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Starting over - Already need help

Posted by tsiawd90, Apr 12, 2019

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  1. tsiawd90

    tsiawd90 Supporting Member

    60
    10
    Joined Nov 16, 2017
    Houston, Texas
    Well it's been about 15 years since I had my last Eagle Talon, I have been searching for about the last 5 years to find another one. I finally pulled the trigger and bought one this week. Already wondering what I have gotten myself into. Also it is way harder to find parts now than it was back then. I'm planning to go with a solid, good looking street build.

    Here she is just picked up after having sat for the past several years. (apprx 7 years)

    PkxDMdt.jpg

    Step 1 will be to get up and running. Got power to it and checked all connections . Turned the key and starter spun, didn't crank then this came up.

    RPdpyzs.jpg


    Seller did not indicate any major engine failure but seeing this has me highly suspicious. It's not the end of the world, I was just hopping to at least her the motor fire up. No telling if I am dealing with a blown motor or detonated head. Is there any easy way to find out before starting in on a timing job?

    I've got parts on order for timing belt replacement and water pump
    https://stmtuned.com/collections/1g...ts/stm-1g-2g-dsm-timing-belt-replacement-kits

    https://stmtuned.com/collections/1g...tsubishi-4g63-1g-dsm-water-pump-o-ring-gasket

    Should I just bite the bullet now and look for new motor now or should I attempt working with what I have?

    I do not do much of my own work, I took the car straight to a shop that I really trust and is easy to work with. The mechanics recommendation was to do the timing job and hope for the best.

    Thanks for any feedback, parts should arrive next week to keep moving.
     
  2. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

    5,126
    992
    Joined Nov 19, 2011
    oklahoma city, Oklahoma
    At least take the covers off before you move it any more. See what is damaged and see where the Marks are. Dont rotate it with that chunk in there.
     

    Street Build 3K  1

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  3. Bo0sTeD 4G63

    Bo0sTeD 4G63 Supporting Member

    307
    55
    Joined Aug 31, 2008
    Miami, Florida
    I would start off by taking off the timing cover, inspect it and install all new timing component parts. After that has been done go from there and see what else you find.
     

    Street Build 977  1

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM
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  4. tsiawd90

    tsiawd90 Supporting Member

    60
    10
    Joined Nov 16, 2017
    Houston, Texas
    I'll try to get over there Monday and take off the covers for further inspection. Not sure when my parts will arrive but I would expect the to arrive Wednesday or Thursday.

    Do you think I should let the guy do the timing job or should I investigate the head and pistons?

    I'm half tempted to pull the motor and get it rebuilt now.

    I really need to do is get a full plan together for this car. My original plan may not be the most viable if there is any serious motor / head damage.

    The unknown is causing me unrest. Even though I know I have a huge project ahead of me, just knowing whether or not I need to include a head or motor in the short term plan is killing the fun.
     
  5. steve

    steve DSM Wiseman

    12,739
    524
    Joined Feb 3, 2002
    St. Charles, Illinois
    What's your longer term plan? If it involves engine internals then go ahead and start tearing everything down. Send the shell for it's body and paint work and build the drivetrain.
     

    3K  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 1G DSM
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    Red_EcliPzE_GsX and ThunderChild like this.
  6. tsiawd90

    tsiawd90 Supporting Member

    60
    10
    Joined Nov 16, 2017
    Houston, Texas
    I am still working up my full long term plan then breaking it down into stages.

    My initial plan was to get it drive-able and start working on the body and interior. Replace all the aged belts, hoses and misc parts that I don't know about yet. Then come back to the performance modifications

    My long term plan is probably to build to about 450HP as a clean street car. I'll probably use it mostly for cruising and back road driving. Long term plan would involve new internals. I have a complete 4G63 from my first Talon in my garage. My long term plan was to have that one completely rebuilt along with the head then do a swap in the winter.

    A couple short term items include:
    The car is missing the upper intercooler piping and the BOV so I was also considering putting the VRSF 1G DSM Front Mount Intercooler Kit FMIC on order this week. Still deciding on the BOV to order.Short term performance mods include installing a 16G turbo I already have with supporting fuel system and exhaust/intake upgrades.

    I know I still need to compile a full list of what I want to do but I think the best thing right now is just to start with either a motor head rebuild or have this timing job done and see if there is any further issues. I feel anxiety to make it run quickly I guess because I just bought it and had it dropped straight to the shop I just want to see it drive before I really start to pour money into it even if that is not logical. IF the issues with the motor are pretty limited to the timing belt I should be able to have the car up and running this week. I can't really inspect any further because at this point I am scared to turn the motor. I may call around tomorrow and see if there is a local place that could do a rebuild. Then I could get some time and cost estimates. I am also looking around for motors for sale to see if I can find anything going that route as well.

    My head is still spinning trying to figure out the best way to progress.
     
  7. tsiawd90

    tsiawd90 Supporting Member

    60
    10
    Joined Nov 16, 2017
    Houston, Texas
    Looks like I got lucky so far. It appears the car ate the balance shaft belt but from a little further initial inspection there does not appear to be any significant damage that we could tell so far. Waiting for all of my timing belt and water pump components to arrive then we can move forward.

    I am also having the body work started at the same time. Ready to make some progress. I am estimating about 3 or 4 weeks and I should be ready for upgrades,

    LBinqXz.jpg
     
  8. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

    1,449
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    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Inspect the balance shaft belt sprocket, tbelt sprocket and the large washer that has the timing mark (don't know what it's actually called, but that can be installed backwards), to make sure they're on properly when you do the tbelt job. I believe there's a washer for the the crank pulley as well. Personally, when something goes wrong, I always try to find the route of the problem. Could just be an old belt in your case.
     

    125  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    123  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 2K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
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  9. ThunderChild

    ThunderChild Supporting VIP

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    712
    Joined Jan 5, 2012
    Rathdrum, Idaho
    I'd also recommend performing a leakdown test before tossing a new belt on and cranking it.
     

    Street Build 210  3

    1990 Plymouth Laser N/T
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM

    291  8

    1987 Toyota Pickup/Hilux
    awd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 841  7

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 1K  1

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 2K  10

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  10. o0GuitarKid0o

    o0GuitarKid0o Proven Member

    755
    105
    Joined Dec 12, 2013
    Winnipeg ,MB, MB, Canada
    I'd like to add that you can remove the valve cover and look for loose or missing rockers might be a good visual indication for bent valves . If none are loose or missing that doesn't mean that your free and clear yet,
    Do a Leak down test at least before the new timing belt is installed.
     

    Street Build 579  7

    1991 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo
    fwd · automatic · 1G DSM
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  11. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

    384
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    Joined Dec 7, 2017
    Wallingford, Connecticut
    leak down test before you spend a dime on the timing job. you need to know if the valves are bent or not and this test will give you the answer
     

    Street Build 1K  8

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  12. tsiawd90

    tsiawd90 Supporting Member

    60
    10
    Joined Nov 16, 2017
    Houston, Texas
    I will get this done tomorrow hopefully it goes well. The mechanic seems to think that it should be in good shape.

    Still waiting on ship confirmation from STM as well. Hopefully I can get these parts in this week.
     
  13. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 7, 2017
    Wallingford, Connecticut
    Well just know that there is no definite way of knowing without testing or pulling the head.

    In case you havent already, do read up on what happens when there are issues with the timing belt on the 4g63.

    Tough to say for sure from that pic but the way that belt is looking on that ex cam gear is scary. Not sure what you got for a back story but this may be why it sat so long. Hopefully not but really fun cars dont sit around un-driven for no reason, ya know?

    Good luck with it
     

    Street Build 1K  8

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  14. tsiawd90

    tsiawd90 Supporting Member

    60
    10
    Joined Nov 16, 2017
    Houston, Texas
    I didn't see the chunk in the timing belt the first time around so I am hoping that it just came up. I do think there are some other issues but can't do anything until this is addressed.

    The guy I bought it from says he was in a wreck in his other DSM and never had time or money to put into this car so it sat. Then the battery and a few other parts were swiped off it like the upper intercooler piping.

    Before I sold mine it sat parked for 2 years because of a turbo oil feed line and a vacuum leak. I fixed those in 30 minutes before I put the car up for sale. I think it is not too uncommon that a fun car can be pushed to the bottom of the priority list. Previous owner seemed confident that there wasn't going to be any major issues getting it running.

    I'm still looking to source a longblock if I can find a reasonable deal I will pull the trigger. I'm also planning to go get my old engine on a stand and start tearing it down.

    The leak down test will be done today so hopefully there is some positive news.
     
  15. o0GuitarKid0o

    o0GuitarKid0o Proven Member

    755
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    Joined Dec 12, 2013
    Winnipeg ,MB, MB, Canada
    FB_IMG_1541514651047.jpg FB_IMG_1541514683193.jpg just pray to the dsm Gods that they dont look like this LOL . Was a blessing in disguise in my case tho LOL going 70 mph when my tensioner failed and this was the end result LOL

    12/16 bent and only had like 7 loose or missing rockers
     

    Street Build 579  7

    1991 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo
    fwd · automatic · 1G DSM
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  16. tsiawd90

    tsiawd90 Supporting Member

    60
    10
    Joined Nov 16, 2017
    Houston, Texas
    Dang, hopefully that's not what I'm dealing with.

    It's going to be late next week before I get parts. I should have ordered them locally.
     
  17. tsiawd90

    tsiawd90 Supporting Member

    60
    10
    Joined Nov 16, 2017
    Houston, Texas
    Well ^#%$ compression = 0. Not good.

    Head rebuild or whole engine rebuild that is the question.

    I think I am going to run into ALOT of issues with this one. What was I thinking?
     
  18. cbyamd

    cbyamd Proven Member

    70
    1
    Joined Jan 6, 2012
    Nitro, West Virginia
    Have you pulled the head yet? I think that will help you decide.
     

    151  5

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 572  10

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  19. curt-s

    curt-s Proven Member

    762
    215
    Joined Dec 21, 2008
    Winterville, MB, Canada
    Few cars, especially these, sit for seven years while being in perfect running condition, especially when you are not given a detailed history prior to purchase.
    After sitting that long I would not even have tried to start it without at least a partial teardown. Removal of the valve cover would have been a priority to check the upper half for rust before sale, and then I would find myself underneath with it in the air.

    You bought a project. Deep down if you were looking for a turn-key road warrior, a 7 year barn find was not the place to start. Many of us have been there.. just takes longer and a bit more cash.
    Besides, it gives you a chance to undo anything a previous owner did that could potentially impact your safety.
     

    Street Build 2K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    pat white likes this.
  20. tsiawd90

    tsiawd90 Supporting Member

    60
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    Joined Nov 16, 2017
    Houston, Texas

    I agree about the fresh start, this could be better in the long run. I did pull the valve cover, check the oil and other routine type inspection prior to purchase. It was parked in the mud so I just inspected the best I could, I didn't get underneath. The price wasn't terrible and I have been searching really hard. I'm not really worried about the surprise I had it built in to the budget from the get go. The guy I bought it from did not let on that there was a big issue he seemed convinced that there were several smaller issues.

    Definitely wasn't expecting turn key but I was hoping the issues would be a little less involved. Long term plans did include building the motor so it just looks like the timing of the build will be altered and I have to lay out a little more early cash.

    Hoping I get a deal worked out on a motor. Really wish I could find more local parts. Houston seems to be a DSM ghost town.
     
  21. curt-s

    curt-s Proven Member

    762
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    Joined Dec 21, 2008
    Winterville, MB, Canada
    DSM restoration, from my experience, is more S&M than anything LOL
    Good luck! We are here to help where we can.
     

    Street Build 2K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  22. tsiawd90

    tsiawd90 Supporting Member

    60
    10
    Joined Nov 16, 2017
    Houston, Texas
    I had forgotten what it feels like to own a DSM, this has reminded me quite quickly. From what I recall this is about how it felt with the last one. But there is always those days when the moons align, the DSM runs perfect and the world is right.
     
  23. tsiawd90

    tsiawd90 Supporting Member

    60
    10
    Joined Nov 16, 2017
    Houston, Texas
    I found a built long block for sale that I think will be a good start. It should be on the way this week. Fingers crossed everything goes well and we can get it installed this week or early next week.
     

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