The Top DSM Community on the Web

For 1990-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, and Galant VR-4 Owners. Log in to remove most ads.

  • Send Us Your Photos for the 2024 Calendar - here's how!
Please Support Fuel Injector Clinic
Please Support Morrison Fabrication

Starting issues - No / Doesn't / Won't Start - MERGED

This site may earn a commission from merchant
affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

prodsm

20+ Year Contributor
258
0
Nov 12, 2002
canada, Manitoba_Canada
All "my car won't start" discussion threads are merged HERE. We've basically made it easier for those who insist upon not searching by grouping together all threads from those with similar issues so you can just scroll through and see some possible solutions. To search for info within this thread, use the "Search This Thread" feature in the black bar about 3" above what you're reading right now.

Could be anything from a loose battery terminal to internal engine damage, and literally everything in between which may involve the electrical, fuel, and ignition system...possibly even something that you screwed up while working on the car yourself. While it's unlikely we're going to diagnose and solve your problem over the internet, feel free to discuss any possible solutions.




I live in Canada and right now its not very warm out, about -30c
my car does not have a block heater too keep it warm.

I tryed to start my car this morning and it wouldent start, ive had this problem before but this time, the car doesnt crank at all it just makes a sound that sounds like an electric drill.

Whats wrong.

Thanks
 
Last edited by a moderator:

williamsoa

15+ Year Contributor
44
0
Aug 18, 2004
Augusta, Georgia
Alright gang I am back. Had my box sent in and they found that a jumper was missing and modded the box so it would not short out the drivers. Now that is fixed . . . the car still wont start unless I connect the old ECU. Since the AEM box looks for specific voltages, I am thinking it is the MPI Relay. I know no one has ever heard of one going bad but there is always a first time. Since I got the box back, I even checked the pins providing power to the box to make sure it is getting power(102, 103, 107) and checked the pins to see if it is grounded properly (101, 106). They checked out good. I am running out of possible options because I am stuck like chuck. Any one has any suggestions. As you can see I have checked everything except for signals; I don't have an oscilloscope. I either just about replaced or swap tested every component.

I almost forgot, I have a dude at AEM troubleshooting with me (over the phone) and he is stumped as well. AEM customer service is GRRREAT!, i definitely cannot complain. luv2rallye, how do you check voltage going to the drives? Are you talking about the voltage across pins 55 and 54?
 

DSMoverJDM

10+ Year Contributor
33
0
Aug 8, 2012
miami, Florida
ok guys i am the most pissed off person in my neighborhood at this moment. my eclipse rs has just been problem after problem, after fixing an oil leak my motor mounts go bad. after motor mount swap my tranny decides to start leaking. after all that is fixed now after a day of cleaning my engine bay with some engine degreaser and washing it down, my car started up fine like it normally would.

the next day my car took about 10 minutes to turn on. just cranks and nothing happens. it would turn on and instantly turn right back off unless i had my foot on the pedal to give it some gas. now there is no way to keeping it on. it just cranks and nothing. no start-up. i literally just spent my last $100 to buy a fuel pump my mechanic had told me i needed to replace soon because it is going bad. after replacing it i was getting happy my car might work but WRONG. still no start. i at the point of junking the car of how fed up i am.

someone please help me and give me good news that this wont be an expensive fix or what the problem might actually be. i need my car asap :cry:

thanks in advanced to anyone who helps me
 

iaintmaci

10+ Year Contributor
181
2
Aug 22, 2010
Washington, Pennsylvania
First, you are going to diagnose what is going on. Check for fuel, spark, air. Can you hear the fuel pump running? Check over fuses. More info about the car helps to. Auto, manual? Any other sensors or such changed recently?
 

DSMoverJDM

10+ Year Contributor
33
0
Aug 8, 2012
miami, Florida
fuel filter/pump just changed. spark and air im sorry i have no idea how to check for that but if it helps to say that ive changed spark plugs and done tune up about 3 months ago. along with a new K&N air filter.

car is automatic as well
 

iaintmaci

10+ Year Contributor
181
2
Aug 22, 2010
Washington, Pennsylvania
Have someone turn you key on and hold your ear to the tank to make sure you can hear the pum priming. even if its new, it may be a fuse or something. Pull the spark plugs to see if they are fuel soaked, or burnt. Check over the engine bay to see if anything could have bare wires or have come unplugged. There are alot of electronics that can cause starting problems.
 

josh408

10+ Year Contributor
1,734
120
Jan 29, 2011
Bay Area, California
Checking for spark is pretty much having someone try cranking the car over while you take off 1 spark plug wire and put it next to a bolt on your valve cover and see if spark comes out. Repeat this process with the other 3 wires.
 

DSMoverJDM

10+ Year Contributor
33
0
Aug 8, 2012
miami, Florida
when i turn the key i hear a slight humming noise. before when my car worked fine, when i turn the ignition u hear a "wooo" coming from where my fuel tank is and car would start. it still hums when i turn the key but it does not do that slight "woo" sound not sure if thats any help at all the way i am explaining it.

also is there any posibility of me ####ing up my car because of how i washed the engine bay with a regular hose and engine degreaser ?

i will try checking for spark now and i will also add some extra fuel i have in a portable fuel tank and il report back here to give some more info of what the hell my car is doing.
 

josh408

10+ Year Contributor
1,734
120
Jan 29, 2011
Bay Area, California
Yes!! I hope you didn't wet any electrical stuff. Or even get water in your spark plug holes. That's what happened to my friend. We pulled his spark plug wire. Looked inside and just a puddle of water was in there.
 

iaintmaci

10+ Year Contributor
181
2
Aug 22, 2010
Washington, Pennsylvania
Yes!! I hope you didn't wet any electrical stuff. Or even get water in your spark plug holes. That's what happened to my friend. We pulled his spark plug wire. Looked inside and just a puddle of water was in there.

Like he said. Definitely double check for puddles in the plug wells. Especially if you decide to pull a spark plug out. If you get water down in the cylinder, then you have a chance of hydrolocking the engine.
 

DSMoverJDM

10+ Year Contributor
33
0
Aug 8, 2012
miami, Florida
i was not able to take out my spark plugs but there are no puddles or anything in there. i also checked the fuses and they all came up good.

now its worse, when i crank my car it just makes 1 little click sound and nothing. not even crank sound. someone please help me out. please tell me this is me after engine has been hydrolocked
 

Starvingeclipsegst50

Probationary Member
1
0
Sep 19, 2012
Stockton, California
Are you working on the car by yourself? I see that you are sure the spark plugs are sparking. I think it might help if you had. A friend crank the car while you fiddle under the hood. Have you pulled one of the injectors and turned it over to see if they are functioning properly? Mist , spraying. Keep at it. It sounds like you are quite experienced.
 

jasonbaz85

Probationary Member
9
0
Jun 6, 2009
Rockville, Maryland
You may have a baldspot in your started. Does your car try and turn over again and again and start occasionaly?
 

Metal Health

10+ Year Contributor
59
3
Sep 9, 2012
Detroit, Michigan
If the 420 has a CAS (Cam angle Sensor) sounds like it got wet. It sits at top of engine rides off the cam an has wires going to it. These are very temperamental to water, will cause a no start every time. You wont have fuel or spark.

Put a volt meter on your battery, is it dead? If it doesnt start the first time it wont the second an so on. Never a need to kill the battery. Check for fuel and spark as Iainmaci said. Not sure how too? this site is full of useful information. Autoparts will charge batterys for free.
 

silent1jt

Probationary Member
21
0
Oct 9, 2012
Yuma, Arizona
i dont know if this might help but have you checked your battery/alternator/starter? i burnt my alternator 2 weeks ago because i washed my engine bay with degreeser and water hose. I got lazy and did not cover the alt/batt/starter and paid for it with a brand new alternator. Good luck
 

undefined0000

10+ Year Contributor
1,073
1
Sep 2, 2012
Findlay, Ohio
Dead battery. You killed it with the 500 times you tried to start it. Bad alternator will kill the battery as you drive. While you were driving, the car was able to feed at least 12 volts to components. Now that the car was turned off, it only has battery power to feed off of, if its not getting 12 volts (fuel pump especially), car won't start. I wouldn't suggest trying a jump start, but if you can, charge up the battery and try to start. If it starts, grab the voltage. If it doesn't stay above 13 for a while and eventually dips to 11, bad alt. The car should die between 11 and 10 volts.
 

drmuelr

Probationary Member
14
0
Jul 8, 2008
San Diego, California
Update:

2 major changes since my last update.

Exhaust Leaks: there were 3 exhaust leaks that have all been fixed. One between the exhaust manifold and turbo, one at the upstream downpipe flange, and one big one in the downpipe itself. After fixing the manifold and flange leaks, long term fuel trim has dropped from ~13% to ~4%. I'm not sure where it is after fixing the downpipe leak.

ECT Sensor: I've replaced the ECT sensor twice. The ECM was still intermittently throwing a trouble code for insufficient coolant temp with the original one. I put a new sensor in, and the trouble code never came back, but at the same time, my radiator fan wouldn't turn on. I replaced THAT sensor with a new one, and I'm back to square one: trouble code intermittently pops up, but radiator fan turns on.

No Improvement. For all this, my problem is no better. The engine comes VERY close to starting with the starter. I feel like I could slap the car in the ass and she'd go.

Compression Test. This may or may not be interesting. I've got a loaner compression tester from O'Reilly's, and it's brand new; I'm the first user. (I've been pestering them badly over the past week, since the one they had was taking awhile to come back. They finally just ordered a new one.)

I tested the cylinders in reverse order: 4,3,2,1. I had the throttle wide open, and all spark plugs out when doing the test. Here are the peak pressures.

#4: 60 psi
#3: 0 psi
#2: ~5 psi (too low on gauge for an accurate number)
#1: 0 psi

I'm going to venture to say there is something wrong either with the tester or my method. There's no WAY the numbers on a engine that runs at all are this low across the board; at least not by my expectations. Especially considering when the engine is above 2000 rpm, she runs like a top.

However: I just rebuilt the bottom end. Would it be possible that unseated rings would cause this? I doubt it, but this was my first rebuild.

Other notes...

Just to re-interate: I do have spark and fuel.

Spark is present. Spark plugs were all visually tested by holding against the valve cover.

Fuel is present. For lack of the test equipment, I can't say the actual fuel pressure. The engine runs very well at mid to high RPM, whether under load or not. So it must have pressure across the board. (If she had a strong idle and stumbled under load, I would say otherwise.) With the engine idling, (via manually holding the throttle open) I removed the injector leads one at a time, and each incurred a notable idle roughness, same as removing spark plug wires would.

Idle Air Control Motor. I've had numerous people point to the IAC motor and say, "There's your problem!". However, that still wouldn't explain the VERY poor low idle when I hold the throttle open, and failure to start with my foot on the gas. Something else is clearly amiss; bad IAC motor or not.

Vacuum Lines. I've checked again for vacuum leaks/disconnections, and found none.

EGR Solenoid. After reading through my 2 repair manuals for about the 387th time, it seems that a bad EGR system would yield the same symptoms I'm getting. I've checked the EGR solenoid operation and for internal leakage, and it checks out.

EGR Valve. I'm not sure if the EGR valve is leaking, (or if it would make a difference on this problem), but I did put a vacuum on the control diaphragm. With the car idling (again, only by manual throttle manipulation), it opens at the appropriate vacuum, and causes the engine to stall as it should.

Upstream O2 Sensor. The fuel trim reacted to the exhaust fixes as one would expect it to, so I've omitted testing the O2 sensor.

Live Data. I'll be able to get live data number from the ECM within a couple days. At that point, I should be able to find any sensor issues.

Any more ideas, or am I talking to myself?
 

luv2rallye

DSM Wiseman
8,514
1,285
Jun 7, 2003
Minneapolis, Minnesota
luv2rallye, how do you check voltage going to the drives? Are you talking about the voltage across pins 55 and 54?
Pin 54 to ground and pin 55 to ground are the power transistor control signals (which come from the ECU drivers). They are pulses so a voltmeter will read an average while cranking/running (average probably less than 1 volt.)
Are you getting spark at all plugs (visually verified)?
 

Metal Health

10+ Year Contributor
59
3
Sep 9, 2012
Detroit, Michigan
If your charging light on the dash was coming on, that is your problem. The light would come on here and there, bright an dim for me, turns out the A/C fan wires were rubbing on the power steering pulley, it had wore the coatings away and started shorting my electrical, in return making my charging light glow off an on. I would start with electrical inspection of all wires near hot surfaces or rotating parts. o2 could be getting burn or old broken wire grounding out somewhere. Best to do this inspection before pulling your hair out on other things. hope that helps
 

silverkiller96

Probationary Member
1
0
Oct 14, 2012
Folkston, Georgia
I would get the compression tester once more, and test it on another vehicle to ensure that it is working properly, then test your car again. Reason i am saying, is because although your engine is running good at high RPM's, it could still have low compression at lower RPM's. I've seen many cases where an engine would not start from the starter, but would spin like a top at highers RPM's, this is due to the fact that your engine creates higher cylinder pressures at higher RPM's. At a low RPM's, the pressure in the cylinder can have a slight bleed off from leaking through the gaps in the rings. Did you make sure your gaps in the rings were where they were supposed to be according to factory spec's? Also did you hone the cylinders before installing new rings?
 

91fwdnightmare

10+ Year Contributor
59
1
Dec 26, 2011
orting, Washington
double check timing before you do a compression check did it hing during roll over at all? what style head gasket are you using? did you remove cams at all, reason i ask if you removed the cams is because if you did the lifters will pull oil into them and hang valves open just far enough for no compression until they bleed the oil back off.
 

Mecheng1993

Probationary Member
24
0
Jul 19, 2012
Tallmadge, Ohio
Hey guys. I've got a '97 TSi FWD, almost bone stock (save for a lightweight flywheel, and K&N air filter, if that even counts). She's been sitting for about 10 months, and I just finished doing a complete bottom-end overhaul after a balance shaft belt failure.

Are you sure you have the right flywheel installed? The starter could just be spinning and not contacting anything.
 

GSXSixteenG

15+ Year Contributor
1,559
12
Jun 29, 2007
Buffalo, New_York
Update:


Compression Test. This may or may not be interesting. I've got a loaner compression tester from O'Reilly's, and it's brand new; I'm the first user. (I've been pestering them badly over the past week, since the one they had was taking awhile to come back. They finally just ordered a new one.)

I tested the cylinders in reverse order: 4,3,2,1. I had the throttle wide open, and all spark plugs out when doing the test. Here are the peak pressures.

#4: 60 psi
#3: 0 psi
#2: ~5 psi (too low on gauge for an accurate number)
#1: 0 psi

I'm going to venture to say there is something wrong either with the tester or my method. There's no WAY the numbers on a engine that runs at all are this low across the board; at least not by my expectations. Especially considering when the engine is above 2000 rpm, she runs like a top.

However: I just rebuilt the bottom end. Would it be possible that unseated rings would cause this? I doubt it, but this was my first rebuild.

Other notes...

Just to re-interate: I do have spark and fuel.

Whenever I have done a compression test, I make sure the car is at operating temp then pull only one plug at a time. I'm not sure if the one plug at a time makes a difference, but I thought I would pass along how I have done it without any problems.

I would first say double check these numbers before wasting any more time on other diagnosis'. Because if they are semi-accurate, it is your problem.
 
Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Boosted Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Fuel Injector Clinic Innovation Products Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications MyMitsubishiStore.com RixRacing RockAuto RTM Racing STM Tuned

Latest posts

Build Thread Updates

Vendor Updates

Latest Classifieds

Top