2G [SOLVED] Electrical issues... Car won't start, no power to acc

[MoarAWD]

Ok, so I have searched the forums for hours, and I have learned quite a bit about this issue, but I haven't been able to solve the problem. I removed the dash a few days ago to repair some bad wiring from the previous owner, and after finishing the repairs, the car will no longer start. Turning the key to start results in one click (which I think is the starter relay). There is also no power to anything in the car that is not plugged into the ignition; the turbo timer works, but the gauge cluster, aftermarket A-pillar gauges, sunroof, windows, locks, etc have no power at all.

Here's everything I've done to diagnose the problem:
-All plugs and wires reconnected and verified
-Battery voltage verified / used battery to start another car
-Battery cables tight, clean, and properly connected
-Wires to starter are properly connected
-All fuses in cabin and engine compartment verified good
-CEL doesn't light up when ignition is taken to "ON", so ECU sensor ground was verified
-Completely uninstalled aftermarket gauges to ensure no conflicts

Is there anything that I'm missing that would cause this? My only other theory is, because of the horrid state of the wiring from the previous owner, that I'm going to have to completely pull the wiring and trace everything to make sure there isn't a hidden gem of wire horror hidden somewhere.

 

[Dsmkauai]

Sounds like you forgot to plug something back in. Retrace your work bro only way to figure out

 

[eSpyder407]

Since the turbo timer is the only thing that works....Check the turbo timer wiring harness connection, could be loose or have several loose wires? Or remove the tt wiring harness and reconnect that bundle of wires to the stock connection point

 

[MoarAWD]

Ok, a little update:

All of the interior electrical now works. The aftermarket gauges still don't work, but I think it's because they're connected to a mini add-a-fuse instead of a full size add-a-fuse, since I can measure 12V at the fuse locations. (Just in case I'm crazy, I'll say that I have them wired into the driver's side fuse panel, using the spare acc fuse location for acc power, and the un-interrupted supply at the turn signal fuse, and grounded to the bracket just below the fuse panel.)

Now, whenever I turn the ignition to the ON position, the turbo timer comes on, the CEL comes on as it should, and all acc components work. I also hear a whirring noise from under the hood somewhere. However, when I turn the key to START, I hear a single click and nothing else happens. I continue to check battery voltage to ensure it's not just a dead battery, but the lowest I've seen is 12.1V.

I reached a wrench down to the starter to ensure the connection was still tight, but in my stupidity, I had not disconnected the battery. When I got close, the wrench sparked off the starter connection, and the starter turned over once. I'm not sure what this means, as my only option until this point was that there was something wrong with the starter. I've checked with a multimeter and seem to have good connections from the battery.

Also, as far as reconnecting everything, the only plugs I haven't reconnected are the following two:

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I think the big one is ABS-related (no ABS anymore) and the 2-wire one is the blower motor? I'm not 100% on those, but that's what I get from reading the FSM. If anyone knows for sure, I would definitely appreciate the help.

 

[farmer890]

I had this exact issue 2 weeks ago. I relocated the battery to the rear, and when I reconnected the battery none of my gauges or dash lights would turn on. All connections and fuses were good. I would turn the key forward and........nothing. Eventually, out of nowhere, everything lit up and worked like a charm every time I turned the key.

My guess at the reason behind this would be that if the battery was disconnected for long enough, then it would need to be connected for a minimum amount of time before everything would work again. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but in my recent experience that was the case for me.

As for your aftermarket gauges not working, the only difference in wiring that I did from what you did, is that I have power coming straight from the battery to a switch, then to each gauge. My accessory power is wired into the blower motor fuse in the driverside fuse box. Ground to frame. So maybe verify your 12V+ source connection, ground and signal fuse, or find another 12V+ source.

Now, for the sparking wrench, what you did there was "jumping the starter", which means you gave the starter power from the battery by using the wrench to close the circuit. No harm done. (I've actually used this method as a replacement for turning the key on a work truck that was a total POS)

On to the no start issue. I have to ask, when you double checked your starter connections, did you remember to plug in the black wire onto the tab on the starter? When turning the key to "START", a single "click" in my experience dictates a loose connection or a dead battery (which doesn't appear to be your issue)

Those harnesses I don't recognize, and I'm away at work right now otherwise I'd go look under my dash quick for you. So I don't know what to tell ya regarding those at the moment.

Hope this helps kinda! Good luck!

 

[MoarAWD]

I had this exact issue 2 weeks ago. I relocated the battery to the rear, and when I reconnected the battery none of my gauges or dash lights would turn on. All connections and fuses were good. I would turn the key forward and........nothing. Eventually, out of nowhere, everything lit up and worked like a charm every time I turned the key.

My guess at the reason behind this would be that if the battery was disconnected for long enough, then it would need to be connected for a minimum amount of time before everything would work again. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but in my recent experience that was the case for me.

As for your aftermarket gauges not working, the only difference in wiring that I did from what you did, is that I have power coming straight from the battery to a switch, then to each gauge. My accessory power is wired into the blower motor fuse in the driverside fuse box. Ground to frame. So maybe verify your 12V+ source connection, ground and signal fuse, or find another 12V+ source.

Now, for the sparking wrench, what you did there was "jumping the starter", which means you gave the starter power from the battery by using the wrench to close the circuit. No harm done. (I've actually used this method as a replacement for turning the key on a work truck that was a total POS)

On to the no start issue. I have to ask, when you double checked your starter connections, did you remember to plug in the black wire onto the tab on the starter? When turning the key to "START", a single "click" in my experience dictates a loose connection or a dead battery (which doesn't appear to be your issue)

Those harnesses I don't recognize, and I'm away at work right now otherwise I'd go look under my dash quick for you. So I don't know what to tell ya regarding those at the moment.

Hope this helps kinda! Good luck!

About the tab on the starter:
I have a blue wire connected to the tab with a spade connector. It seemed kind of loose, so I tightened the spade connector and reinstalled it, but that did not solve the problem. Is that the signal wire that causes the starter switch to close and gives power to the starter?

Also, tomorrow morning I'm going to Advance to pick up some full-sized add-a-circuits for powering my gauges. Hopefully this will solve the issue.

One other thought, can anyone check their fuel pressure gage to see if turning the key to ON causes their fuel pump to prime? I seem to remember this being the case on previous cars, but I'd like to make sure if that is correct for the DSM. Normally, I would expect to hear the fuel pump prime when the key is turned to ON.

 

[farmer890]

About the tab on the starter:
I have a blue wire connected to the tab with a spade connector. It seemed kind of loose, so I tightened the spade connector and reinstalled it, but that did not solve the problem. Is that the signal wire that causes the starter switch to close and gives power to the starter?

You got it.

One other thought, can anyone check their fuel pressure gage to see if turning the key to ON causes their fuel pump to prime? I seem to remember this being the case on previous cars, but I'd like to make sure if that is correct for the DSM. Normally, I would expect to hear the fuel pump prime when the key is turned to ON.

In most cars, this is the case. However this is not the case for the 2G DSM (turbo models). There is a black wire harness near the firewall in the middle somewhere, Mitsubishi actually put it there purely for running the fuel pump. I used this handy wire to drain old fuel out of my gas tank by putting 12V+ to it and watched the gas pour out of my fuel line into a jerry can. I'll find a link/pic of what I mean.

Edit: for some reason I can't find a damn picture of the thing. I'll be at my car in a couple of days, so I can take a pic then.

 

[MoarAWD]

I'm thinking that my problem may be the starter signal wire then. I feel like the starter is fine if I can jump it like that, and the only reason I'm not getting a start is because that wire isn't getting a signal. I'll have to check it with a multimeter to see what happens when I turn the key to start. I'm guessing that I should see a 12V signal on that wire when the ignition is turned to START?

 

[farmer890]

I think that's your problem as well. In my experience, what my seem like a solid connection, isn't always good enough. Picky f**kin wires!

I'm not sure what the multimeter "should" read when the ignition is turned to "START", but 12V sounds right to me.

 

[MoarAWD]

Ok, so update:

I traced 12V from the battery to the MPI relay. I get 12V on the MPI pin 6 (black/white) and when I turn the key to START, both the MPI and Ignition relays operate, so I can verify they work.

Next, I moved to the ECU, and discovered that pin 71 isn't sending the signal it's supposed to. According to other threads, I should see at least 8V with the key in START, and I'm seeing 70-80 mV.

So my question, are there any pins on the ECU that get run to ground? I'm hesitant to call the ECU bad since it cranked just fine before replacing the gauges, and I don't think the short caused by the previous owner did any damage to the ECU. I'm thinking he instead had the gauges grounded to one or more ECU grounds.

 

[MoarAWD]

SOLVED!!! The starter relay was bad >.> I tested it and it passed, but on a whim I decided to jumper across it, and the car fired right up.

edit: How do I update the thread title to include that it was solved?

 

[Nosblewup]

I've had a recurring problem in my tsi fwd.. the other day I started to tune my injectors in and I lost all power mid drive. It was from my starter wire being loose, I have fixed that. I've tested the relays, gotten new fuses, (ignition fuse popped) and also I've multimeted all relays. All seem to get power. I've checked the ignition colum wires themselves, four ways work and nothing else.

 

[MoarAWD]

When I broke the car out now that it's warm again, I started having the same issue as above. I replaced the starter relay before storing it for winter, and assumed that when I cranked it this year, I wouldn't have any problems. Well, it didn't crank. Just a single click when the key was turned. Jumping the relay once again fixed the issue. I now have two relays that check out just fine on a multimeter, but won't allow the car to start. I'm fairly certain that there is something I don't quite understand that happens before that relay.

TL;DR
Jumper your starter relay even if it checks out. It's been my issue twice.

 

[Nosblewup]

The only thing is with my current situation is that there is no accessory lights on dash at all. No power in cabin except for 4-ways. Working on the car today will post back what I found.
Also will try the arc method for starter

 

[Vegas Smith]

When I broke the car out now that it's warm again, I started having the same issue as above. I replaced the starter relay before storing it for winter, and assumed that when I cranked it this year, I wouldn't have any problems. Well, it didn't crank. Just a single click when the key was turned. Jumping the relay once again fixed the issue. I now have two relays that check out just fine on a multimeter, but won't allow the car to start. I'm fairly certain that there is something I don't quite understand that happens before that relay.

TL;DR
Jumper your starter relay even if it checks out. It's been my issue twice.

Hmm, is your clutch switch connected?

 

[Nosblewup]

It turns out the solution to my issue was there was a blue/clear connector unplugged from the ignition cover. Damn ghosts

 

[Vegas Smith]

Yeah, connectors like to be connected

 

[MoarAWD]

Hmm, is your clutch switch connected?

The previous owner bypassed the clutch switch, but with everything else I've seen in this car, that might not have been done completely correct. Is that the circuit that closes the fuel pump relay? I've tried starting the car with the clutch in and out while the relay was plugged in, and nothing.

 

[MoarAWD]

It turns out the solution to my issue was there was a blue/clear connector unplugged from the ignition cover. Damn ghosts

Gotta love the random disconnected plugs.

 

[Nosblewup]

The previous owner bypassed the clutch switch, but with everything else I've seen in this car, that might not have been done completely correct. Is that the circuit that closes the fuel pump relay? I've tried starting the car with the clutch in and out while the relay was plugged in, and nothing.

If you hear clicking it means the starter relay is working. If not then something is stopping the signal. Whether it be a fuse, short, or dead battery. My car wasn't doing anything. The starter wire came loose causing it to pop the ignition fuse. And then trace other issues. It's like a Easter egg hunt!!!

 

[Vegas Smith]

The previous owner bypassed the clutch switch, but with everything else I've seen in this car, that might not have been done completely correct. Is that the circuit that closes the fuel pump relay? I've tried starting the car with the clutch in and out while the relay was plugged in, and nothing.

I believe it connects the starter circuit so you can't start the car in drive and plow over the people in front of you.