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2G Turbo-Swap a broken 2G Euro-Spec GS

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Dave_2GNA

Probationary Member
4
1
Aug 28, 2020
Mainhardt, Europe
I´m new to car forums like this so bear with me, i looked for this topic before and didnt find anything so far, also while looking around on google and similar in general so im hopin someone here can give me a heads up.

I bought a really cheap, great condition, 1996 pre-facelift little-to-no-rust 2G Eclipse GS, euro-spec so discs front and rear and a naturally aspirated 4G63, 146hp FWD about two months ago, but about 2000 miles on it and then, it turns out, it wasn't so great condition. Lost power on my way to work, thought it just had a hiccup or something since it had rough idle due to the battery going flat before that, I assumed it was something with that, a mile later it started knocking. Now, i haven´t had the time to crack it open yet, its still standing at a friends parking lot where limped it after hearing the knock, like an idiot, i guess i refused to accept engine-damage.

Supposedly, the car only has about 60k miles on it so it seems a little odd to me that it would have major issues at that point BUT i also had a V6 Galant before which, due to previous owners bad maintenance, had pretty big issues at only 80k miles and from what i read about the 4G63´s, they tend to last forever IF they´re well kept.

Now, as I said, I haven´t had it open before. From what it sounds like its either rod-knock or some relatively big Lifter-damage.

Considering that i can get a 4G63 NA for less then 500 bucks where i live, i thought "okay, lets just put a new one in it, do preventive maintenance on that one right away and that's it". But, as fate would have it, I got a nice shot of side-money and got offered a very cheap lease for a smaller car, I didn't want to put my rust-free eclipse through German Snow and Salt anyway.

So, long story short, I'm considering 4G63T swapping it but 99% of threads online talk about 4G63T swapping the 420A and how useless that is vs just buying a GST or GSX.

Now, a friend of mine has a semi-rusted 1G Eagle Talon AWD turbo, it was a US-import but treated pretty badly, he offered to sell me the engine and AWD drivetrain.

I also found an Evo 4 engine for a similar price, without the AWD drivetrain half the mileage tho.

I´m NOT planning to go absolutely crazy with power if the 4G63T swap WAS going to happen, bolt on-mods at most. But it would be a nice power-boost and seems like a fun project.

Let me also say that I got the car for so cheap and in such a good condition that, in terms of money, I can put a good amount in it before I remotely approach market value of even another GS so please, don't just say "buy a GSX instead".

Thoughts, opinions, ideas? Also, any safe answers on the motor-mounts of the 4G63 vs 4G63T?
Any help is appreciated.

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Hey Dave, and welcome to the forums!

I'll cut straight to the chase because as a matter of fact there is actually quite a lot of info covered even on this forum about our Euro GS DSMs and their differences and upgradeability.

Only EVO 1 2 3 engines will bolt onto your chassis. The EVO 4+ engines can bolt up to a 420a DSM but since the EVOs are always AWD, you'd need to do a lot more to the chassis anyway.

What year is that Talon your friend has? If it's a 92-95, it will most probably have a 7 bolt engine which will bolt up fine, but you'd need to use your NA transmission and backplate.

Rod knock and lifter ticking sounds quite different if you've heard at least one of those sounds before. Lifters sometimes get quiet, and they almost never get louder with RPM. Whereas if your rods are knocking, it will get louder and more chaotic as the RPMs get higher.

Our 2G NA 4G63 engines are identical to the US counterparts, with the only difference being the 10:1 compression pistons. I've compared both pistons side by side, the N/A pistons have a thicker crown which technically makes it a sturdier piston. But if you read in the official technical brochures, both pistons are cast from exactly the same material.

Don't overthink it, look at a used N/A 4G63 engine from a 2G somewhere near you, maybe at a junk yard. Get it, inspect it, maybe replace the pistons and rods if you are planning on running bigger power, then drop it right into your engine bay.

Also, I know this is personal preference but... What's the point of garaging the damn thing when it's meant to be driven in all weather conditions? It wont remain rust free forever. Sure, maybe you'll save 2-3 years of rust, but honestly the way things are headed, especially for Germany, you have maybe less than 5 years before your government will ban old cars which are less than EURO 2...
 
One of our Member of Parliament here in Canada tried to pass a bill to have all cars ten years or older taken off the road so I killed her ... Na .. just kidding but I`m sure glad that bill didn`t pass.
Unless they plan to provide you with another car, or double market value of your current car, that'll never fly, anywhere.
 
Rod knock and lifter ticking sounds quite different if you've heard at least one of those sounds before. Lifters sometimes get quiet, and they almost never get louder with RPM. Whereas if your rods are knocking, it will get louder and more chaotic as the RPMs get higher.

See, thats what i thought but the guy that towed my car said something about lifters and since then i wasnt sure. I personally thought it was the dreaded crankwalk that people kept talking about but it doesnt sound like a crank bearing, ive had that before, but honestly, not entirely sure.
But yes, its definitly the "gets more chaotic as the rpms rise".

Anyway so about the Talon, swapping the AWD drivetrain in is not worth it is what i gather from that? From the Galant V6 to VR-4 swap i was involved with before, youd need to change the exhaust, Fuel tank, cut some stuff, fabricate some stuff, get axles and so on, i would assume its the same for the Eclipse then... Even if i had the entire drivetrain of the Talon?
And so if i found an Evo 3 or Eclipse 2G GST/GSX engine/drivetrain, would that make it easier aka, be a pretty straightforward bolt-in job?

Also, i know i know. Don´t plan on keeping it in a garage forever but Rust is a car-killer in Germany, TÜV be thanked. i want to get it properly sealed up first tho and couldnt afford that for this year and now that its broken and i have a "reliable second daily", i can take my time fixing the Eclipse to where it was or even improve on it.
I´ve dreamt about a nice F&F style Tuner for years, nothing crazy flashy just a nice clean build but with some actual performance behind it. This seems like a good opportunity.
 
The 1G DSM (Talon in your case) uses completely different subframes and fuel tanks than the 2G. It wont work. At best you can swap the engine in and go from there (even if it's a 6 bolt block, you can make some minor modifications to make it work).

EVO 3 subframes and fueltanks are also different and will not swap over to a DSM. However, if you find a 2g GSX and get the parts from that, it will work. You still need to do the same type of modification to your FWD GS chassis as you did in the V6 to VR-4 Galant swap. Moving the exhaust to one side, cutting up the driveshaft tunnel a bit, cutting off the old fuel tank bolts and inserting in new ones. And you'd need to swap your rear bearings on the hubs(knuckles) with bearings from a GSX so the axles can go through. If you have experience with these sorts of swaps or judging by what you wrote, if you have a friend who did a similar swap, I'm sure you can do the same to your GS if you find the required GSX parts, but it must be from a 2G!
 
The 1G DSM (Talon in your case) uses completely different subframes and fuel tanks than the 2G. It wont work. At best you can swap the engine in and go from there (even if it's a 6 bolt block, you can make some minor modifications to make it work).

EVO 3 subframes and fueltanks are also different and will not swap over to a DSM. However, if you find a 2g GSX and get the parts from that, it will work. You still need to do the same type of modification to your FWD GS chassis as you did in the V6 to VR-4 Galant swap. Moving the exhaust to one side, cutting up the driveshaft tunnel a bit, cutting off the old fuel tank bolts and inserting in new ones. And you'd need to swap your rear bearings on the hubs(knuckles) with bearings from a GSX so the axles can go through. If you have experience with these sorts of swaps or judging by what you wrote, if you have a friend who did a similar swap, I'm sure you can do the same to your GS if you find the required GSX parts, but it must be from a 2G!

Amazing, that helps a lot.
Now, one last question for that, if i was to go for a GST route instead, got any turbo (for example the given Talon), and bolt it up to my FWD Trans, any DSM engine and the Evo 1 2 3 engine would bolt straight on as long as the awd drivetrain doesnt come over as well, the Evo 4+ only works with engine-mount modifications because its flipped 180 degrees from what i know
did i get that right?
 
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Not quite. There are differences in the flywheels, and the blocks themselves. When we say "6 and 7 bolt engines", it refers to the amount of bolts that hold the flywheel to the crankshaft. All 4G63 engines from 1988-1991 are 6 bolt, and from 1992 onwards it's all 7 bolt (there are exceptions in 1.6 and 1.8L Mitsu and Hyundai engines). The flywheel is also different between FWD and AWD. They differ in diameter and number of teeth for the starter.

You should really look up the differences between 1G and 2G for starters, then comparisons to EVO 1 2 3. Forget the EVO 4+ stuff. The only things you can use from EVO 4 - 9 are the crank, rods and pistons. Personally i'm using EVO 7 rods/pistons.
 
Seems to me it all depends on what level of challenge you’re looking for. Doing an AWD conversion sounds like a very involved operation, meaning much time, effort, and money. Seems like getting a turbo motor of the same vintage as your car will provide a huge increase in power/ fun factor, and be fairly straightforward. For most driving in most conditions, you’ll never notice the awd/fwd difference, while the turbo/NA difference is obvious with ever row through the gears. If the rest of the car is in such nice shape, that’s also a big part of the experience, so drop in a turbo motor (and exhaust, etc.) and enjoy it.
 
So, i kept lookin around for a while and now found a 4G63T, according to the guy selling it it came out of a 2G GSX and is a 6 Bolt with Forged Pistons and a TD05H Turbo.
@Kryndon, you said a 6-Bolt would work with some minor modifications? I´m guessing there are some threads about that on here, got any thoughts on that tho?
 
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