Starting issues - No / Doesn't / Won't Start - MERGED

[prodsm]

All "my car won't start" discussion threads are merged HERE. We've basically made it easier for those who insist upon not searching by grouping together all threads from those with similar issues so you can just scroll through and see some possible solutions. To search for info within this thread, use the "Search This Thread" feature in the black bar about 3" above what you're reading right now.

Could be anything from a loose battery terminal to internal engine damage, and literally everything in between which may involve the electrical, fuel, and ignition system...possibly even something that you screwed up while working on the car yourself. While it's unlikely we're going to diagnose and solve your problem over the internet, feel free to discuss any possible solutions.



I live in Canada and right now its not very warm out, about -30c
my car does not have a block heater too keep it warm.

I tryed to start my car this morning and it wouldent start, ive had this problem before but this time, the car doesnt crank at all it just makes a sound that sounds like an electric drill.

Whats wrong.

Thanks

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

If compression is bad, will I need to tear down the motor?

Yeah... most likely.

 

[2GJeremy]

Do a compression test but I would also recheck your fuel. Can you hear the starter or battery when attempting to start?

 

[paintballer999]

Forgot to ask, does it matter if I dont have any belts on the car other than the timing belt? I dont have the ac or alternator hooked up

 

[Zack Huffman]

I suppose I did overemphasize the headgasket in my first post, but I don't expect that to be the reason the car won't even crank.

....likely to blow the head gasket, possibly warp the head and can even destroy the pistons.
....
Or you could try jumping it if you actually think the cranking problem is electrical. The fact that it won't even crank ought to tell you something.

I expect that he'll find that the head is warped and gasket blown, but the reason the engine won't crank is likely because the bottom end is locked up. At this point I'm just interested in knowing whether the bearings will weld themselves to the crank before the cast pistons fail.

 

[Kalabalik1]

I've been 100% convinced that the head had to come off but not 100% convinced it's the gasket. Looking forward to hearing what you find after you get the head off.

Ill post all my results until it fires up and ill post noticeable defects that I can see that can maby cause more problems in the future.
To prevent all that Ill ask you, The Masters!!

Have nothing more to Say.
Yall Are THE MASTERS!!!!

Sincerely Alex

Don't forget to connect the coolant hoses when you are putting your new engine in.

I think that I'll never will do that mistake again.
Thanks for the Reminder. =O)

and how many people here said it was the HG in the first page?

Almost Everyone =O)

I suppose I did overemphasize the headgasket in my first post, but I don't expect that to be the reason the car won't even crank.



I expect that he'll find that the head is warped and gasket blown, but the reason the engine won't crank is likely because the bottom end is locked up. At this point I'm just interested in knowing whether the bearings will weld themselves to the crank before the cast pistons fail.

Heads almost always warps of the heat, but still I'm very glad it didn't have any cracks, a new head would be the case, but now I only need the timing kit and the gasket kit and I'm good.
Little like being lucky in the unlucky. =O)

I can only learn from all this.
And I Thank Everybody That Gave Their Time To Help Me.
These people makes life worth living!!!

LOVE YOU ALL!!!!
And Thanks Again, Ill be back with more results.

Sincerely Alex

 

[Domaranel]

I just bought a 98 eclipse RS model. It ran for a couple weeks then wouldn't start one morning. My husband and I figured out it has no spark, it turns over but will not start. We replaced the cam sensor and crank sensor and tested the coil and relays and alternator and everything is as it should be, all the wires plugged in and such. We tested for a short and found nothing. It is not throwing any error codes at all and the test engine light never came on. We are thinking it is the ECU. Is there anything else we should check before we lay down a ton of cash for an ECU? Also my ECU has the last digits 9833AI and I've been looking for a remanufactured one for 3 weeks and everywhere says there is no such part number until today I noticed that the part number on the ECU says Chrysler. One place finally found it under a 98 dodge neon and avenger.... Also can anyone confirm that the last letter on the ecu part number doesn't matter? A few places told me an AH, AI, AJ and AK would work in my car and a few other places told me if I didn't have the AI it might short out wires and ruin the car...Any advice would be much appreciated

Forgot to add that fuel pump is fine and we are pretty sure it's getting fuel

 

[NHerron]

Not 100% on the RS ECU's but a good rule of thumb is if the "check engine" light comes on for 5 seconds when you first turn over the key to 'run', it's not TOTALLY bad. If no light, I would make sure the bulb isn't burnt out in the dash. It's possible.

I neglected my check engine light on my Suburban, and now it's burnt out. I guess if it wants me to pull over and flashes at me, I'm SOL!

 

[Domaranel]

Is this the wrong forum for RS model? Seems like everyone but me has turbo....
And the check engine light comes on for a sec when you put the key in and try to start it but it goes right off, and as I said when car is plugged into diagnostic tester is says there are no codes....

 

[bryanwheat]

Forgot to ask, does it matter if I dont have any belts on the car other than the timing belt? I dont have the ac or alternator hooked up

No, it will start. Yo won't want to run it long because the water pump won't be turning.

 

[Keenan]

Do a compression test but I would also recheck your fuel. Can you hear the starter or battery when attempting to start?

Its a "Crank, no start" kind of problem, so i'm sure he can hear the starter. How do you hear a battery? Not trying to be a smart A$$, I just have never "heard" my battery. If timing is correct and compression is correct, I would check out the cam sensor. Good luck man!

 

[boost97gst]

i have just finished building my car and it seems to not want to start. It is getting fuel, the spark plugs are sparking, but i didnt know if the intake should be getting air while the car is turning over. i took off the intake piping from the throttle body and it does not seem to be pulling air in while the car is turning over.what seems to be a possible issue that could fix my problem

Your timing is off. Its not puling ANY air? I would say theres a major valvetrain issue. Can this even happen if the cams were put on reverse? Like intake and exhaust cams swapped?? Just a random thought/question.

 

[doubleclutch]

I have timed one of the cams 180 degrees out of phase. No bent valves but cranked and sounded fine but no start like you mentioned. Check to make sure the right timing mark is lined up on you cam sprocket. I actually had two marks on mine (the wrong one was larger than the correct one). it was for the back cam or the intake cam.

good luck

 

[ReYnd]

This is the too long;didn't read part of my post. I want to explain everything in excruciating detail, as it's possible I've done something without realizing it by following this course of actions. If you want to try to tackle this with your guns half-loaded, skip to the bottom.

I started the car a couple weeks ago. Sounded horrible. Shut it off, having never moved it an inch. Took the upper timing cover off and started it again. Watched the belt bounce up and down between the cam sprockets. I was concerned about my intake valves at this point, so I decide to see if the engine will turn over easily, or if I can see contact marks through the spark plug hole. I set the parking brake, put it in neutral, and attempted to turn the engine over by the exhaust cam bolt (without removing the spark plugs t'boot ). It rotated a short distance as I put a good bit of effort into it with a relatively short wrench, then I felt/heard something slip down inside the lower cover as the cam was given a bit more slack to roll.

Fast forward to the engine mount and all of the covers having been removed and the parts delivered. If the belt hadn't jumped before, I certainly helped it along. There was resistance as I attempted to line the timing marks up to see how far it was off (turning from the crank this time), so an accurate count was not taken. However, I could get all of the pistons in the middle of their stroke. Doing a leakdown test, every two "clicks" of the cams (being rotated together, working from #1 to 4) yielded good results. The Harbor Freight unit doesn't have very accurate gauges, but I could hear where the air was going, so it was enough for the purpose of discovering bent valves, if they'd existed.

I removed all of the timing components in accordance with the VFAQ and numerous forum posts. Cleaned everything up. Decide to install new cam seals the easy way- take the cams out! After setting them to TDC, that is. The CAS stayed put, to the best of my knowledge. It sat like this, so it had no reason to spin: --o--. Oval the old seals with a deadblow to get them over the cams, slide the new ones on, clean, oil, and reassemble the top end. Even changed the water pump just for peace of mind. Install new balance shaft belt. Install new pulleys. Ensure all of the timing marks are aligned and that the rear balance shaft is in phase. Wrangle the belt over the cams (using Jay Racing's timing tools, by the way) and down the intake side, over the crank and back up the tensioner side. Took several attempts to set tension using the VFAQ method, but finally got it. Verify that all timing marks are still dead on. Turn the engine over six times, still fine.

At this point I'm excited and decide to see if it will run. It takes a few short cranks, but it fires up. Sounds different, but better than the last time. Lacking an alternator, I shut it off and put everything back together. When it's back on the ground, I try to start it again. No dice. I check the plug wires, turns out I didn't go by the numbers the first time I put them on (still going to the proper cylinders, just mis-numbered), but did upon this reinstallation into the head. Sorted that issue out. Battery felt weak by that point, so I charged it. After reaching the proper voltage, the car still sounds the same and won't catch as it's cranking. There is a faint smell of fuel, and the plugs looked good upon their reinstallation.

The question that comes to mind, could I have turned the crank in the wrong direction to reach TDC and placed it on the wrong stroke? And would that even matter if the cams are aligned properly? My only other thoughts are that the CAS somehow rotated 180 degrees (doesn't appear to be spring loaded or anything, so that's doubtful) or that the battery isn't putting out the proper amount of amps. It does seem to be cranking slower than before.

I'm going to look into the battery solution tomorrow/later today by swapping in another after charging it up. Posting now so that anyone who can offer some sort of assistance or advice can do so before it's time to get to work on the thing. Leave some suggestions and I'll get back with the results as soon as possible.

For those few of you, true troopers, who read through all of this... I applaud you.

 

[U8NTRDY]

It will actually run just fine. IT will just be a little rich under a load. I've got a turbine housing with the turbine side welded shut that i've ran on a few cars with blown turbo's. It will bolt to the manifold, o2 hosing and exhaust and eliminates the turbo. If you run a non turbo intake pipe with the turbo maf than it will run fine, no cutting out or anything like that.

Interesting...guess ya learn something new every day.

 

[pauleyman]

Please clear up a few points. Was it running right and then you did a belt and after that it was running wrong? Or it was wrong to begin with so you decided to do a tbelt? If it's the former and it's didn't run right at the first startup afterward then at a bare minimum you did not have the belt on correctly and worst case you've already bent valves. Given the rest of your story at this point you need to make sure the valves are ok and then fix what's broken. Best case, redo the belt, worst case redo the head also. No you could not put the crank on the "wrong" stroke. Thats relative to cams. CAS also can't go 180 out. Only way it can do that is if you removed it. If you show fresh marks on the pistons you bent valves.

 

[paintballer999]

i will look into the cam gears and see if i put them on backwards, but im sure the gears cant be. they are identical to each other. i also checked the cas to make sure the mark was correct and it is on correctly. i will look into the thread for the no start but if anyon has any other opinions as to why it might not be running, please let me know. thanks in advance to all who will help me out.

i just noticed when i turn the key to the on position, just before cranking the car over, there are a few lights that are on, the check engine light comes on for a few seconds, then there is a yellow light of a radiator, a red light with an oil can, the seat belt light and the battery light. could the radiator light or oil light prevent it from turning on?

just found a toggle switch that is hooked up to what i believe is an alarm, it is a small black box that reads, electric shock sensor. also it looks like someone tried re wiring it in or something to that extent. also there is no pulses going to the injectors. could this be because there is a theft prevention system built into my car?

 

[ReYnd]

The timing was initially right, but the hydraulic tensioner was either on its way out (not a complete failure, which is odd), or the belt stretched to the extent that no more slack could be taken out of it. The old belt still looks just fine.

I attempted to roll it over by hand from the exhaust cam, and that's when I believe it first skipped a tooth or two. Before it was just loose enough to be off by a degree or two, by my thinking. If I'd attempted to drive it or put any load on it, then it would have probably skipped and massacred some valves.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

-inhales-

I can assure you that if the timing was dead on when you killed it to turn the cam by hand, you did not deliver enough force using your wrench and physical strength on the cam to bend a valve.

1 : Your CAS is not spring loaded, however, go ahead and set everything in time with the cam dowels up, remove the CAS, and set it correctly to be sure.

2 : As long as your crank was set to it's timing mark and your Cam dowels were at 12:00 when you put the timing belt on it won't matter what 'stroke' you're on because that doesn't change based on the setting of the crank vs the number of rotation. In time at the crank is in time with the #1 and #4 cylinder at the top of their stroke. No worries there.

3 : If your spark plugs were off but it somehow started, this denotes that either A - your engine really wants to run, or B - Your CAS is 180* out. It would run but have some issues.

At this point, now that everything is in time and set, you need to look at the basics. Check your compression for peace of mind, setup your plugs and plug wires correctly 4-3-2-1 (viewing from front of car) and 4-1-2-3 on the coil pack (viewing it looking at the coil plug ports.) Make sure the CAS is correct, and finally set that battery to a proper charge. If the car hasn't ran for a bit or sat with the battery out of it, it's going to need a good charge to get it rolling. Mine is hard to start if I unhook the battery overnight and when I had it down for a week working on it and the battery stored away - although it would turn over and hit it wouldn't start until I jumped it. It fired right up.

Cover these basics and get back with us.

 

[ReYnd]

I knew I couldn't damage the valves by hand, that's why I took that particular approach. Was going to check the timing marks, but didn't get that far since I felt it slip in the process. Took the valve cover off to ensure no rockers were kicked off and that all the springs were still tight. Not being able to see anything out of the ordinary through the spark plug holes, I felt that the valves were still healthy since all of the above checked out. After feeling resistance when turning by the crank, I resigned to doing the timing. Something worth doing right the first time, y'know?

I got it running though. Cleaned and re-gapped the plugs. They had opened up to a little more than .035 so that and the fouling probably played a big role. Still not wholly convinced the CAS isn't off though. How would I have set it if the car weren't able to idle? Mark the body, take it off, spin the blade half a turn and reassemble? And now that it does run, what's the best way to go about getting it dead on? The car has ran relatively well since I've had it, but feels like there could be more in it. What I'm looking for are some symptoms of the CAS being off 180 degrees, or off by ...well, just a few.

Paul and Keiya, thank you very much for your assistance in answering my questions. Hopefully someone will chime in and answer this last round of Q's. But for now, I'm marking this as resolved since it does now run at least as well as it did before this fiasco.

 

[pauleyman]

Has the car ever run right since you've owned it? The way you are writing your posts is suggesting it was right, you did a tbelt job and now it doesn't run right. If the CAS was right then leave it alone. If you aren't sure or were never sure then take it off and check. To reset it you'll need a timing light. That is the only correct way to do it. Marking a spot will get you close.

Was it right or not?
I ask this for the following reasons. If you're trying to diagnose a problem with the engine not running right and you suspected mechanical timing was/is off (and it definately is now) that's one thing. If it was right before you started it will be 100% exactly like it was when you finish. If it isn't then you made a mistaking installing the belt. Please clear up what you're trying to say/do. Thanks.

 

[ReYnd]

Resolved. I did the timing right. The plugs just chose then to foul/gap to the point that ignition was impossible, as stated in my previous post. Took it for a drive, everything's running right as rain again. I was just asking those last questions to learn what all could happen if the CAS was off, to any degree.

 

[stiggity99]

If your getting spark, and everything checks out, i would say, look into a fuel pump.. getting spark, and no gas, means fuel pump , or something with the fuel line, filter. Install a Fuel Pump. (take back/bottom seat out) and rg\ight there it is. I dont know much abour the 420a DSM's, but give it a try.. i beleive a walbro is <$100 or call your local parts place. Hope this helps.

--Steve

 

[ampsyco]

you need to be sure your getting fuel. pop the fuel line off the rail and crank it for a couple seconds. if you dont get a fuel spray you have a problem.

 

[Spiers]

New to DSM's, picked up a '90 GSX a few months ago for $600 with the fuel tank in the trunk. Got a new pump in and Ive been daily driving it for a month or two. Drove well until recently. The past week or two I have had surging at idle and low power/boost. I thought this was caused by a cracked exhaust manifold (just picked up a 2g manifold yesterday).

But today I went out to start the car and it just cranks over, no start. Cranking faster than normal. Tested for spark and fuel and they are both there. Tested compression on all 4 and I'm getting nothing. Took the timing belt cover off and the belt is still intact. While cranking with the plugs out cyl 3 is puffing smoke from the plug hole. Cyl 1 made a LOUD pop and blew a puff of smoke out.

Sooo.. Im guessing its time to pull the head ? Its a stock 90 GSX 5 spd with 152k.

 

[boost97gst]

as long as it didnt jump time then yes, its gotta be the HG. Thats a bummer. Cheap fix though, and relatively easy.