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Timing belt job parts questions

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XC92

Proven Member
1,561
356
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
Yep, yet another thread asking about which parts to get for a complete timing belt job. I'm currently in the final stages of rebuilding the manual trans on my '92 Talon TSi AWD and when it's done I'm going to tackle the TB job. I'll be replacing everything, both belts, idlers, tensioners, front seals, etc. It's only been 40k miles since the last one but over 20 years, so it's overdue.

My car is stock and will probably stay that way, at most MAYBE about 50-100HP someday, so 300HP tops. The only thing I know is that I'm getting an OEM hydraulic tensioner, because literally everyone says so, and an Aisin water pump, because it's supposed to be as good if not the same as the OEM one.

As for belts, I still haven't decided between OEM and Gates (standard, not racing). And as for the 3 pulleys, it's also either OEM or Gates/Dayco (pretty sure the latter are the same).

I know this has been asked and answered a million times, but I'm asking again because Mitsubishi doesn't actually make most of these parts, and like all automakers is known to change sourcing from time to time, so advice from say 2016 might no longer apply.

I understand that in the past they've rebadged Conti, Dayco and Aisin parts as their own. Not sure who they're using these days for these parts. So if an "OEM" belt or pulley is actually made by an aftermarket parts maker and the latter are a lot cheaper, I'd just as soon go with the latter.

If I do go aftermarket, it'll probably be either the Gates kit:


Or OEM belts and a Dayco pulley kit, that I believe is identical to the pulleys in the Gates kit:


I think I've read that the Dayco/Gates pulleys are what Mitsubishi sources for its OEM ones. Can anyone verify that? What about belts? If not, are they still pretty good, or junk? If OEM is genuinely better, I'll probably go with that. But otherwise, why not save some money?
 
I can`t really answer your question but thought I would mention that you can use Rockauto as a reference guide to part numbers..When you find your part there you can click on information and it will tell you OEM or mr# I believe you are correct in saying Dayco/Gates are OEM replacement parts.
 
The reason you DON'T want to skimp on the timing components is simple.....do you want the motor to jump time 5-10k down the road because a pulley wore out prematurely or god forbid you use a non OEM tensioner and it bellies up and has no tension and then you have bent valves and A LOT of $$$ to fix, not including the down time.
On timing components for 4g motors, I will say use OEM and rest peacefully at night until it is time to change it again. I have ran into some Gates pulleys that didn't last as long as I thought that they should have.
The Gates belts are fine, I have run them and OEM Evo belts (I like even better) if I am not installing Racing belts.
Just food for thought.
Marty
 
Yep, yet another thread asking about which parts to get for a complete timing belt job. I'm currently in the final stages of rebuilding the manual trans on my '92 Talon TSi AWD and when it's done I'm going to tackle the TB job. I'll be replacing everything, both belts, idlers, tensioners, front seals, etc. It's only been 40k miles since the last one but over 20 years, so it's overdue.

My car is stock and will probably stay that way, at most MAYBE about 50-100HP someday, so 300HP tops. The only thing I know is that I'm getting an OEM hydraulic tensioner, because literally everyone says so, and an Aisin water pump, because it's supposed to be as good if not the same as the OEM one.

As for belts, I still haven't decided between OEM and Gates (standard, not racing). And as for the 3 pulleys, it's also either OEM or Gates/Dayco (pretty sure the latter are the same).

I know this has been asked and answered a million times, but I'm asking again because Mitsubishi doesn't actually make most of these parts, and like all automakers is known to change sourcing from time to time, so advice from say 2016 might no longer apply.

I understand that in the past they've rebadged Conti, Dayco and Aisin parts as their own. Not sure who they're using these days for these parts. So if an "OEM" belt or pulley is actually made by an aftermarket parts maker and the latter are a lot cheaper, I'd just as soon go with the latter.

If I do go aftermarket, it'll probably be either the Gates kit:


Or OEM belts and a Dayco pulley kit, that I believe is identical to the pulleys in the Gates kit:


I think I've read that the Dayco/Gates pulleys are what Mitsubishi sources for its OEM ones. Can anyone verify that? What about belts? If not, are they still pretty good, or junk? If OEM is genuinely better, I'll probably go with that. But otherwise, why not save some money?
I just replaced a gates belt that broke on my son's car. Bent all the valves. Oem or possibly one of the Kevlar belts. I've not researched them. I'm done with gates timing belts. Just my opinion.
 
What front seals are you talking about?

FYI I just ordered a full set of OEM/Asin parts from JNZ and it totaled $418. (Belts, tensioners, pulleys, water pump) I saw higher prices out there for the same stuff, and lower prices involved non OEM with a lesser known quality uncertainty.

I like saving money too, but my time isn't worthless either, and it's tons of time to go back in and fix 2nd quality components. And then the bent valve risk. Not like its a headlight bulb.
 
I just replaced a gates belt that broke on my son's car. Bent all the valves. Oem or possibly one of the Kevlar belts. I've not researched them. I'm done with gates timing belts. Just my opinion.
Was that a regular black Gates belt Paul? I have one 6 bolt with that belt and another with a black OEM Evo belt. I do feel better about the Evo belt for sure and you know I usually only put on performance belts for the stuff I do.
I feel for ya man, thats where this all started for me....how many years ago....all bent valves and that car is still down (but motor is ready, needs trans help is all).
 
Was that a regular black Gates belt Paul?
I feel for ya man, thats where this all started for me....how many years ago....all bent valves and that car is still down (but motor is ready, needs trans help is all).
Yeah. Black gates belt. I did the work with an aisin tensioner. Broke in half at 50k.
 
Did it show obvious signs of wear or just give up the ghost?
 
What front seals are you talking about?

FYI I just ordered a full set of OEM/Asin parts from JNZ and it totaled $418. (Belts, tensioners, pulleys, water pump) I saw higher prices out there for the same stuff, and lower prices involved non OEM with a lesser known quality uncertainty.

I like saving money too, but my time isn't worthless either, and it's tons of time to go back in and fix 2nd quality components. And then the bent valve risk. Not like its a headlight bulb.
Front engine seals, crankshaft, camshaft, oil pump, whatever else. I'm replacing the rear seal since the trans it out so when I do the TB I might as well do those too.

And, since I'm likely to get any parts I order around the same time (unless it's backordered), it's less about time than money and quality. Yes, I'd like to save money, but of course quality comes first, especially with a TB.

I'm just asking if OEM really is better, for these parts, other than the hydraulic tensioner of course, since it's all sourced from aftermarket makers and some of these AM parts might be exactly the same parts.

Why pay $40 if the exact same part is just $20 only without Mitsubishi stamped on it? When I replaced the clutch I got an NSK throwout bearing that was the EXACT same part as OEM, for less than half the cost.

Was that a regular black Gates belt Paul? I have one 6 bolt with that belt and another with a black OEM Evo belt. I do feel better about the Evo belt for sure and you know I usually only put on performance belts for the stuff I do.
I feel for ya man, thats where this all started for me....how many years ago....all bent valves and that car is still down (but motor is ready, needs trans help is all).
I forgot about the EVO belt. That's the one with Kevlar, right? Maybe that's my best bet, for peace of mind, the OEM Kevlar TB, the standard OEM balance belt, and of course the OEM hydraulic tensioner. Just have to decide about the pulleys then.

The reason you DON'T want to skimp on the timing components is simple.....do you want the motor to jump time 5-10k down the road because a pulley wore out prematurely or god forbid you use a non OEM tensioner and it bellies up and has no tension and then you have bent valves and A LOT of $$$ to fix, not including the down time.
On timing components for 4g motors, I will say use OEM and rest peacefully at night until it is time to change it again. I have ran into some Gates pulleys that didn't last as long as I thought that they should have.
The Gates belts are fine, I have run them and OEM Evo belts (I like even better) if I am not installing Racing belts.
Just food for thought.
Marty
Well sure, of course, always get quality parts, especially critical ones like these. What I was asking was whether the Gates/Dayco ones were quality parts, if not the exact same as OEM. It's not like I was thinking of getting some no-name parts off eBay.
 
Honestly, if I had one I would send it to you. I would put a performance balance shaft belt on like this one. Those belts are small and when one goes out, a lot of times it takes out the perfectly good timing belt with it.
And for me, I just pay the price and put OEM pulleys and tensioners on. It is worth it to me since I have been in Pauls situation myself.
 
And I'd pay you for it! :thumb:

I didn't know about this one. $27 isn't bad for a BB. Is this Kevlar and is it supposed to be better than OEM? And I'm aware of the damage a bad BB can do.
 
Yes it is a Gates Racing belt. It is better than the original balance shaft belt.
I will look around and see if I have a racing balance shaft belt, if so I will get some info from you and mail it to you. 2 of the 3 cars I have don't use the BS belt anyway and I do use Gates Blue Racing timing belts so if I got a "set" I probably didn't use the BS belt.
Dam Paul, that sucks. Just as I was saying that belt is a little dinky belt.
 
Yes it is a Gates Racing belt. It is better than the original balance shaft belt.
I will look around and see if I have a racing balance shaft belt, if so I will get some info from you and mail it to you. 2 of the 3 cars I have don't use the BS belt anyway.
Wow that would be greatly appreciated but seriously I have to pay you for it, unless you want to do a swap but I doubt that I have anything that would interest you.
 
I am not sure I have one, but they come in the timing belt kits and I have bought that kit before, at least once, when I first started fooling around with these little monsters.
 
Thanks, let me know. I'm not tackling the TB job till later this month at the earliest, so no rush. First need to complete the trans rebuild, shakedown cruise, some other work I need to do on the car, etc.
 
I was about to place an order with JNZ for driveline and brake parts, but I'll look into this as well. Thanks.

So, after a bit more research, looks like I'll get the OEM Evo timing & balance belts and of course hydraulic tensioners. Probably overkill for my situation but what the hell it's cheap insurance and you don't do this that often (at least the way I drive).

So I have to decide which pulleys to get. Probably the "Whitelist" idler and tensioner ones from JNZ, which has them each for around $30. If so, would the Gates balance tensioner for $14 at RockAuto be ok, or should I get OEM on that as well?

I'm approaching $4000 for the restoration which for some might seem like nothing but for me is quite a lot, so reasonable savings here and there are desirable.
 
I'm curious how many people use the white box items for timing components without issue. Call me paranoid or misinformed, but I've always thought of the white box items as manufacturer blems and 2nd rates that weren't trash, but didn't quite make it through QC to send in for the logo box. I mean, where else do those kind of parts end up? I don't think they scrap them, they get sold off in white boxes cheap. Cosmetic blemishes on timing components I could work with, but if a pully or idler has a slight wobble or extra drag when spinning, that kind of thing I'd want to steer clear of in many situations.
 
So I have to decide which pulleys to get. Probably the "Whitelist" idler and tensioner ones from JNZ, which has them each for around $30. If so, would the Gates balance tensioner for $14 at RockAuto be ok, or should I get OEM on that as well?
Oem for peace of mind.

if that wasnt an option I’d be more apt to leave the old oem pulley on there than replace it with a $14 aftermarket.
 
I get the sense that any reputable vendor wouldn't carry a bad part posing as a good one. Some of them sell low-end parts, but they don't hide the fact that it's low end. One bad incident and years or decades of your good name is trashed.

Oem for peace of mind.

if that wasnt an option I’d be more apt to leave the old oem pulley on there than replace it with a $14 aftermarket.
Perhaps, but it's not quantified so I've got to wonder. Pretty much everything one reads about timing parts is anecdotal, not scientific.
 
I'm curious how many people use the white box items for timing components without issue. Call me paranoid or misinformed, but I've always thought of the white box items as manufacturer blems and 2nd rates that weren't trash, but didn't quite make it through QC to send in for the logo box. I mean, where else do those kind of parts end up? I don't think they scrap them, they get sold off in white boxes cheap. Cosmetic blemishes on timing components I could work with, but if a pully or idler has a slight wobble or extra drag when spinning, that kind of thing I'd want to steer clear of in many situations.
I’ve been selling OEM parts, and working on these cars for 25 years now. I was/am a HUGE advocate for OEM parts.

That said, over said time, I’ve watched OEM, Mitsu water pumps got from $68 retail to almost $200.

I’ve also watched Gates change supply lines for pulleys, going from the OEM manufacturer who supplies Mitsu, to a different brand, to yet another brand which they laser etch their logo onto.

The “Whitebox” pulleys we now list available in our timing kits are not “2nd hand” “deformed”, etc. They are simply ordered in bulk from overseas from the manufacturer who provides them to Mitsu.

This doesn’t apply to all parts. Some are still under agreement to be only sold to Mitsu, and are either blocked for sale as a “manufacturer only” part, or are outrageously expensive to buy without going through Mitsu, who has a contract with said supplier. I just ran into this issue with a bearing I was trying to buy in bulk, but the manufacturer sells at $600+, while Mitsu charges $50.

That said, we (JNZ), also sold Aisin pumps as “an aftermarket, but “viable” solution to OEM pumps for a while as opposed to “the same as factory” for many years, as the Aisin pumps were just *slightly* different. Now, they’re the same—casting and all. (See out post about Gates stuff mentioned above..).

We will continue to monitor and explore buying directly from the manufacturer when we can, and offer them as a cheaper, but same quality product, but it takes time, and reading the market. These caveats below are what makes it slow moving:

1) We have to be *fully* assured that the parts are, indeed, the *SAME* part. This involves working “down the food chain” so to speak, until we are able to reliably order them direct. We had an issue a year ago where we *thought* that we were getting them direct, then the *supposed* supplier changed up the part. We ended up eating almost $1000 in $30, beat pulleys that ended up going in the trash. I have a few remaining if you want them REALLY cheap and wish to risk your engine in the long run, but otherwise, they’re interesting paperweights collecting dust.

2) The market has to BEAR making it a worthwhile investment. Bulk orders from overseas take time (to track down, be able to buy) and cost money to ship said boxes/pallets. We currently have contacts to order more OEM equivalent parts, but buying $1500 of $30 parts means that we’re sitting on the investment. We have to make sure that they’ll move in a faster manner than just putting that $1500 into a fund that hedges inflation and provides a return. As we move more of these parts, we branch out further with it—it doesn’t happen overnight.

I can get into this deeper, but I’m actually away from the office until mid-day tomorrow, and am fat-fingering this from my phone.
 
Thanks, very helpful, and reassuring. So I've basically chosen 6 of the 7 core timing belt parts, the 2 belts (OEM Evo TB & Gates Racing BB), Aisin WP, OEM HT, and 2 Whitelist TB pulleys, leaving only the BS tensioner. Still inclined to go with the cheaper Gates but haven't made up my mind.
 
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