yoshimitsuspeed
15+ Year Contributor
- 674
- 5
- Jul 17, 2004
-
portland,
Oregon
I am writing this because I have found the misinformation of driving to be running rampant and so many people saying silly things and asking silly questions. Now instead of trying to explain in a few words peolpe can just point out this thread. If the write up is good enough maybe we can make it a sticky.
I am no master of driving, I have not done much racing, I haven't drifted much on pavement but I have done my fair share on dirt. If anyone thinks I made a mistake or if you would care to add to this, the more knowlege shared the better.
The basic dynamics of a car work like this.
Step on the gas and the weight of the car is shifted to the rear tires.
Step on the brakes and the weight of the car is shifted to the front tires.
Turn the wheel while in motion and the weight of the car is shifted to the tires on the outside. For example if you turn the wheel to the right your left tires will be supporting the majority of the cars weight ie heavy, the inside tires will be light.
The more weight a tire has on it the better the traction will be, the less weight the less traction.
Now we move into complex dynamics.
If you step on the brakes and turn the wheel right the weight will shift to the left front tire giving this tire the most traction. The right rear will have the least traction.
This is when the rear end of the car is most likley to want to oversteer, or slide twords the outside of the corner.
If you turn the wheel and step on the gas the reverse will happen and the front will want to understeer, basicly go straight despite the wheel being turned.
every car is different so you must apply that to any situation.
So lets start on the road. most people know when you start to slide turn into the slide right. Well thats a good start but which way into the slide. And if you are sliding twards a cliff do you really want to steer into it
At the driving school I worked at we always said look where you want to go and steer in that direction. No matter which way your car is pointed you should still be trying to get where you want to go, and that will almost always be steering into the slide. Of course if your car spins past 90 deg to the road you want to straighten out your wheel. Past 90 degrees this is the fastest way to get your car straightend out.
It is normal when people loose controll of their car they get the strong urge to stop, step on the brakes and what happens.
If the car was oversteering the front tires grab, and it worsens the problem, or said another way you start to spin faster.
If the car is understeering you have already lost traction with your steering and best stopping wheels so it will just make the problem worse, you will continue to slide straight into the snow bank. The best method for the average driver is to let off the gas, step on the clutch, and focus on steering it where you want it to go. This evens out the vehicle dynamics and frees up 100 percent of your traction for steering. If you are a skilled driver and are very familiar with the car you can use some of the techniqes shown below to help bring your car back under controll.
There are a couple different ways to drive close to the threshold. In most road racing you want to slide very little.
The difference between the direction the vehicle is pointing and the direction it is traveling is known as slip angle. In most road racing your tires will slide a little but the slip angle will usually be under 5 or 10 degrees, where as in rally and drifting it can excede 45 degrees.
Since most people seem to ask about drifting I will touch on vehicle dynamics in this situation, it also applys to initiating the proper slip angle on other racing .
In a performance situation there are also differences between front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, and all wheel drive.
In a front wheel drive coming into a corner as you step on the brakes the weight shifts to the front of the car. As you initiate the corner the car will be more likley to oversteer, as the back starts to slide out application of the gas pedal will shift weight to the back tires and bring the slide under controll. Too much gas and the car will start to understeer. A controlled drift is the proper amount of gas brake and steering that can only be attained through experience.
In a rear wheel drive you enter the corner the same getting the weight on the front tires and getting the rear to step out. the difference here is since the drive wheels are already sliding if you give it gas it will only worsen the slide, of course if you give it brakes you will also worsen the slide. I have by far the least experience in a rear wheel drive so all I can say is it is fine controll over all the inputs to avoid excessive oversteer. The basic theory still applies to reduce oversteer you want to get the weight shifted back to the rear tires, you just can't gas it like a FWD.
The AWD has the good characteristics of the two as well as the bad.
I would like to clarify something here. So many people talk about how much AWD improves the handling of their vehicle. Untill you know how to throw your AWD sideways in a controlled drift the only benifit you will get from your AWD is accelerating traction. Other than that stopping and turning characteristics and overall acceleration can even be worse in an AWD due to the added weight, more rotating mass, and more unsprung weight.
When entering the corner you can throw it sideways in the same manner as the other two but now you have all four tires pulling you into the apex of the corner. Simalar input techniques are used to keep the vehicle balanced but once you get it set up the way you want it and start aproaching the apex you can give it more gas and the car will continue to pull you twards the inside of the corner.
There is another technique used in rally I don't remember what it is called but it is used by FWD, RWD, and AWD, drivers.
If you are aproaching a sharp right hand corner you will get the car over to the right side of the road, next you swerve over to the left side of the road. Now you can picture as you do this the suspension is compressed on the right side of the vehicle, now as you apply brakes and start to turn into the corner the energy that has been built up in the right side suspension unloads and pushes the car into a quicker more extreme oversteer than otherwise possible.
This ended up being far longer than I expected but it is still about one percent of the information required to understand the effects of vehicle dynamics.
Which is maybe ten percent of understanding how to drive.
This is not a how to guide to teach you to drift or take a corner at speed.
If you want to learn how to drive ( I know everyone thinks they know how to drive but if you want to learn to drift, or race, or just improve your driving) do it in a safe place. There are auto crosses, Rally crosses, and TSDs that anyone can partisipate in. There are driving schools across the country that teach top level driving techniques. This I highly recomend, If you want to learn right do it from the pros.If you can't do that find someone who knows more than you, but if they are not a professional driver, professional instructor, or well educated by one of the above it is quite likely they will teach you as many bad habits as good.
And Dagnabbit everyone stop talking like you know how to drive. Show me a top three finish in any high level race with corners and I might start to think twice about your abilities.
I am no master of driving, I have not done much racing, I haven't drifted much on pavement but I have done my fair share on dirt. If anyone thinks I made a mistake or if you would care to add to this, the more knowlege shared the better.
The basic dynamics of a car work like this.
Step on the gas and the weight of the car is shifted to the rear tires.
Step on the brakes and the weight of the car is shifted to the front tires.
Turn the wheel while in motion and the weight of the car is shifted to the tires on the outside. For example if you turn the wheel to the right your left tires will be supporting the majority of the cars weight ie heavy, the inside tires will be light.
The more weight a tire has on it the better the traction will be, the less weight the less traction.
Now we move into complex dynamics.
If you step on the brakes and turn the wheel right the weight will shift to the left front tire giving this tire the most traction. The right rear will have the least traction.
This is when the rear end of the car is most likley to want to oversteer, or slide twords the outside of the corner.
If you turn the wheel and step on the gas the reverse will happen and the front will want to understeer, basicly go straight despite the wheel being turned.
every car is different so you must apply that to any situation.
So lets start on the road. most people know when you start to slide turn into the slide right. Well thats a good start but which way into the slide. And if you are sliding twards a cliff do you really want to steer into it
At the driving school I worked at we always said look where you want to go and steer in that direction. No matter which way your car is pointed you should still be trying to get where you want to go, and that will almost always be steering into the slide. Of course if your car spins past 90 deg to the road you want to straighten out your wheel. Past 90 degrees this is the fastest way to get your car straightend out. It is normal when people loose controll of their car they get the strong urge to stop, step on the brakes and what happens.
If the car was oversteering the front tires grab, and it worsens the problem, or said another way you start to spin faster.
If the car is understeering you have already lost traction with your steering and best stopping wheels so it will just make the problem worse, you will continue to slide straight into the snow bank. The best method for the average driver is to let off the gas, step on the clutch, and focus on steering it where you want it to go. This evens out the vehicle dynamics and frees up 100 percent of your traction for steering. If you are a skilled driver and are very familiar with the car you can use some of the techniqes shown below to help bring your car back under controll.
There are a couple different ways to drive close to the threshold. In most road racing you want to slide very little.
The difference between the direction the vehicle is pointing and the direction it is traveling is known as slip angle. In most road racing your tires will slide a little but the slip angle will usually be under 5 or 10 degrees, where as in rally and drifting it can excede 45 degrees.
Since most people seem to ask about drifting I will touch on vehicle dynamics in this situation, it also applys to initiating the proper slip angle on other racing .
In a performance situation there are also differences between front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, and all wheel drive.
In a front wheel drive coming into a corner as you step on the brakes the weight shifts to the front of the car. As you initiate the corner the car will be more likley to oversteer, as the back starts to slide out application of the gas pedal will shift weight to the back tires and bring the slide under controll. Too much gas and the car will start to understeer. A controlled drift is the proper amount of gas brake and steering that can only be attained through experience.
In a rear wheel drive you enter the corner the same getting the weight on the front tires and getting the rear to step out. the difference here is since the drive wheels are already sliding if you give it gas it will only worsen the slide, of course if you give it brakes you will also worsen the slide. I have by far the least experience in a rear wheel drive so all I can say is it is fine controll over all the inputs to avoid excessive oversteer. The basic theory still applies to reduce oversteer you want to get the weight shifted back to the rear tires, you just can't gas it like a FWD.
The AWD has the good characteristics of the two as well as the bad.
I would like to clarify something here. So many people talk about how much AWD improves the handling of their vehicle. Untill you know how to throw your AWD sideways in a controlled drift the only benifit you will get from your AWD is accelerating traction. Other than that stopping and turning characteristics and overall acceleration can even be worse in an AWD due to the added weight, more rotating mass, and more unsprung weight.
When entering the corner you can throw it sideways in the same manner as the other two but now you have all four tires pulling you into the apex of the corner. Simalar input techniques are used to keep the vehicle balanced but once you get it set up the way you want it and start aproaching the apex you can give it more gas and the car will continue to pull you twards the inside of the corner.
There is another technique used in rally I don't remember what it is called but it is used by FWD, RWD, and AWD, drivers.
If you are aproaching a sharp right hand corner you will get the car over to the right side of the road, next you swerve over to the left side of the road. Now you can picture as you do this the suspension is compressed on the right side of the vehicle, now as you apply brakes and start to turn into the corner the energy that has been built up in the right side suspension unloads and pushes the car into a quicker more extreme oversteer than otherwise possible.
This ended up being far longer than I expected but it is still about one percent of the information required to understand the effects of vehicle dynamics.
Which is maybe ten percent of understanding how to drive.
This is not a how to guide to teach you to drift or take a corner at speed.
If you want to learn how to drive ( I know everyone thinks they know how to drive but if you want to learn to drift, or race, or just improve your driving) do it in a safe place. There are auto crosses, Rally crosses, and TSDs that anyone can partisipate in. There are driving schools across the country that teach top level driving techniques. This I highly recomend, If you want to learn right do it from the pros.If you can't do that find someone who knows more than you, but if they are not a professional driver, professional instructor, or well educated by one of the above it is quite likely they will teach you as many bad habits as good.
And Dagnabbit everyone stop talking like you know how to drive. Show me a top three finish in any high level race with corners and I might start to think twice about your abilities.
