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Transmission cooling

lowell

Proven Member
321
19
Apr 6, 2006
vancouver, BC_Canada
While my transmission is apart, I'm adding fittings to direct the returning oil to specific areas. After ruling out an internal spray bar setup, the next best thing seems to be splitting the return line on a manifold like this:
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The reverse lock bolt conveniently points to 2nd gear on the mesh side so that seems like a good place to start. Bored through with a -4AN fitting welded on:
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lowell

Proven Member
321
19
Apr 6, 2006
vancouver, BC_Canada
1st-4th return points fitted
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-8AN to the pump and temp sensor conveniently tapped into an existing boss
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lowell

Proven Member
321
19
Apr 6, 2006
vancouver, BC_Canada
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lowell

Proven Member
321
19
Apr 6, 2006
vancouver, BC_Canada
RB Racing 03-1040 pump, MT-90 fluid and the filter I haven't decided what micron size to use yet.

Transmission is a DSM AWD with an EVO I 2.571 1st, 1.60 2nd, stock ratio 1.115 3rd and 0.833 4th. 2nd, 3rd and 4th I converted to double syncro and 5th gear is an EVO III 0.617.

Electric Oil Feed and Scavenge Pumps
 

Spyder FX

Proven Member
571
4
Sep 15, 2002
Pahrump, Nevada
Thats impressive, what sort of temps do you think you'll see once it's all finished?
 

lowell

Proven Member
321
19
Apr 6, 2006
vancouver, BC_Canada
Hoping for 180-200F after a 25 min session. You don't have to use multiple returns lines, you could just return a single -6AN line on top of the oil rail.

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Stock drain plug machined for a 1/2" magnet

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Testing external case magnets.

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Internal magnet test

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Input shaft holding tool

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All assembled

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Stock magnet replaced with a slightly stronger piece. 32mm socket sticks to the case :)
 

ACM

Proven Member
679
55
Dec 11, 2002
Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts
Does a guy have to use all those return lines?
I was just hoping to cool the oil and let it slosh around like usual.

This setup does a lot more than simply cooling the trans fluid, this increases the trans' torque capacity significantly.
 

cioc

Proven Member
203
33
Aug 2, 2006
Sparta, New_Jersey
All I can say is WOW. I've been putting in a trans cooling system in my 1G that I was about to post pics of and now I'm afraid to for fear of being laughed at. This is really nice. My setup is aimed at just reducing overal temps and I simply used the drain and fill as the feed and return. I purchased everything directly through Setrab USA. Pump, lines, fittings, 150 Micron filter, 180 degree thermostat all came in one nice box. The only thing I had to fabricate was brackets for the cooler assembly. No welding, cutting or drilling other than 1 hole for the cooler bracket. Everything else uses factory intercooler mounting locations. Since I added the Quaife, I suspect my trans is getting well beyond the limits at the end of a 20 minute session. I have no data to substantiate its effectiveness but figured better is better.
 

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snowborder714

Moderator
16,159
320
Oct 15, 2006
Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
I've been wondering when you were going to create this thread, Lowell! I kept seeing your pictures pop up on FB and and in your gallery and had some questions on some of the pictures (which you've mostly answered).

Were you having issues before with temps, or is this more of a big preventative step? If issues, what types of things were you seeing after a 20-25 minute session?

What types of magnets are you using?
 

Scott McIntyre

DSM Wiseman
309
43
Mar 15, 2002
Halifax, NS_Canada
Here mine. Single feed & return, with a thermostat kit controlling its operation:

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lowell

Proven Member
321
19
Apr 6, 2006
vancouver, BC_Canada
Cioc: Nobody is going to laugh, unless of course you put that on a 2G n/t... How does the thermostat work in your setup?

Snowborder: I never had a temperature gauge, so I have no idea, but I was wearing out gears and bearings, along with a few breakages.
Guard Transmission : FAQ

Oil Temperature Life Expectancy
275-300º F 15 Hours
240º F 30 Hours

The magnets are regular neodymium N40's and are not high temperature rated. I'm going to compare magnetic strength with a new one after some running time. If there's any loss I'll switch to SmCo magnets. I was just servicing a TRE trans, and the magnet Jon puts in has plenty of pull. The problem is that you cannot clean it without opening the trans. Tapping the case for a removable magnet in that location would be helpful, as well as installing one behind the filter screen.

I'm hoping the external magnets will cause any broken gear teeth to stick to the case walls instead of being eaten up in the gear train. I've had a few failures where almost everything inside was scrapped. 2g 3/4 slider explosion destroyed a factory new trans, Quaife center diff case broke, got a Speed Design diff, broke 3rd gear, chipped the housing :( The last 3 transmissions were: broken stock 4th and 2 EVO III 4th gears.

Gearbox Magnetic Drain Plug Magnet Strength

Scott: Thanks for adding your parts list and pictures, very well organized.
 

bastarddsm

Proven Member
5,432
1,265
Aug 26, 2003
Mendota, Illinois
Can you explain the idea of the oiling, and how it will make the trans withstand more torque? I assume this is for some sort of a road race app? How much power are you making that you are tearing up transmissions like this? What are your feelings on the EvoIII 3rd and 4th gears being one less tooth and the intermediate shaft not being 1 tooth more to take up the differece?
 

lowell

Proven Member
321
19
Apr 6, 2006
vancouver, BC_Canada
Can you explain the idea of the oiling, and how it will make the trans withstand more torque? I assume this is for some sort of a road race app? How much power are you making that you are tearing up transmissions like this? What are your feelings on the EvoIII 3rd and 4th gears being one less tooth and the intermediate shaft not being 1 tooth more to take up the differece?

I'm not sure if it will withstand more torque, I just want it to run cool and all internals to stay well oiled. The stock oil rail, even with the holes enlarged can only do so much and in a hard right hand turn I'm pretty sure no oil is going across it.

Cooled oil being returned straight on to the gears should help. If you look at the fill level compared to 3rd and 4th gears, 4th gear especially will pick up very little splash oiling. Again in a hard right hander I could see 4th gear being completely out of the oil bath.

Power, 660hp on high boost, 600hp on moderate boost.

I'm not sure if the EVO III stuff is any better or worse strength wise, they all seem to break just as easily :cry: The ratios aren't ideal and I find the RPM drop to the EVO III 5th gear to be too much.
 

bastarddsm

Proven Member
5,432
1,265
Aug 26, 2003
Mendota, Illinois
I'm not sure if it will withstand more torque, I just want it to run cool and all internals to stay well oiled. The stock oil rail, even with the holes enlarged can only do so much and in a hard right hand turn I'm pretty sure no oil is going across it.

Cooled oil being returned straight on to the gears should help. If you look at the fill level compared to 3rd and 4th gears, 4th gear especially will pick up very little splash oiling. Again in a hard right hander I could see 4th gear being completely out of the oil bath.

Power, 660hp on high boost, 600hp on moderate boost.

I'm not sure if the EVO III stuff is any better or worse strength wise, they all seem to break just as easily :cry: The ratios aren't ideal and I find the RPM drop to the EVO III 5th gear to be too much.

Ok, thats kinda what I figured. For us mere mortals that live our lifes one 1/4 mile at a time, we don't need to worry about this stuff.

It's good to know your making a lot more power to break stuff, than I'm currently making. Are you having any of your gears shot peened or detailed?
 

underradar92

Proven Member
1,002
19
Oct 19, 2005
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
This setup does a lot more than simply cooling the trans fluid, this increases the trans' torque capacity significantly.

I've seen that this can happen, can you share how this works? Fluid cushioning of the gears or like that?
 

underradar92

Proven Member
1,002
19
Oct 19, 2005
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Some interesting reading Cooling and Lubrication of High-speed Helical Gears

One of the Porsche guys said spraying into the mesh creates more heat... idk.

This statement, from the article seems to support the Porsche guy's claim.

Quote: Several sources can cause higher tooth temperatures at high pitch line speed. According to AGMA 925-A03 (2003), "For pitch line velocities above 80 m/s, churning loss, expulsion of oil between meshing teeth and windage loss become important heat sources that must be considered." End quote.

Not sure what our specific pitch line velocity may be, that seems a deciding factor.

Not sure what to do with my earlier belief.
 
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lowell

Proven Member
321
19
Apr 6, 2006
vancouver, BC_Canada
3rd gear is about 0.24m circumference, so 9000rpm = 2160m/minute = 36m/s. Any ME's here?
 
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