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1G Single Click No Start (Intermittent) (90 AWD TSI)

Posted by triggerx, Sep 21, 2020

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  1. triggerx

    triggerx Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 15, 2009
    Gilbert, Arizona
    Hello Everyone,

    I would appreciate any help or suggestions from you all.


    I have a 90 Eagle Talon TSI Awd (Manual).

    The car has sat for a few months due to not being able to start. I initially thought it was a Starter issue because I was getting a single click and the car would not even crank.

    I recently changed the starter and it started right up. It started fine for like 3-4 attempts, however now it just gives me a single click when I attempt to turn it on.
    The problem is intermittent it seems. Usually I can get it started within like 15-20 attempts of turning the key.

    I plan on keeping this car for years, so I don't mind replacing parts on it if I feel that it will become a weak part of the system down the road. From the research I've done, if my wires are good, it sounds like some other culprits can be the ignition switch or an Engine coolant Temp sensor.

    Kind of stumped, but here are somethings I've done recently:
    • Battery has been changed and is brand new
    • Starter replaced. Tested old starter as well, and that appears to be good based off of what autozone has told me.
    • Terminals are all new, cleaned some of the contacts as well.
    • Alternator is fairly new, and seems to be charging the battery fine at least.
    • Tried bypassing the starter relay in the car by jumping pins 3 and 1 on the female end with no results. So im assuming the starter relay isn't the culprit.
    • Replaced 20 Amp ignition fuse on positive terminal.
    • No CEL

    Thanks,
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
  2. ErikTande

    ErikTande Supporting Member

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    If you jump it, does it start? Just curious.
     

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    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

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    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
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  3. Vegas Smith

    Vegas Smith Proven Member

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    If you are hearing a click then I assume everything is working all the way to the starter solenoid. Check to make sure you're getting voltage at the starter solenoid spade.
     

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    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  4. triggerx

    triggerx Proven Member

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    Gilbert, Arizona
    I tried jumping it with a known good battery, and didn't seem to make a difference.

    I'll recheck that spade with a multimeter then. I may have to remove that starter again because I don't believe you can access it while its installed. Would that really cause an intermittent issue though?
     
  5. Vegas Smith

    Vegas Smith Proven Member

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    If you have frayed or damaged wires then yes. You shouldn't need the starter out to do this in my experience. I've also had this exact problem and I fixed it by buying a quality Bosch unit. The autozone unit was crap from day one and it took me years to figure that out. I always thought it was an ignition switch issue.
     

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    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  6. Jk's97DSM

    Jk's97DSM Proven Member

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    Norfolk, Virginia
    Look for loose connections and battery terminals.
     

    208  1

    1990 Mitsubishi Mirage EXE (SLO CSM)
    manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 534  1

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM
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  7. Dericsh

    Dericsh Supporting Member

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    Pearl River, Louisiana
    second this, definitely don’t rule out a faulty starter just because it’s “new”
     

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  8. lglracer

    lglracer Supporting VIP

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    Make sure you have good grounds.
     

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  9. steve

    steve DSM Wiseman

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    The only time my 1G clicks during attempts to start it are when the clutch isn't pushed in or the battery is low.
    The Starter Relay only activates to disable the starter, normally it just sits there and passes the ignition switch start voltage to the Starter Solenoid as long as the clutch is pushed in. The CSS when the clutch is out grounds the Starter Relay coil and that activates the relay breaking the connection between the ignition switch and the starter.

    This is why disconnecting the CSS is one of the diagnostic steps, it can't force the Starter Relay to break the connection if it's not grounding the relay coil.

    So go check to see if you have the right voltages to the starter and then you'll have somewhere to diagnose from.

    1G Starter without Theft.PNG

    1G Starter with Theft.PNG

    1Gstarter.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020

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  10. Brembo

    Brembo Proven Member

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    I got stuck once when the plastic/rubber stopper on the clutch pedal broke and the clutch switch would not activate. So easy thing to check to see if the switch even hits the pedal
     

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    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  11. triggerx

    triggerx Proven Member

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    I completely agree, unfortunately I’ve dealt with a few parts like this from Autozone and ended up going the oem route.

    Really good information. I appreciate it. What’s weird is that I actually checked to see if I could unplug the CSS, LOL but I gave up cuz I was afraid I was going to break it.
    On that note, I’ve been doubting if what I was trying to disconnect was even the css plug because my car actually starts without needing to press the clutch in. I will double check this next weekend for sure since I’m away from the car until next weekend, but I will check this for sure.

    Love the choice of an Audi TT btw , always been a big fan of those cars.
    :thumb::thumb:
    —-
    Overall I’ll have to be more methodical about this. I will check voltages next weekend when I’m around my car again.
    I will pull the starter and clean or replace every connection down there. Then I’ll try using a multimeter to see if things are working properly.

    I’ll be sure to keep this thread updated with whatever the solution ends up being.

    Thanks
     
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  12. triggerx

    triggerx Proven Member

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    So I’m back out here working on the car.

    What’s weird about my car is that it has always tried to start before without the css connected. So I’m not sure what’s going on with that. But having it connected or not connected doesn’t make any difference.

    Signal wire at the starter sees 12v sometimes, and other times about 11.5v when key is turned in an attempt to start.

    At this point I basically wired the signal wire directly to the battery to crank the car by making sure the solenoid was seeing 12v for sure. That worked and caused the car to crank.
    I could probably bypass everything with a push button start, but that’s just a band aid.

    I changed out the ignition switch and bypassed the starter relay without different results as well.

    If I’m understanding the circuit correctly though, me bypassing the starter relay(jumping pins 3 and 4) should also bypass the anti theft and Clutch safety switch since their only job is to basically flip the switch on the starter relay itself.

    Even With a different ignition switch in the car it still won’t crank.
    I’m starting to think that my wires to the signal may actually be bad.

    EDIT: Does anyone know what the amperage draw is for the starter solenoid?

    I'm going to run a wire like this:

    Starter Solenoid (S Pin) -----> Fuse----->Momentary Push Button Switch------> (Positive+ Battery)
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
  13. DSSA

    DSSA Supporting Vendor

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    It sounds like you have a bad ground. Check the main grounds to make sure that they're tight, not highly corroded, and that the wires going into the terminal rings aren't frayed and just hanging on by a couple of remaining strands.
     
  14. Jk's97DSM

    Jk's97DSM Proven Member

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    Did you check all of the connections? Take pictures of your starter terminals and the battery terminals. I feel like you’re beyond the issue and chasing your ass as I said that on the 21st.
     

    208  1

    1990 Mitsubishi Mirage EXE (SLO CSM)
    manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 534  1

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM
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  15. triggerx

    triggerx Proven Member

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    Gilbert, Arizona
    A few grounds do look suspect (strands visible, but plenty of strands to complete a ground), or could look better. I plan on changing them out for peace of mind and adding more grounds when I get situated with everything else that's going on. Also If you look at my response to Jk's97DSM post, you'll see why I'm not convinced its my ground.

    So unfortunately I haven't found the issue, just a solution to at least to get the car started. I set up a push button start that feeds the starter solenoid pin directly to the battery when i close the circuit so this leads me to believe the grounds are fine. The circuit is still completing itself using the existing grounds in the car because with the push button the car starts up every time.The crank is strong too. If anything I'm more inclined to believe that there is an issue along the path of that 12v signal the starter solenoid is suppose to receive and not necessarily the grounds involved near the battery.

    Basically If I'm understanding Steve and these electrical diagrams right on the image below I can:
    • Ignore the portion of the circuit circled in blue, because its for automatic Vehicles
    • Ignore the portion of the circuit circled in red, along with the CSS only if I bypass the starter relay by pulling it out then jumping pins 3 and 4. This assures me that the anti-theft and CSS won't attempt to open the starter relay and break the circuit.
    Now in this situation, if the ignition switch is pushing out 12V and my grounds are good, the car should start.
    Unfortunately it did not start.
    So I wired in a push button start in between the starter solenoid pin and positive side post of the battery. Tried starting the car, and it starts every single time flawlessly. It will even start with the rest of the circuit intact so I don't believe the Anti Theft or CSS are causing my no start issues.

    What I believe this tells me is that my grounds are adequate enough to start the car, if all I'm doing is taking a wire to directly connect the solenoid pin to the + side of the battery. However I think this means that the 12V I'm suppose to be getting from the ignition switch is dropping somewhere along this Black/Yellow Wire or the ignition switch.
    That being the case, I think my next step would be is to verify that my ignition switch is pushing out 12V every single time directly off of it.

    tlndiag.png

    [​IMG]

    I'm going to have to check voltage along the harness when I get the car shipped back my way.

    Definitely correct me if I'm misunderstanding this circuit though, I'm trying to learn all that I can about my vehicle as I plan on keeping it a long time. Does the ignition switch get 12V directly from the battery? or is something else feeding it like a fuse, the ecu, etc?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020 at 5:13 PM
    Jk's97DSM likes this.
  16. Jk's97DSM

    Jk's97DSM Proven Member

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    So Mitsubishi’s in general are good for bad ignition switches that can cause it. Normally I see bad batteries that cause just clicks. Surface charges don’t equate to good cells in a battery. Bad connections. Cable terminals need to be tight and clean. Starter and alternator terminals need to be tight and clean.

    Yes the ignition switch should have 12V on one of the wires at all times. Swap the starter relay with another one also.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2020 at 9:19 AM

    208  1

    1990 Mitsubishi Mirage EXE (SLO CSM)
    manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 534  1

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM
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  17. jamel16

    jamel16 Proven Member

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    Richmond, Virginia
    I’m actually going through this same issue as we speak. I initially thought I bought bad starters, one from autozone and two from rock auto, but they tested fine outside the car. Then I thought my 9:1 compression was to high, but ruled that out because the car will eventually start. I’m completely lost on what to do next.
     

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    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    000.0 whp · 000.0 lb/ft · 1G DSM
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  18. Mech Addict

    Mech Addict Proven Member

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    Jackson, Wyoming
    So you seem to have ruled out faulty starter, since the direct wire worked consistently. Also seems like not the clutch switch nor the anti-theft, since you jumped those w/o success. I agree it’s sounding more like the ignition switch. I’ve not had to fiddle with mine (yet).

    I did notice on the wiring dia. that there is some odd little side circuit between the starter relay and the starter. It’s purpose is not labeled, but if it is a real branch that could interrupt the signal to the starter, then it could conceivably explain the symptoms.
     

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    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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