thickest black ones???
 

DSSA

Supporting Vendor
587
391
Jul 26, 2002
Hatfield, Pennsylvania
Over the years it's typically been the silver and the thin, shiny black units that we've mostly used out of the kits. I would say about 50/50. It's important to carefully clean the ring lands on them as rust will make them tighter, as will any ridges/scrapes/scoring that can happen while pressing the caps in or out. You want them to be as tight as possible to reduce movement.

I've had cases where I didn't get all of the junk out of them, installed the silver, then found that it spun somewhat freely of wobbled a little, the blacks would then fit in those spots once the silver had knocked more crud out of them.

It is kinda dumb how they don't put extra silvers in there.
 

jakelandry

Proven Member
965
148
Oct 13, 2009
Minden, Louisiana
I installed a GMB 2200107 in my car over the weekend. I wouldn’t say that I have great faith that it is up to par with factory, and honestly I was too lazy to measure anything, but it is a solid, non-greasable option. My scenario is a bit unique since I have a carbon front half so my u joints don’t get shocked as hard, but if this one fails I’ll just make a new shaft that accepts a readily available spicer joint. By the time you rebuild a factory drive shaft with OEM parts you’re at half the price of a custom built driveshaft.

Full disclaimer: My car will not be back on the road for another year or so so I cannot attest to durability at this time, only provide that there is a solid aftermarket joint.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.


You must be logged in to view this image or video.


You must be logged in to view this image or video.
 

DSSA

Supporting Vendor
587
391
Jul 26, 2002
Hatfield, Pennsylvania
I installed a GMB 2200107 in my car over the weekend. I wouldn’t say that I have great faith that it is up to par with factory, and honestly I was too lazy to measure anything, but it is a solid, non-greasable option. My scenario is a bit unique since I have a carbon front half so my u joints don’t get shocked as hard, but if this one fails I’ll just make a new shaft that accepts a readily available spicer joint. By the time you rebuild a factory drive shaft with OEM parts you’re at half the price of a custom built driveshaft.

Full disclaimer: My car will not be back on the road for another year or so so I cannot attest to durability at this time, only provide that there is a solid aftermarket joint.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.


You must be logged in to view this image or video.


You must be logged in to view this image or video.
That's fantastic! How did you come up with that part number? GMB does not list it as a joint that will fit our cars.

It looks more like the Evo 1-3 joint as opposed to the DSM unit. I have the Evo units in stock and available, but I don't sell them as they're of a weaker design than the porky GVR4 (and then subsequent DSM) units. Mitsu added some beef to them (I'm assuming) due to the heavier curb weight/stress.

Please let us know how these work out once you've tested them out under some abuse, and thank you for sharing this info!
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
7,796
2,489
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
I snagged this off rockauto so no guarantee it's this actual part but I suspect it is. Josh how does that look compared to OEM or evo 1-3?
You must be logged in to view this image or video.
 

jakelandry

Proven Member
965
148
Oct 13, 2009
Minden, Louisiana
GMB has two forgings. From what I can tell there’s a traditional style similar to OEM which is the 220 series and the “heavy duty” which is the 215 series. The problem is they don’t offer the 215 series in our size in a solid form. They do have the 220 in our sizes which is the part number I listed above. GMB has a size tool online and I just cross referenced the dimensions to get a solid version that will fit. The best option would be their 215 casting in a solid form. I tried to reach out to them via email to discuss it but they ignored me.

Ultimately I chose to just throw in a solid potentially weaker u joint for the time being and to make my own shaft because I was investing too much time scouring every u joint manufacturers part numbers and tools online for a part that still may not hold up to my goals.
 

DSSA

Supporting Vendor
587
391
Jul 26, 2002
Hatfield, Pennsylvania
GMB has two forgings. From what I can tell there’s a traditional style similar to OEM which is the 220 series and the “heavy duty” which is the 215 series. The problem is they don’t offer the 215 series in our size in a solid form. They do have the 220 in our sizes which is the part number I listed above. GMB has a size tool online and I just cross referenced the dimensions to get a solid version that will fit. The best option would be their 215 casting in a solid form. I tried to reach out to them via email to discuss it but they ignored me.

Ultimately I chose to just throw in a solid potentially weaker u joint for the time being and to make my own shaft because I was investing too much time scouring every u joint manufacturers part numbers and tools online for a part that still may not hold up to my goals.
Jake,

I do have some of the OEM units in stock. I just haven't advertised them as we're still awaiting the "intergalactic-back-order" yokes.

I snagged this off rockauto so no guarantee it's this actual part but I suspect it is. Josh how does that look compared to OEM or evo 1-3?
You must be logged in to view this image or video.
Paul,

That's the early Evo style unit style. Both the Evo and the GVR4 (&DSM) units have the bridged cross-shaft design. Let me see if I can find the comparison pics I have between the two.

That said, I'm using the Evo units on the GVR4 I have (just a driver/local car) which won't get beaten on much at all, and will probably only make 350 whp when it's all said an done. I want to see how they hold up for that usage.

Paul,

Evo on the right, GVR4/DSM on the left:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.



The Evo (OEM) even seem to look a little beefier than the GMB units. (discuss)
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
7,796
2,489
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
After all this time is there no way to figure out who were the tier suppliers to Mitsubishi? I tried to get into the automotive industry after graduating college and I attended an SAE vendors convention and met with all sorts of people that supply for all the auto makers. Neat neat show by the way. I met with the company that built the sunroof for the 2g. This was when they were new or we probably would've argued a bit. I found it very interesting which booths were bigger, suggesting a larger presence. At this particular event, Mannesmann/VDO had a very large booth, scantily clad women etc.
I don't remember GMB being there but SKF was for sure.
 

DSSA

Supporting Vendor
587
391
Jul 26, 2002
Hatfield, Pennsylvania
After all this time is there no way to figure out who were the tier suppliers to Mitsubishi? I tried to get into the automotive industry after graduating college and I attended an SAE vendors convention and met with all sorts of people that supply for all the auto makers. Neat neat show by the way. I met with the company that built the sunroof for the 2g. This was when they were new or we probably would've argued a bit. I found it very interesting which booths were bigger, suggesting a larger presence. At this particular event, Mannesmann/VDO had a very large booth, scantily clad women etc.
I don't remember GMB being there but SKF was for sure.
Ive been doing that for years. The problem is that they don't buy from *one* manufacturer.

On top of that, u-joints are a prime example. Koyo makes the bearing caps, but the cross shaft seems to be a casting that they have rights to and have produced to their spec.
 

Mech Addict

Supporting Member
959
402
Jun 9, 2019
Jackson, Wyoming
I agree with DSSA on at least the visual assessment of "beefiness" (very technical terms here). The more rounded central body looks like it would distribute stress better than the more squared-off shape of that other cross. Certainly that’s not conclusive, though.

I have wondered the same thing as pauleyman on a number of NLA parts, especially for my oddball 90 gsx. Shift cables, axle parts, fuel pump hanger/ level sensor assembly, etc. If Mitsubishi no longer want to have these items made, why cant the original mfr sell it under their own name directly? Although that doesn’t necessarily mean there is a business case to support those suppliers to do so.
I also like the idea of converting to Spicer yokes and joints. I would confirm that the cost of rebuilding the prop shaft is likely more than half the cost of a custom one. Of course you know it will fit with no issues, and keeping it original means something to me.
 

XC92

Proven Member
1,364
280
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
I'm going to be removing my Talon's prop shaft later this spring, as part of a complete overhaul of the rear end. Or, rather the completion of the overhaul I'd started a while back, this one requiring everything to be removed to do it right.

I've previously already rebuilt the calipers & strut assemblies and derusted and painted the control & trailing arms and anything else I could get to easily without removing them from the car.

Now I hope to clean, derust and paint the prop shaft & brackets, subframe, diff support, diff, sway bar and underbody, and replace the BJs, links & control arm bushings, which I've already purchased (ES & Moog).

Anyway, when I remove the prop shaft, anything else I need to do, examine, rebuild or replace before reinstalling it on a car with less than 80k miles on it, besides also regreasing it? I've already gotten new bolts per the FSM. Is it too soon to think about taking apart or replacing the joints or bearings?

As for the front part that leaked on some cars that required the now NLA recall kit, isn't there some sort of fix to plug that leak, if it turns out to have one? When I took it in for the recall back in '98, they said they saw no leak.
 
Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Boosted Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Fuel Injector Clinic Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications MyMitsubishiStore.com RixRacing RockAuto RTM Racing STM Tuned VR Speed Factory

Latest posts

Build Thread Updates

Vendor Updates

Latest Classifieds

Top