tranny, transfercase and diff ratios. what goes with what ?

[deadring]

hi,

i bought a a second talon real cheap it's a 1990 and the tranny is blown and it's got no transfer case..


the output shaft off the tranny thats goes on the trafser case has 22 splines... i called at a few places and they it's supposed to have 20 - 21. and i checked on a 1993 year CAN have 21-22-23 splines..

now if i'm not dumb i MAY think that the tranny is from another year later.

transmission number is : w5m332nobk and the other : bjv3175/nobk

questions:

1- how can i know what differential i need cause i dont know if its been changed.. i think the guy thats had the car before may have put the another tranny without checking ratios with the differentiel and thats why there are no more splines on the shaft that goes from the tranny to the tranfer case.. well that and having two 235 tires in the back and two 205 in the front..some people aren't ment to drive motor vehicules

2- now what transfer do i need from what year and is the differentiel ration change? of is it all the same ??

3- anybody got ideas what should i do / buy before i get this tranny rebuilted ? at the cose of 1200 $ can. with a nice 1 year warranty ???


i don't wanna buy stuff that won't fit


Deadring

 

[psychlow]

I'm in the same situation regaring transmissions... I'm about to put a 93 trans in my 90, and I have no idea if it'll work....

As far as the varying tire width, that's not a huge issue, as long as the heights are the same....

To me it sounds like it was a victim of a leaky transfer case that locked up, and it took the output shaft of the transmission with it.

Shitty work computers' internet.......

 

[deadring]

the tires were not the same height. for every 100 turn of the front wheels the back wheels would turn 95.. that turn has to go somewhere and puts stress on the system.


anyways i don't know what do about my situation.. i need to know what goes with what


deadring

 

[psychlow]

Originally posted by deadring
anyways i don't know what do about my situation.. i need to know what goes with what

Me too!

Where'd you read that about the 93's being 21-22-23 spline?

In my case since my center diff's fine, I wonder if I could just throw that into my new trans and go if the splinage is different...........

 

[98TsiAWD]

Email www.teamrip.com or www.shepracing.com
Im sure either would be glad to help.

 

[deadring]

psychlow,


the T C wont fit on the tranny if if ya ont have the right number of splines.. and if you change the tranny and TC i don't know if the diffenrential will be alright since there seems to be a few models there too.. so if ya end up with a tranny , tc and a diffrent differential it might go boom on ya

as for where i got info that they have different years with different splines is from a scrap yard and chrysler dealers..i called them both and thats what they told me.. and guess what i can't even find a tranny for my car.

too many questions , not enough answers... we need info !!

as for emailling shepracing, the guy sells trannies and rebuilts them i don't think bugging him with my problem will help since i know i won't buy a tranny form him.. not because i don't trust him belive me i do.. if i had the cash i would but getting that tranny crossed over to quebec,canada will have a HEAVY handling fee on my arse plus the cost of the shipping. so this is out of the question...but if he can post here and helps us out.. ( me and psychlow) i would dearly appreciate it !



deadring

 

[slvrstingray]

here's the real deal...

90 transmissions have 22 spline t-cases...
91+ trannys have 23 spline t-cases...

reguardless of year, all the AWD transmissions have the same center diff. and final drive gear ratios.

In terms of 1st gear... The GVR-4 transmission has a taller 1st gear, which will give you better 60ft times in the drag. 1st gear can go up to 5mph faster than the AWD DSM tranny.

Reguardless, all of the AWD transmissions are interchangable except for the ones out of the Galant GS-X. It has very tall gearing and it will not interchange with a dsm unless you get a different Rear-end with matching Ratios. You will blow the center diff if you don't change the rear diff. That goes both ways. AWD DSM > Galant GSX vice versa.

if you are buying from a used japanese dealer. They will give you a 22 spline GVR-4 tranny. and those usually come with t-cases. Watch out also for the AWD colt Transmission. it will bolt up, but the bell housing is too short/shallow and the clutch fork will hit the pressure plate. "doesn't work."

With all this mixing and matching, there are 3 concerns... 1. is that the shift arms where the linkages bolt up to may be differnt lengths. you will want to find a tranny with the same length arms, or you will have trouble with the odd or even gears wanting to pop out of gear. 2. If you have or haven't done the t-case factory recall, and you change your t-case, it will leak unless you change the seals in the t-case and yolk. 3. There are some GVR-4 transmissions from japan that have the AWD to 2WD swiching capability. The swithch is a very cool feature, but the transmission itself is out of an older galant and is weaker in design.

One last thing... im' not quite sure if it will work but i do know that the outputshaft for the t-case comes out very easily. it is held in by a "steel ball" which is held in by the viscus coupler. if you want to keep the same t-case, the output shafts may be interchangeable... there is a very good chance that they interchange, but i don't know for sure. "let me know if they do!"

Good luck! hope this helps, if you have any more questions, feel free to PM me. BTW i have a couple of extra 22 and 23 spline t-cases if your interested in buying one.

Ray

 

[psychlow]

You, sir, are a god.

You have a PM.

 

[redX90]

I just recently built a tranny using 90 guts and an early 92 case and TC in my 90 GSX. What I found out was that the pitch on the casing gear of the center diff was a different pitch between the 92 and 90 so they were not compatible. I found the both output shafts 22 and 23 spline were compatible with the either center diff. I also used the complete 92 shifter and levers at tranny. All works awesome but I regret welding the center diff. When removing output shaft it may be tight but should come out with some effort, but if the ball dislodges from center diff you'll have to pull the VC and put it back.

 

[4pistons]

without checking ratios with the differentiel and thats why there are no more splines on the shaft that goes from the tranny to the tranfer case

I doubt this is from gear ratio mismatch. That usually causes the VC to burn up since that is the weak link. The output shaft splines wear off when the center diff is shot and allows too much slop in the endplay. Then the shart moves laterally too much and files the splines off. That is probably why you bought it cheap and didn't get a t-case. The splines wore away, the car went nowhere, the guy took off the t-case saw the fragged splines and gave up.

the outputshaft for the t-case comes out very easily. it is held in by a "steel ball" which is held in by the viscus coupler. if you want to keep the same t-case, the output shafts may be interchangeable

Yes, they are as long as the spline count in the t-case is the same as the output shaft. It can be removed by taking off the VC (be ready to catch the little steel ball, it MUST go back in the same place) and tapping the shaft out. Inspect the t-case you buy for the same spline wear in it. You must repalce the splined shaft/gear if it is or you're asking for trouble.

I regret welding the center diff.

I love mine, glad I did it. I've been driving on it for 4+ years with no regrets... and no more spline wear either.

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[keltalon]

here's the real deal...

90 transmissions have 22 spline t-cases...
91+ trannys have 23 spline t-cases...

reguardless of year, all the AWD transmissions have the same center diff. and final drive gear ratios.

In terms of 1st gear... The GVR-4 transmission has a taller 1st gear, which will give you better 60ft times in the drag. 1st gear can go up to 5mph faster than the AWD DSM tranny.

Reguardless, all of the AWD transmissions are interchangable except for the ones out of the Galant GS-X. It has very tall gearing and it will not interchange with a dsm unless you get a different Rear-end with matching Ratios. You will blow the center diff if you don't change the rear diff. That goes both ways. AWD DSM > Galant GSX vice versa.

if you are buying from a used japanese dealer. They will give you a 22 spline GVR-4 tranny. and those usually come with t-cases. Watch out also for the AWD colt Transmission. it will bolt up, but the bell housing is too short/shallow and the clutch fork will hit the pressure plate. "doesn't work."

With all this mixing and matching, there are 3 concerns... 1. is that the shift arms where the linkages bolt up to may be differnt lengths. you will want to find a tranny with the same length arms, or you will have trouble with the odd or even gears wanting to pop out of gear. 2. If you have or haven't done the t-case factory recall, and you change your t-case, it will leak unless you change the seals in the t-case and yolk. 3. There are some GVR-4 transmissions from japan that have the AWD to 2WD swiching capability. The swithch is a very cool feature, but the transmission itself is out of an older galant and is weaker in design.

One last thing... im' not quite sure if it will work but i do know that the outputshaft for the t-case comes out very easily. it is held in by a "steel ball" which is held in by the viscus coupler. if you want to keep the same t-case, the output shafts may be interchangeable... there is a very good chance that they interchange, but i don't know for sure. "let me know if they do!"

Good luck! hope this helps, if you have any more questions, feel free to PM me. BTW i have a couple of extra 22 and 23 spline t-cases if your interested in buying one.

Ray

this is a damn lie!! the center differential is indeed different. you have a pre 92 center dif and 92and later center diff. the gear ratio is different the pre 92 are taller. know what you are talking about before posting

 

[RedAllWheel]

Slvrstingray is 100% correct, all the center diffs are interchangeable and so are the final drive ratios (aside from the one model Galant and JDM trannies), and you can interchange the 1990/22 spline output shaft and 1991+/23 spline output shafts as long as you mate it with the matching 22 or 23 spline transfer case.

 

[keltalon]

Slvrstingray is 100% correct, all the center diffs are interchangeable and so are the final drive ratios (aside from the one model Galant and JDM trannies), and you can interchange the 1990/22 spline output shaft and 1991+/23 spline output shafts as long as you mate it with the matching 22 or 23 spline transfer case.

by the way we are not talking about transfer cases we are discussing center differential. the transfer and output shaft are totally different than the center diff!

the moderator should delete this misinformed information. you cannot use a center diff out of a 1990 and put it in a 1992.5 and up. i rebuild these trannies all the time. the tranny will not rotate after everything is back together. if you think it will work try it and see and email me back later with an apology for your ingnorance.

moderator please save the dsm cummuity from this incorrect information.
thank you much

keltalon :thumb

 

[RedAllWheel]

First of all Keltalon, thiers no need to get bent out of shape and call for the moderator to step in, this is a forum open to discussions, and different peoples experiences. My experience is the gears(on the center diff and shafts) are the same size and # of teeth, the problem is the cut of the teeth, and your rite, the 90 is different I neglected to add that in my last reply, the ends of the teeth on the later model gears are cut almost to a point, this was a upgrade to reduce noise and drag on the gears. Where as the end of the 90 teeth are flat so they don't mesh with the later years and cause everything to lock up when you bolt a trans together with mismatched gears.

 

[redX90]

Your'e dead on there RAW. I recently switched back to a stock CD (from welded) but the one I acquired needed some work. I used the the insides from my good 92 in the 90. All is happy now. So now I have a 92 tranny case, 90 guts, 90 CD with 92 guts, 23 spline output shaft, 23 spline TC and 92 shifter. Oh yeah and just to brag, a 4 bolt in rear. It's nice all the data we have on this forum. Takes a lot of experimentation out of situations that have presented themselves with my DSMs.

 

[RedAllWheel]

Good sheiza RedX, sounds like you have a bunch of experience with your DSM... Now you have all the good parts in your 1990, for the most part.

 

[redX90]

Yeah. I also have a newer model CPU and all the goodies I had to change with it to get it to work and a new model interior with Black Leather. Its funny though. the list of things I've done is still smaller that the want to do list.

 

[Steve92talon]

So sorry to bring back a old topic but I'm having this same interchange issue. My car came with a transmission with the smaller output shaft with a 4 bolt rear diff. I swapped the trans and transfercase with the parts one supplied with the car after about 10k the rear diff in my car has smoked the clutches in it like really awful smell. The transfer case is toast as well it got so hot the shaft is discolored on the pinion. So I think no problem swap in the other transfer case. Nope I cant the shaft is too big on this transmission and the other transfer case wont go on. So what have I damaged, is my gear ratios all messed up causing the transfer case and rear end to burn up after miles of highway driving. Car ran beautiful till suddenly the back end started trying to pass my like a wheel was loose. So now I sit with the badly shifting trans and a burnt up tcase I cant reuse a burnt up 4 bolt rear diff. A spare transfer case that wont attach to my current transmission and a 3 bolt diff I cant use any parts from to replace the 4 bolt. What do I do I suspect I have a automatic rear diff and it's a 5speed trans now. Can the 3 bolt gears fit a 4 bolt or am I stuck running just fwd till I get a correct rear end.