The Big ROD thread!

[PrimedTsi]

Ive been doing alot of research on which rods to put in my 6bolt buildup. And i seem to get various answers on some and barely anything on others. I would like to get the experts (aka ppl who have built and sustained BIG HP/Tq numbers and know what there motors can hold.

Eagles - 400hp to 650hp max??? I cant seem to find a straight answer on these. Some say they are equal to 1g 6bolt rods and some say they can hold almost as much as crowers. These seem to vary cause the old rods had smaller 5/16" arp instead of the new 3/8" arp's. They are used more commonly due to their cheaper prices and dont need machining for 2g or forged pistons.

Crowers - 700hp max - Most big time shops use these and say they are the best and cant be broken. Is this true?

Groden Billet Aluminum Rods - 1000hp+ CANNOT be streeted due to stress from heat and friction? But cheaper then crowers and many others. Need special clevite bearings.

Carrilo, Manley, Oliver, Pauter - 700hp+ Seem to all be equal to Crowers HP ratings but all use various domestic build types (a-beam, h-beam, i-beam). Normally more costly then crowers and are not that commonly used in 4g63/64 platforms.

I would like to hear comments on any or all these rods.

 

[Rick@AP]

Eagles rods are very good. Proof that something doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg for it to work well. HP ratings unknown. I haven't heard of any failing due to HP stress. Much better than the 1g 6 bolt big rods because of the ARP rod bolts and much lighter weight. More than enough rod for 95% of the people out there.

Crower rods are very good, but they weigh considerably more than the Eagles and will pretty much hold whatever you can throw at them.

Groden Alum. Rods are not worth the discussion unless you plan on making 800HP and only running at a track. They are what I call the worlds best disposable rods, because you are only going to get one maybe two seasons out of them.

The rest cost more, weigh more and are really not worth the added expense to most DSM'ers. Yes, they will hold under extreme abuse but they will also put a nice size hole in your pocket as well.

All my opinion, take or leave as much as you like.

 

[MNGSX]

Rods


IMHO I'd run the SCAT's before the eagles.....

 

[candela]

Eagles rods are very good. Proof that something doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg for it to work well. HP ratings unknown. I haven't heard of any failing due to HP stress. Much better than the 1g 6 bolt big rods because of the ARP rod bolts and much lighter weight. More than enough rod for 95% of the people out there.

I have no experience with the scats at all, but that price and packaeg seems like a good deal for people to start using them.

What are your goals?

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

I've never heard of the SCAT's and don't know any DSM vendor selling them.

 

[PrimedTsi]

Im running 20psi on my t3/t4 50 trim but i want to turn the boost up more. I would like to push this 50 trim to the max(28-30psi) and might decide to upgrade to a 56trim t3/t4. MY goals are to run a low 11 and would like to put 400hp to the ground (450ish at the crank?). I think these are resonable goals but i dont want to have to rebuild the motor a 2nd time cause of pushing the limits on the eagles. Opinions?

My best at the track has been a 11.89@121 at 20psi and c16. According to several shops i should be pushing 375 at the crank right now. This is all on the stock 7bolt so you all can see why im trying to go ahead and get this 6bolt built before i do actually break something. I just recieved my water/alcohol injection kit today so that should prolong the 7bolts life a little bit longer.

 

[Rogue_Ant]

Unless your car weighs~700lbs less then every other 2G, then your at more then 375crank hp.... Do a search for hp calculators... For that trap speed 375 doesn't cut it, not even close.




Rogue

 

[candela]

not only that but you can definetly pull mid 11's with that trap speed with some good driving (not sayign you can't). That turbo and motor should be close to suitable for your goals. I would just try to make it with that 7 bolt if it were me. Its not lik eyou will be running c16 and driving it daily like that... 7bolts can hold about what you are makign pretty safely.

 

[PrimedTsi]

This motor is gonna be a backup for when the 7bolt lets go. I know im pushing the barrier with this 7bolt and when it does go i dont want it to be down for half a year. Its such a shame to be tearing up a brand new 7bolt with only 8k miles on it. I put the first mile on this motor from mitsubishi 6 months ago, got to love extended warranty's

So the decision is Eagles are good enough for me?

 

[MNGSX]

Originally posted by L2RTSiAWD
I've never heard of the SCAT's and don't know any DSM vendor selling them.

That link goes to SBR and they sell them. They have about the widest selection of 4g63 rods anywhere right now.

 

[Rick@AP]

Frankly, I am scared of Scat products. I had a bad experience with one of their rods in my V8 days on a blown application. Hopefully their new products are much better.

 

[Rogue_Ant]

Originally posted by PrimedTsi

So the decision is Eagles are good enough for me?

Yes, Eagles are a very nice rod for the money, and will handle all the power the 50trim can produce, easily.



Rogue

 

[MNGSX]

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These look pretty good.....for high hp engines....

 

[PrimedTsi]

What about if i decide to upgrade to a 56trim. I know thats a much bigger step in lb/min but could the eagles hold everything that the 56trim could possibly put out?

Once again i am planning on sticking with the 50trim because thats what will make my goals happen...but we all now how are goals change after we break them

 

[Mo-Bo0st]

Originally posted by MNGSX
That link goes to SBR and they sell them. They have about the widest selection of 4g63 rods anywhere right now.

I see three rods on that site, Eagle/Crower/Manley.

 

[MNGSX]

Crower, Eagle, Scat, Carillo, Manley

I count five...

 

[SpoolinGSX]

I am currenctly building an engine right now in my shop at school. I have a set of Scat rods for the 6 bolt. All I can say about these rods so far is that the quality is really nice. They look almost exactly like eagle rods (h beam) and the quality control is immaculate. All the small and big ends are exactly equal and they are all exactly the same weight end to end. I can get the exact weight numbers tomorrow if anyone is interested in the weight. The company I got them through, www.importperformanceparts.net, told me on the phone that they were the same thing as eagle rods except the eagle rods were finished overseas, and that the scat rods were finished in the US. He also said he thought the quality on the scats was better.
Obviously all of this is theoretical so far, since the engine has not been run yet. The box they came in said they were good for 600 hp. Hopefully this is helpful for someone.

 

[gsxstac]

well i think the eagles are just fine, what I'e been hearing is that the main reason eagle got a bad name was because machine shops were over torquing the rod bolts down on them because the specs were less then the factory rod bolts. that made some fial and then people talk all this shit. call eagle and ask the owner, he upgraded rod bolts for no reason other then to calm peoples fears about his product. I've never seen someone who has eagle rods have a motor fail on them because the rods let loose, and I cant see needing anything other then eagles unless your going for over 800hp, butby then its a full race car and you'll want the grodens anyway. I wish john shpeheard had just used eagles to show everyone what they are capable of. ealges are fine and no one is gonna max them out on a street car, i dont care if your making 600whp.

and anyone who says eagles are same as 1g's has their head up their ass. just because someones best friends cousins, sisters boyfriends boss made 550 whp on stock 1g rods doesnt mean they are the same as eagles. none of us are actually inside the oil pan at 550whp seeing the wear and tear on the rods. ITS LIKE SAYING THAT 14B'S ARE THE SAME AS 16G AND 18G'S BECAYSE NOW PEOPLE ARE RUNNNING LOW 12'S AND EVEN 11'S WITH 14B'S. WELL WHATEVER, YOUR STILL BETTER OFF WITH A BIGGER TURBO. same thing with rods, ur still better off with a better rod. I mean i dont work for eagle or anything but I feel bad theat so many people hate on them for no reason. I even sell eagles for 330$ shipped at www.nolimitmotorsport.com and I've sold prob 20 sets and no one has called me back saying they failed. good luck

 

[hostile]

The eagles looks much better than the scat rods. Eagle has been making a good rod for the 4g63 for a long time.

SCAT?

Cmon name one 10 second dsm with scat rods... There have been 8 second dsm's with eagle rods.

 

[MNGSX]

While I cant name a 10 sec DSM with those rods yet they have been making high performance cranks and rods for 40 years.


http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/newsrods03.html

The SBR pic is wrong they have a beam like the eagles...

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

I'm running Eagle rods on my setup, T67.

 

[eclipsed95]

The Big ROD thread!

Sorry, that's just funny

To add something useful, badas93tsi runs a 50 trim with eagle rods.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by PrimedTsi
Im running 20psi on my t3/t4 50 trim but i want to turn the boost up more. I would like to push this 50 trim to the max(28-30psi) and might decide to upgrade to a 56trim t3/t4. MY goals are to run a low 11 and would like to put 400hp to the ground (450ish at the crank?). I think these are resonable goals but i dont want to have to rebuild the motor a 2nd time cause of pushing the limits on the eagles. Opinions?

My best at the track has been a 11.89@121 at 20psi and c16. According to several shops i should be pushing 375 at the crank right now. This is all on the stock 7bolt so you all can see why im trying to go ahead and get this 6bolt built before i do actually break something. I just recieved my water/alcohol injection kit today so that should prolong the 7bolts life a little bit longer.

You are already amking 450 crank hp, no doubts about it.

 

[MustGoFaster020]

My best friend's car made 516WHP with Eagle rods and Wiseco Pistons, with a T04E 60 TRIM.

Another guy I know made 508WHP with a 56 Trim on 1G rods with 2G pistons.

 

[PrimedTsi]

Thanks guys i just ordered a new set of the 3/8" Eagle rods and Ross thermal coated pistons.

So what is the decision on which bearings to use - mitsubishi's or the clevites?