2G snapped the ole' timing belt : P

[ErikTande]

well shit

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are all 2g heads the same? i definitely bent valves. gonna try source a local replacement head.

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don't push your timing belt kids : P

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Yes, I'm aware of that, and will do so (although my stock setup doesn't need some of these more rugged parts). I'm just asking if the parts that tend to actually fail are other than the TB itself.

Just depends on how good you think those old components are and compare that to having to tear it all down again for something that looked good but was on its way out.
When I do a timing job, I do the whole thing no matter what. Piece of mind. That includes a water pump and balance belt if it has one still.
@ErikTande , were you able to find out where the line in the timing belt came from? I would check on that, it looks like it rubbed for a while.

 

[GregoryRyan]

To answer your original question regarding all 2Gs heads being the same no they are not. Earlier years have the CAS on the timing side where later years have the CAS on the passenger side. Yours looks to have the CAS on the passenger side so if you decided to just out and replace the head you'd need to source a likewise head or be prepared to do some wiring.

Beautiful car BTW...we are cousins.

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[XC92]

Just depends on how good you think those old components are and compare that to having to tear it all down again for something that looked good but was on its way out.
When I do a timing job, I do the whole thing no matter what. Piece of mind. That includes a water pump and balance belt if it has one still.
@ErikTande , were you able to find out where the line in the timing belt came from? I would check on that, it looks like it rubbed for a while.

I'm definitely going to replace the TB soon and when I do I'll probably replace everything, idlers, tensioners, water pump, balance belt, etc. The only questions are with which parts and how soon. I can't get to it now anyway since I'm rebuilding the trans and don't want to complicate things before that's done.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Wait, so when doing a TB change for preventive maintenance every 60k miles or X years, it's the other parts you really need to replace and less so the actual belt? I think I've read that the balance belt tends to break, skip or come off and take everything else with it. Is this so?

Not every time, but in many cases, it’s another part that fails. Most often it’s the balance shafts belt that breaks, then gets entangled with the timing belt, causing it to slip. Or the hydraulic tensioner loses its ability to keep proper tension on the belt, or the bearings in one of the two pulleys go bad and cause excessive friction on the belt, which works cause actual timing belt failure

 

[pauleyman]

It'll need a new head for sure. I'm gonna do it myself. New head, new head gasket, arp head studs, oem timing belt kit, water pump, etc.

I'll probably be getting a head from Rix Racing, but I found I can also get one from Autozone for like $600 bucks.

https://www.autozone.com/external-engine/engine-cylinder-head/p/nutech-engine-cylinder-head-2228j/992488_0_0

If you're considering the likes of autozone call up cylinderheads international. 350$ . Only saw early Gen 1 heads on their site though. I'm installing one of their units on a 2.4 4g69 right now. 2nd one actually. Did one 5 years ago.

 

[XC92]

So, basically, if you change one, change all, sleep well. Which is what I was going to do. But it doesn't hurt to know WHY.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

If you're considering the likes of autozone call up cylinderheads international. 350$ . Only saw early Gen 1 heads on their site though. I'm installing one of their units on a 2.4 4g69 right now. 2nd one actually. Did one 5 years ago.

Does that $350 include new valve stem seals, guides, valve train and rockers?

 

[pauleyman]

Does that $350 include new valve stem seals, guides, valve train and rockers?

New? I doubt it. They do advertise as replace what's needed. New stem seals yes.
Check the site out.

 

[ErikTande]

If you're considering the likes of autozone call up cylinderheads international. 350$ . Only saw early Gen 1 heads on their site though. I'm installing one of their units on a 2.4 4g69 right now. 2nd one actually. Did one 5 years ago.

https://www.headsonly.com/
That the right one?

 

[pauleyman]

https://www.headsonly.com/
That the right one?

Yes. I placed my order last week. Coincidently working on it today

 

[ErikTande]

Yes. I placed my order last week. Coincidently working on it today

Thanks! I'll give 'em a call. My car is a 97, just to be sure, I need a 97+ head if I don't want to change any wiring, right?

were you able to find out where the line in the timing belt came from? I would check on that, it looks like it rubbed for a while.

Are you talking about the thin strip that's left? You think it was rubbing on something and that's why it split? Or are you looking at something else?

I haven't even popped the hood again yet, I won't be able to tear into this for at least a week, got other projects taking up the garage at the moment.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Yep, I was looking at that strip. It shouldn't be there and could be a contributing cause. If it were a 1g, I would have said you have the wrong oil pan bolt in (too long) but this is a 2g. I would look to see if anything has touched it because it will touch again. Just pointing it out is all

 

[ErikTande]

Yep, I was looking at that strip. It shouldn't be there and could be a contributing cause. If it were a 1g, I would have said you have the wrong oil pan bolt in (too long) but this is a 2g. I would look to see if anything has touched it because it will touch again. Just pointing it out is all

Which part shouldn't be there, 1 2 or 3? or something esle? I thought those were all just parts of a mangled timing belt.

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[NOSLO2PT0]

Thanks! I'll give 'em a call. My car is a 97, just to be sure, I need a 97+ head if I don't want to change any wiring, right?

Be careful when ordering. They are lumping the 7 bolt 1g head in with the 2g cylinder heads. You won’t be happy if you get a 1g 7bolt head

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Which part shouldn't be there, 1 2 or 3? or something esle? I thought those were all just parts of a mangled timing belt.

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Pretty sure Marty is talking about #1. I’m curious where the other half of the belt is, as the belt in the pic is about half as wide as it should be

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Yes I was referring to #1 Erik, just like Mike.

 

[ErikTande]

Yes I was referring to #1 Erik, just like Mike.

That's not part of what's on the inside of the timing belt? I assumed it was akin to the steel belts from steel belted radial tires.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I'm sure they are reinforced with something, I'm not sure if it's a steel belt though. I am wondering what made that stripe on the Belt to start with is all.

 

[19Eclipse90]

Thanks! I'll give 'em a call. My car is a 97, just to be sure, I need a 97+ head if I don't want to change any wiring, right?

Just to be clear - the head itself isn't going to be a cause for you to need to rewire anything. You'll reuse your cams and cam sensor - swap those to the new head and you'll be fine. In this case, any 2G head will do the job.

Easy way to make sure it's a 2G head? Check the intake ports or check this: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/is-this-a-2nd-gen-or-1st-gen-head.431917/#post-152931766

 

[GregoryRyan]

I'm asking cause I am not aware but do the 2G heads that have the CAS on the passenger side have the mounting provisions for CAS on the timing side and vice versa? I just assumed that if the CAS was different then the OEM from your particular vehicle (timing side vs. passenger side) that you would either have to extend or shorten the wiring?

Okay did a bit of digging and I did find a bit of info on the differences in CAS between the 95-96 head and the 97+ head. I am sure there is more but this should give suffice info if needed. Ill link the threads incase it may come in handy...

CAS diff thread #1

CAS diff thread #2

 

[AWD-Tony]

Did a timing belt job a few months back and saw this when I took the cover off.

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@ErikTande Did you remove the oil pan by any chance? There are two shorter bolts for the oil pan that are right under the timing belt. If the longer bolts were used, it’ll cut into the belt.

 

[ErikTande]

Did a timing belt job a few months back and saw this when I took the cover off.

@ErikTande Did you remove the oil pan by any chance? There are two shorter bolts for the oil pan that are right under the timing belt. If the longer bolts were used, it’ll cut into the belt.

When I did the timing belt on my 1G Eclipse I found the same thing, the balance shaft belt had broke and been wadded up for a long time, but never hurt anything.

I've never had the oil pan off my Talon. I'll definitely check that out when I tear into though.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I "believe" the 2g, 7 bolt motors that are humped on the oil pan under the timing components takes the "long bolt in the wrong hole" scenario out of his situation but that is exactly what I was commenting about and the reason why.

 

[AWD-Tony]

I "believe" the 2g, 7 bolt motors that are humped on the oil pan under the timing components takes the "long bolt in the wrong hole" scenario out of his situation but that is exactly what I was commenting about and the reason why.

extremepsi shows the 2g has 2 short bolts also

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EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts

www.extremepsi.com

 

[19Eclipse90]

I'm asking cause I am not aware but do the 2G heads that have the CAS on the passenger side have the mounting provisions for CAS on the timing side and vice versa? I just assumed that if the CAS was different then the OEM from your particular vehicle (timing side vs. passenger side) that you would either have to extend or shorten the wiring?

Okay did a bit of digging and I did find a bit of info on the differences in CAS between the 95-96 head and the 97+ head. I am sure there is more but this should give suffice info if needed. Ill link the threads incase it may come in handy...

CAS diff thread #1

CAS diff thread #2

Any 2G head will have the physical provisions to accept a 2Gb (97+) cam sensor. This is why I said swap the cam sensor and camshaft from the 97+ engine into the new head and you're on your way. This is purely mechanical, requiring nothing other than swapping parts.

The other scenario, all 2G heads having the mounting holes for the CAS on the belt side like the 2Ga, I am uncertain.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

extremepsi shows the 2g has 2 short bolts also

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EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts

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Then that is what I suspect on the timing belt as Tony has pointed out also!
Thank you T-man!