timing belt slipped!!

[LKWTSI]

My timing belt lost some teeth and the car virtually died at idle. I know I goosed it not 5 minutes before and she never hesitated until it died a couple of minutes later.
I heard some weird noise from the cam belt area and by the time I got to the end of the road it died. I towed a mile home and put it in the garage. I did a bunch of trouble shooting and I just found the culprit.

So my question is how much damage can I really expect. I can't start to pull it apart for a few days, so I was wondering what's the BEST case scenario. How bad do you have to be on it to do some real damage?? could I be as lucky as only a timing belt replacement or is it instant bent valves and such

 

[92AWDHX40]

Ive had this happen valves are probably bent some of them. Thats just how it usually ends up, damage enough too stop her running. do a compression test, but if it wont start you know the problem.

 

[LKWTSI]

Well I tried pulling the engine through all the way by hand and WADDA YA know it stops hard at one of the cylinders.

I guess the head is coming off and hopefully no other major damage to the piston.

Here's the culprit.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Yep valve damage, thats prettybad been there so i know how it is. Replace everything look for the kits, there nice. All major service is done to my car< I just replaced everthing and did the bse kit.

 

[BrokenTsi]

The BEST case scenario is that the valve kissed the pistons. After removing the head, you'll probably find that the valves nicked the pistons. If thats the case, you're still in good shape. You can get away with deburring the polishing up the dent marks that will be in the valve reliefs on the pistons. Stocks pistons are pretty strong, so I doubt that they are cracked or anything.

Have your local machine shop replacce the valves and deck the head (if necessary), or buy a good used head somewhere if money is an issue.
Change out the headgasket, install some ARP head studs if you havent already, and order a timing belt.

Now, normally, timing belts dont do what yours did unless there is a reason for it. Either something got loose and fell in there or something that rotates with the timing belt stopped rotating (ie. oil pump gear).

If it were me, I would replace all timing components such as pulleys, the hydraulic tensioner, crank sprocket gear, and I would also remove the front case and inspect the oil pump itself and check for wear.

Hopefully this is not caused by some type of oil blockage or starvation either in the oil pump or the cams.

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

Looked like it broke because it got oil on it. Gotta keep it clean.

 

[joe sobo]

The BEST case scenario is that the valve kissed the pistons. After removing the head, you'll probably find that the valves nicked the pistons. If thats the case, you're still in good shape. You can get away with deburring the polishing up the dent marks that will be in the valve reliefs on the pistons. Stocks pistons are pretty strong, so I doubt that they are cracked or anything.

Have your local machine shop replacce the valves and deck the head (if necessary), or buy a good used head somewhere if money is an issue.
Change out the headgasket, install some ARP head studs if you havent already, and order a timing belt.

Now, normally, timing belts dont do what yours did unless there is a reason for it. Either something got loose and fell in there or something that rotates with the timing belt stopped rotating (ie. oil pump gear).

If it were me, I would replace all timing components such as pulleys, the hydraulic tensioner, crank sprocket gear, and I would also remove the front case and inspect the oil pump itself and check for wear.

Hopefully this is not caused by some type of oil blockage or starvation either in the oil pump or the cams.

why would you say to replace the crank sprocket gear? i have never heard of one wearing, cause the belt is rubber, and that gear is metal.

 

[LKWTSI]

I plan on doing the front case and water pump as I've had a oil leak from around the oil pump for the last year. Nothing major other than 3-4 drips after a good run, but it's been the cause of my underside mess and I've been waiting for the New Year and some spare money, before I tore it down. NOW I have to. so other than getting the head work done, assuming I didn't hole a piston, is it possible to do the front timing case and such in the car or is this whole deal better done with the engine out??

 

[Project2G]

I hope you didn't keep trying to start it.

 

[#40Fan]

You know he did.

From the looks of the writing on the cam gears, a T-Belt job or other head work has been done recently.

 

[BrokenTsi]

why would you say to replace the crank sprocket gear? i have never heard of one wearing, cause the belt is rubber, and that gear is metal.

Because I'm a maintenance freak, and I order new ones every season. And they arent all that expensive.

 

[LKWTSI]

You know he did.

From the looks of the writing on the cam gears, a T-Belt job or other head work has been done recently.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was that dumb.

For the record, I tried twice. Once when it first died and once when I got it home and when I saw the cam gears not moving I knew something was really bad.

Also what is your definition of recent?? The head was replaced 2 years ago by the previous owner. I'm not in the habit of buying cars and assuming everything was done wrong and immediately go and rebuild the engine.

 

[BrokenTsi]

Well, that timing belt IS pretty saturated and you can tell there is an oil leak somewhere. A timing belt is a far cry from an engine rebuild, but when owning a DSM or any car for that matter, especially with zero tolerance engine, there is never a bad timing to do a timing belt job or fix oil leaks.

Losing a timing belt is never fun. I hope you can get out of this as cheap as possible with minimal damage.

 

[Dewayne Waldron]

Yea, I had this problem, it sucks. My oil panwas leaking on the timing side and caused the belt to do the same as yours. 1,300 later she's running like a champ. Just make sure you fix those leaks before putting another belt on or you'll just keep having the same problems.

 

[LKWTSI]

I am not trying to excuse myself for not having done a belt replacement or for any other maintenance. I knew I had an oil leak. The blow by on to the belt is an after effect and in hind sight maybe I should have decided sooner than later as to whether or not to do a gasket replacement and new belt at the same time.

Point is I didn't and I am paying the price for it. I know this has happened a good many times to many many others and I wanted feedback as to the possibilities, not a "HA HA, should have done that sooner" as was implied by #40Fan.

I have the utmost respect for everyone on this site and for their experience and knowledge. If I wanted to have my nose rubbed in it, I'd ask my dog to sh#t in my seat.

Thanks for the continued feedback and advice.

 

[gstryyder]

when you do your timing belt job... buy a gates. bad conditions for a timing belt to be in (oil n all) but still, belt looks thin. i have seen the difference between different manufacturers of our timing belts and you can SEE the quality difference.

 

[LKWTSI]

when you do your timing belt job... buy a gates. bad conditions for a timing belt to be in (oil n all) but still, belt looks thin. i have seen the difference between different manufacturers of our timing belts and you can SEE the quality difference.

Thanks for the heads up. Will be doing a bunch of research on parts for this rebuild as I plan on this lasting.

 

[tma1c]

That doesnt look to good. Good luck bro

 

[#40Fan]

I didn't mean to bust your balls like that. I guess when you type something it is hard to convey the way you are thinking it without elaborating a whole lot.

Who hasn't lost a timing belt and then tried to start the engine afterwards? I guarantee you won't find anyone on here that hasn't, myself included.

Take your time and do a lot of reading and you can get it fixed. Check out ebay for a remanufactured head. Might be cheaper than having yours fixed.

 

[LKWTSI]

That doesnt look to good. Good luck bro

Yeah I know,

I'll post pic's of the damage once I get the head off in the next day or so.

Live and learn I guess.

I didn't mean to bust your balls like that. I guess when you type something it is hard to convey the way you are thinking it without elaborating a whole lot.

Who hasn't lost a timing belt and then tried to start the engine afterwards? I guarantee you won't find anyone on here that hasn't, myself included.

Take your time and do a lot of reading and you can get it fixed. Check out ebay for a remanufactured head. Might be cheaper than having yours fixed.

I appreciate your apology. I know what you mean about conveying emotion in text..doesn't always work. I am still p'd at myself, which may have dialed in my short fuse a little also.

So thanks. Like I said, one thing I've learned from this site over a lot of others, is the majority of folks on here have suffered or have nearly suffered a loss like this and everyone in the DSM community seems to stand behind guys and help where they can. So for all of you out there THANKS.

 

[BrokenTsi]

Its all good.

Im tough on my friends about their cars because I dont want anyone to go thru what I have been thru with a DSM.

You live and learn. Its a good time to upgrade and learn more about your car. Have you pulled the head off yet or done a compression test?

 

[LKWTSI]

Its all good.

Im tough on my friends about their cars because I dont want anyone to go thru what I have been thru with a DSM.

You live and learn. Its a good time to upgrade and learn more about your car. Have you pulled the head off yet or done a compression test?

It's Sunday lunchtime East coast. I'm just about to go and start getting the head pulled. I'll post pic's as I go.

Wish me luck

 

[mitsuproracer]

Hope everything turns out OK man. +1 with a few others, make sure you get a good quality T belt when it's time to put one on, and do it right the 1st time.

 

[ian_maham]

Just for peace my own piece of mind, who was the manufacturer of that timing belt? OEM? Gator? Just curious.

 

[LKWTSI]

Well got the head off and ALL 4 pistons got nicked. My wife is away with the camera, so I'm waiting on a buddy to come over and take some pic's.

The nicks don't seem to be to bad, but this is my first experience with this type of failure, so I don't know how much is too bad yet. I have to leave on business Monday, and won't be back until after New Year, so I guess at least I know what's in store for my return home.

I think the head will definitely need replacing or some serious work. about half the exhaust studs stripped out. So once I get the valves out and have a look over the seats, I may ask my engine shop guy thinks. I'm in for new lifters while this thing is off and maybe new cams??

Definitely going to go and do front timing cover and oil pump gaskets. Anyone want to chime in about doing the BS removal? is it worth it or not?

Anyway, as far as to the make of the T-belt, I can only guess it's a cheap no name or OEM. The guy I bought it from was a fly by night mechanic and my total lack of DSM knowledge when I bought it, I never questioned it's integrity. For all I know he put a new head on it and stuck the old T-belt back on.

Ah well, my loss and nobody to blame but me for not doing it when I thought I should.

I hope this works.

Please post a reply if they don't.

But here's a couple of pic's of the head and piston damage.

Thanks guys.

T-Belt Slipped pictures by LKWTSI - Photobucket