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staggered wheels?

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AK1RA07

15+ Year Contributor
133
0
Feb 5, 2004
Fort Worth, Texas
Anyone have this setup on their AWD's? I know a lot of RWD guys run staggered wheels, I didnt know if it would be beneficial for us AWD-ers as well. I found a set of wheels I like that are 17 x 8 but I was thinking of maybe getting the same ones but 17 x 7 or 17 x 7.5 for the front.. any input? Just looking at my stock wheels, the offset in the front looks much nicer than in the rear, so I thought it might look better if anything :p </rice>
 
The reason why staggered TIRE sizes exists (for a RWD car), is to compensate for the oversteer characteristics of the car. (Or staggered R/L for banked turning.) For a powerful RWD car, it usually has power-on-oversteer, since the power-split is 100% rear, and 0% front. With our AWD DSM’s, unless you have a cusco Center diff, it’s a 50/50 split.
Only stagger tire sizes if you KNOW which end is breaking traction first. You want to stick the end that is not sticking. With different sized tires on the front and rear, the car can be unbalanced during steady state turning.
Since our car’s power is split 50/50, I think it’s best to use the same sized width tires at all four corners. Doing otherwise will unbalance the car—unless you know exactly what you’re doing. (If you’re really interested in this stuff, pick up at least one of Carroll Smith’s books: Tune to Win.)
In general, stickier front tires will cause lift throttle oversteer, and sticker rear tires will cause power on understeer, as well as lift throttle understeer.
With wider tires on either the front or the rear, with the same compound, the traction limit will be reached sooner with the tires, which have the smaller contact patch.
------------
In any case, READ UP on this subject before staggering tires. There are numerous articles online which explain race car dynamics in great detail.
 
hey,
I remember reading about a Japanese EVO V or VI that was an absolute track monster. It wore staggered wheels, but (this is important) it had the same size tire all the way around. This EVO belonged to a really huge tuner and made stupid amounts of power and was a dedicated track car. They ran the different size wheels to change the shape of the sidewall for more predictable handling while racing around the track. I belive they were something like 17x8.5 in front and 17x7.5 in the rear or something similar (there was a one inch difference in width between front and rear). With this difference in wheel width the sidewalls looked different on each set. The side wall on the wider wheel was rounded, and the sidewall on the narrower wheels was square. This made the car more predictable and willing to rotate. I don't see this being practical on anything but a dedicated track car or autocrosser. Thought I'd give you my two cents worth about what I've learned on the subject. Later.
 
Blizz92tsi said:
hey,
I remember reading about a Japanese EVO V or VI that was an absolute track monster. It wore staggered wheels, but (this is important) it had the same size tire all the way around. This EVO belonged to a really huge tuner and made stupid amounts of power and was a dedicated track car. They ran the different size wheels to change the shape of the sidewall for more predictable handling while racing around the track. I belive they were something like 17x8.5 in front and 17x7.5 in the rear or something similar (there was a one inch difference in width between front and rear). With this difference in wheel width the sidewalls looked different on each set. The side wall on the wider wheel was rounded, and the sidewall on the narrower wheels was square. This made the car more predictable and willing to rotate. I don't see this being practical on anything but a dedicated track car or autocrosser. Thought I'd give you my two cents worth about what I've learned on the subject. Later.


There are several details missing from your EVO explaination--some being VERY important, such as tire size, the power split from the center diff, and the height of the front and rear sidewalls. I'm not sure why the guy would want to stretch the 2 front tires. It accelerates tread wear and reduces the tire's natural spring rate. His rear tires would have more sidewall distortion from the contact patch (due to a taller sidewall) as well as more sidewall flex than the front tires.
I'm going to guess this might be the Bozz EVO car featured in the SCC magazine, which actually benefited from predictable understeer to run fast laptimes. The inverse to this though, would be that the car could have OVERSTEERED, because of the increased front tire contact patch, in contrast to the rear.
Of course, all of this is mere speculation and the only way to get any real answers is to get on a track.
 
Since you brought it up it was the Bozz EVO. I didn't remember the exact tire sizes when writing the first post. I could be wrong but I thought that they staggered the wheels that way to help with oversteer. Like I said though I could be mistaken. I'll try to find my SCC mag that has the Bozz EVO for clarification. Later.
 
The Bozz EVO VI ran 17 x 9.5 in front and 17 x 8.5 in rear. The thidea behind it is that the front will have a flat contact patch while the rear has one more rounded, letting the rear out before the front and allowing the car to rotate easier.
 
DSM mechanix said:
The Bozz EVO VI ran 17 x 9.5 in front and 17 x 8.5 in rear. The thidea behind it is that the front will have a flat contact patch while the rear has one more rounded, letting the rear out before the front and allowing the car to rotate easier.

Ok. I suppose so. Now what about staggered tire sizes for our DSM's? Does anyone have any input? I'm interested in applications for our cars and if any of you guys stagger your tires sizes and your reasons why.
 
Anyone doing this? I got some Mustang rims for free, but they need new tires. Will it cause problem to the drivetrain (awd) if I ran 245/45/17 up front and 235/45/17 in the rear? Thanks.
 
As I remember, the DSM AWD variants have a 70/30 split instead of 50/50 as listed above. 50/50 is only if you replace your center differential with a spool, or weld the center diff.

Also, if you have larger/smaller rear wheels you'll toast your viscous coupling, as they're forced to constantly move at different speeds. It'll warm the VC, lock it, and force it to keep moving at different speeds over a long duration. Hell, that's why I replace all four tires at once, just out of paranoia that the wheel wear could trigger it... much less a dramatic outer diameter mismatch.

Short version, RWDs run larger rears for a reason. AWD vehicles don't need them, and it will destroy your transmission if you put form over function.
 
Talesin said:
As I remember, the DSM AWD variants have a 70/30 split instead of 50/50 as listed above.
You "remember" incorrectly. All DSMs (and recent Evos) have a 50/50 spider-type center diff.

- Jtoby
 
If you can match outer diameters, some japanese evo tuners are runing staggered tire and wheel widths. Say a 255 up front and a 235 in the rear to help against the cars naturally nose heavy understeer in low speed corners. Tire diameter must match though or you'll screw the pooch with your center diff.
 
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