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Starting Over

caliboy23

Proven Member
97
0
Nov 8, 2002
Fairfield_Ca.
To make a long story short I just got back my 1990 GSX and all the performance goodies are long gone. So now I'm starting over with a bone stock GSX with Red Top motor. I'm boosting 15 psi and need to change out the O2 sensor and starter.

So while I'm trying to put together the kinda money needed to get this car back into the 11's I'm starting my lists. Everyone who's been around DSM's as long as me knows what I mean by "The Lists." The list of goals for the car, the list of what's needed for the car, and the list of what everything will cost to meet the over all goal.

My overall goal is mid 11's and like everyone else I'm on a budget. So I'm thinking of using a 2nd Gen MAS with a DSM Link. I figure running a hybrid turbo on the stock exhaust manifold with the supporting 3 inch mods would be good, along with a decent front mount. I'm also planning to run a 50 shot wet kit. I know the stock motor will handle this level of power since I did it before without any problems. So until the bottom end taps out, I'll be running stock short block.

The turbo selection is so big It's hard to pick which one I would want over the others. It needs to get me the top end power I need for 11's but of course I don't want to wait till 5000 RPM's before the boost hits.

The turbo I used last time was a EVO 3 16G ported. But I also had the help of a 120 shot of the good stuff boosting 26 PSI on race gas. This time I want more muscle when I use pump gas off the bottle.

Tell me what you guys think, and educate a long time DSM guy on what these new turbo's are doing for you.
 

pneumo

Proven Member
3,763
58
Oct 19, 2002
Bay Area, California
It sounds like you'll like a 50 trim or one of it's variants. PTE makes a bolt on 50trim that's reasonably priced and proven to put a DSM in the mid 11's, even with an internal wastegate. Spool is around 3800rpm.

There's also a ball bearing version of the 50 trim for quicker boost response and slightly better power. It costs a bit more than the plain 50 trim.

Here's a couple more items I'd recommend for your list because they're relatively inexpensive and work is the evo3 O2 sensor housing and FP cams.
 

caliboy23

Proven Member
97
0
Nov 8, 2002
Fairfield_Ca.
It sounds like you'll like a 50 trim or one of it's variants. PTE makes a bolt on 50trim that's reasonably priced and proven to put a DSM in the mid 11's, even with an internal wastegate. Spool is around 3800rpm.

There's also a ball bearing version of the 50 trim for quicker boost response and slightly better power. It costs a bit more than the plain 50 trim.

Here's a couple more items I'd recommend for your list because they're relatively inexpensive and work is the evo3 O2 sensor housing and FP cams.


I was actually thinking of using either a ported 2G housing or a tubular aftermarket one. That way I don't have to worry about the down pipe not fitting properly. Also I was considering the DKS cams from ffwdconnection.com. Are those cams being used by any of you guys?
 

pneumo

Proven Member
3,763
58
Oct 19, 2002
Bay Area, California
T9S1I has a set of DKS cams. He's been running good times on low boost, so the motor is flowing well with those cams.
 

caliboy23

Proven Member
97
0
Nov 8, 2002
Fairfield_Ca.
T9S1I has a set of DKS cams. He's been running good times on low boost, so the motor is flowing well with those cams.


That's good news. I haven't yet decided weather I want the 264 intake cam or the 272. With the size turbo I plan to run the 272 is probably the better way to go.

I've been in contact with Robert at Road Race for the last couple days making sure I get as much good advice as possible before I start maxing out my Platinum. He says that for my budget with my car I should be looking to run a GM MAS or larger. I guess my idea of using the 2G MAS with a 50 trim isn't such a good idea. He says that I should go with a GT35R. I always thought the 2G MAS was good for 450-475 HP. But now I'm hearing that guys don't put down more than 400-410 whp with that MAS. So now I'm rethinking things a little. I guess if the 2G MAS is too restrictive and the 50 trim isn't big enough, I need to raise my budget quite a bit, or up the wet kit to a 75 shot and strip a little more outta the car. I don't need the car for street use so I'm open to the idea of gutting it.

Pneumo, where in the bay area are you? I used to live in Fairfield when I was stationed at Travis AFB, but now I live about 4 hours south near Pismo Beach.
 

pneumo

Proven Member
3,763
58
Oct 19, 2002
Bay Area, California
If you want to go with a GT35 then you may want to reconsider using a bolt on turbo, bolt on O2 housing, and stock exhaust manifold. Sure, it's been done. PTE makes a bolt on 35R. From the threads I've read about it, it doesn't live up to it's potential, and you still have more lag.

Small world. I'm in the south bay, around Mountain View. I used to live in Shell Beach and SLO when I went to Cuesta College. I know a couple other DSM'ers in SLO town, you're not alone! TSTKL or however you abbreviate 'ball boy' and Edwin, forgot his username. Check out the Norcal forum, you'll find them there. Edwin has a GT35R and I have a GT35 on the car now.

My last setup was a PTE 50trim with HKS 264/272 cams, 720 injectors, 2G maf, big fmic, and more. I really enjoyed that setup, it had great power, a little laggy, but still easy to drive on the streets with good response when having fun on twisty roads. I ran consistant mid 11's on that setup with a mix of pump gas and a few gallons of uneaded 100 octane. If you add some nitrous and bigger cams you'll be even faster.

How about an evo/3G maf? It flows better than the 2G maf, and doesn't have the tuning quirks that come with a GM MAFT. Cheaper and easier, what's not to like?
 

caliboy23

Proven Member
97
0
Nov 8, 2002
Fairfield_Ca.
If you want to go with a GT35 then you may want to reconsider using a bolt on turbo, bolt on O2 housing, and stock exhaust manifold. Sure, it's been done. PTE makes a bolt on 35R. From the threads I've read about it, it doesn't live up to it's potential, and you still have more lag.

Small world. I'm in the south bay, around Mountain View. I used to live in Shell Beach and SLO when I went to Cuesta College. I know a couple other DSM'ers in SLO town, you're not alone! TSTKL or however you abbreviate 'ball boy' and Edwin, forgot his username. Check out the Norcal forum, you'll find them there. Edwin has a GT35R and I have a GT35 on the car now.

My last setup was a PTE 50trim with HKS 264/272 cams, 720 injectors, 2G maf, big fmic, and more. I really enjoyed that setup, it had great power, a little laggy, but still easy to drive on the streets with good response when having fun on twisty roads. I ran consistant mid 11's on that setup with a mix of pump gas and a few gallons of uneaded 100 octane. If you add some nitrous and bigger cams you'll be even faster.

How about an evo/3G maf? It flows better than the 2G maf, and doesn't have the tuning quirks that come with a GM MAFT. Cheaper and easier, what's not to like?



Yeah, small world indeed. Was Mike from DSS still around when you were out here?

I didn't know about that 3G MAS being used on a turbo car. It works good though huh? That sounds like a good alternative to running the GM. I really want to stay with the budget I originally set. I've been doing some thinking and I know the 35R would get me there, but I just can't afford to go that route right now. I know Robert over at RRE was only trying to help but looking at the times posted by other members suggests to me that the 35R would be over kill.

So I'm gunna continue my research and hopefully I'll start ordering my parts within the next few days.
 

2gGSX

Proven Member
1,956
28
Feb 15, 2004
St. Louis, Missouri
If you're going with DSMLink you can also use the Fake MAS option along with a MAP sensor to get around metering restrictions. The Evo 8 MAS is theorized to have a max flow of ~30% more than a 2g mas (60-mid 60 lbs/min vs. ~45 lbs/min airflow).

Also, if you're really on a budget, look at the PTE SCM6152E, S, SP, etc. It's the same compressor wheel as a GT35, just non-ball bearing, non-fancy-GT-series-exhaust-wheel-and-housing.
 

caliboy23

Proven Member
97
0
Nov 8, 2002
Fairfield_Ca.
If you're going with DSMLink you can also use the Fake MAS option along with a MAP sensor to get around metering restrictions. The Evo 8 MAS is theorized to have a max flow of ~30% more than a 2g mas (60-mid 60 lbs/min vs. ~45 lbs/min airflow).

Also, if you're really on a budget, look at the PTE SCM6152E, S, SP, etc. It's the same compressor wheel as a GT35, just non-ball bearing, non-fancy-GT-series-exhaust-wheel-and-housing.

I'm searching right now for info on the fake MAS option. Do you happen to have any links that could point me in the right direction. So far I'm not seeing it over at vfaq.com
 

2gGSX

Proven Member
1,956
28
Feb 15, 2004
St. Louis, Missouri
It won't be on vfaq, it's only an option with DSMLink.
 

caliboy23

Proven Member
97
0
Nov 8, 2002
Fairfield_Ca.
Thanks for all the help so far everyone. I've been able to narrow everything down a lot more than before I posted this.

As far as the MAS and ECU stuff, I'm still riding the fence on that stuff. I may just bite the bullet and drive over to Road Race and get set up with an AEM EMS and run a MAP sensor. But I'm leaning just as hard toward the larger MAS with DSM link as an option as well.

As far as the turbo goes, I'll go with the 50 trim unless I stumble upon a bigger faster spooling turbo for the same price. (Fat chance)

I'm curious about these new top mount turbo manifolds. Is anyone familiar with any sort of tests that have been done with those. I see that both Kaizen Speed and Shearer Fabrication both make a beautiful top mount turbo manifold for T3 style turbo's. Do those flow any better than the other tubular manifolds on the market or is it all show? Of course I'm staying with the stock manifold to stay on my budget but wishful thinking never hurt anyone. Plus Christmas isn't far off and I've been a good boy all year. :)
 

thekellbeast

Proven Member
1,518
6
Jun 28, 2003
Portland, Maine
If you're trying to do it on a tight budget, you can cut the ball bearing option from the list. If you're using a stutterbox or boost braking an auto, you're spooled from the line. I don't have any experience with the bullseye turbos, but it looks like most of their bolt-on stuff is cheaper than ones with other housings.

Edit: BTW, what the hell is a Red Top motor? I thought on the 240sx people called their engines stuff like that. Or are you saying you have an optima battery?
 

2gGSX

Proven Member
1,956
28
Feb 15, 2004
St. Louis, Missouri
As far as the turbo goes, I'll go with the 50 trim unless I stumble upon a bigger faster spooling turbo for the same price. (Fat chance)

IMO the turbo between the "50 trim" and a SCM6152 is a 60-1. The spool will be in between the two, and the airflow is rated at 60 lbs/min, which is closer to the 6152 actually. Another option would be to try a Borg-Warner turbo. I'll have one by next weekend hopefully, and I'll be documenting everything from the install to performance in order to provide some more information on these things.

I'm curious about these new top mount turbo manifolds. Is anyone familiar with any sort of tests that have been done with those. I see that both Kaizen Speed and Shearer Fabrication both make a beautiful top mount turbo manifold for T3 style turbo's. Do those flow any better than the other tubular manifolds on the market or is it all show? Of course I'm staying with the stock manifold to stay on my budget but wishful thinking never hurt anyone. Plus Christmas isn't far off and I've been a good boy all year. :)

As far as I can tell, the top mount manifolds are used to provide more clearance for the turbos. According to Shearer's website, the top mount T4 flanged manifold can clear up to a GT45 sized turbo. If you try hanging that on a standard DSM manifold, I'm pretty sure you'd have to beat the water pipe until there was nothing left.
 

pneumo

Proven Member
3,763
58
Oct 19, 2002
Bay Area, California
Top mount manifolds are also good for 4G63 swaps into RWD chassis like a Starion or Conquest.

IIRC a 4G63 with a red valvecover only came from a JDM Galant GVR-4.
 

caliboy23

Proven Member
97
0
Nov 8, 2002
Fairfield_Ca.
So those top mount manifolds aren't proven to flow any better than the other manifolds on the market huh? I bet you'd get some cool points though if you popped your hood and that thing was in there. But I think the guys who go faster without all that fancy stuff deserve more cool points.

Granted, I still think the manifold on that AMS evo and John Shepherd's Talon are the best ones yet.
 
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