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Shimming the Transmission, an Easier Way?

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thedsmsource

20+ Year Contributor
63
0
May 2, 2003
PennsylvaniaUS
Hello,

I recently rebuilt my friends transmission, but must have shimmed the bearings a little too tight, it is rough getting into first and second and impossible to downshift into second from thrid. I was talking with a guy at BM Tranny and he said there is a tool that you can use to measure what the endspace should be to install the proper shim. Anyone what what tool we was talkign about? I reall y do not like the solder method. Thanks alot.
 
I haven't heard of a tool. All I heard of is the solder method. I will ask my instructor tomorrow at school for you though. I would also call SHEP racing and see what they say also. They are good rebuilders also. So you just did the tight clearances insted of loose clearances? When mine was rebuilt, I used tighter clearances. It was difficult to shift at first, but as the miles climb, it is getting easier by the day.
 
Originally posted by thedsmsource
Hello,

I recently rebuilt my friends transmission, but must have shimmed the bearings a little too tight, it is rough getting into first and second and impossible to downshift into second from thrid. I was talking with a guy at BM Tranny and he said there is a tool that you can use to measure what the endspace should be to install the proper shim. Anyone what what tool we was talkign about? I reall y do not like the solder method. Thanks alot.

using the solder method is the best way to go
 
Originally posted by Defiant
What, no dial indicators? :confused:

Defiant, you can somehow get a dial indicator in there? Or just use this to measure the solder? I know about measuring the solder with it, but I am interesed how to get a indiacator in there.
 
the guy at BM wasn't sure what the tool was from. It seems to be some sorta of telescoping micrometer.
 
You Rebuild Transmissions? How much would it cost to rebuild mine? I have a 92 Also.
 
Only for friends and family. Had a bad experiance where my friends rear/t case had problems and blew out my new tranny i built for him. Go to teamrip.com or shepracing.com both great companys. Don't let alot of people on the list to make it seem like rebuilding is really cheap. These guys will do it well and the first time.
 
yah, I wish a Friend of mine knew how to rebuild Trannys, would a 90 Tranny and X-case Fit in a 92?????
 
Originally posted by dsmcrazyspiff
using the solder method is the best way to go



don't forget good quality torque wrench and micrometer. Shim the race bearings at least 3 times and average them out. Select spacers as close to the middle value. Good luck.
 
I know that the right method is to measure the solder and calculate the shims, but I'm testing an alternative. Maybe it will work.

I made the shims with solder. Two complete turns in the same diameter of the shims and I melt them in many spots to keep the rings togheter. The rings are pretty solid and I thnik they will not fail and fall on the tranny.

When the tranny is torqued the bearing races will crush the solder rings creating some preload on the bearings. Its a little tight to turn the tranny (but it turns) by hand but I think with time it will lossen up a little.
Anyone has done this? what do you think?

Or I should not put the tranny on the car this way?
 
luizdiefenbach said:
I know that the right method is to measure the solder and calculate the shims, but I'm testing an alternative. Maybe it will work.

I made the shims with solder. Two complete turns in the same diameter of the shims and I melt them in many spots to keep the rings togheter. The rings are pretty solid and I thnik they will not fail and fall on the tranny.

When the tranny is torqued the bearing races will crush the solder rings creating some preload on the bearings. Its a little tight to turn the tranny (but it turns) by hand but I think with time it will lossen up a little.
Anyone has done this? what do you think?

Or I should not put the tranny on the car this way?

solder will not work as a shim
 
I think the way to use a dial indicator would be to attach it to the tranny case with some sort of a rig, and measure the back and forth play in the shaft with no shim (or loose shim). You can't reach everything this way though, only the input and intermediate shafts.

Leaving the solder in there will give you a hard shifting tranny at best (some of the shafts need clearance, you're putting preload on all of them), or it might crush if enough force is exerted on it (by the thrust of the helical gears), and that would not be good news for you. It will make a lot of noise, damage the bearings from the excessive play, maybe start breaking things.

I think the solder method works just fine. Do it a few times till you get repeatable numbers, and follow the manual (leave clearance on the shafts that require it).
 
Ok, there's also micrometers and digital calipers among other useful measuring devices.

I thought you were suggesting to measure the required shim thinkness directly with the calipers, which you can't. The original poster was asking for a solution that doesn't use solder.

You can use a dial indicator to measure play directly, but again, you can't access all the shafts.
 
raped said:
solder will not work as a shim

I'm not very knowledgable at all on trannys, but I ready a few books on the basics at least, and did read my OEM manual. The solder is used like plastigage to check thrust clearance of shafts, the gear case is torqued togather to crush the solder, then the solder is measured for clearance, and the propper shim installed. So it's an acutal measurement instead of visual reference like plastigauge. I suppose the case halves and shaft lengths could be precisely measured, but that's require large and very precise depth gauges, and dial calipers.
In that sense I think for what it is the solder method is just fine.

Bearing pre-load, I think is what he meant he set wrong, but My feeling is if the clutsh were good, all it might be worn synchro blocking rings.
 
groundPork said:
I'm not very knowledgable at all on trannys, but I ready a few books on the basics at least, and did read my OEM manual. The solder is used like plastigage to check thrust clearance of shafts, the gear case is torqued togather to crush the solder, then the solder is measured for clearance, and the propper shim installed. So it's an acutal measurement instead of visual reference like plastigauge. I suppose the case halves and shaft lengths could be precisely measured, but that's require large and very precise depth gauges, and dial calipers.
In that sense I think for what it is the solder method is just fine.

Bearing pre-load, I think is what he meant he set wrong, but My feeling is if the clutsh were good, all it might be worn synchro blocking rings.


I know, i rebuild many transmissions. Hey is trying to use the solder itself as a shim, this will not work.
 
raped said:
I know, i rebuild many transmissions. Hey is trying to use the solder itself as a shim, this will not work.


Actually that's not what he said. He said he did not like using the solder method of measureing the end play. He was asking if someone knew an easier way.

I think the tool he's thinking of is in fact a dial indicator, as ealier posters stated.

I could be wrong, but I would thinkit'd be quite difficult to measure it that way since end clearance is a total of space on both ends of the shaft while the case is toruqued togather. I suppose you could measure the bearing bore depth for each case half, and the total length of the main shaft and subtract the two, but that'd require some costly, long travel dial indicators (not to mention acurrate, when tight side of factory recommended is something like a few thousandths of an inch (.003")

Didn't mean to stamp your toes there...
 
read this post groundPork


luizdiefenbach said:
I know that the right method is to measure the solder and calculate the shims, but I'm testing an alternative. Maybe it will work.

I made the shims with solder. Two complete turns in the same diameter of the shims and I melt them in many spots to keep the rings togheter. The rings are pretty solid and I thnik they will not fail and fall on the tranny.

When the tranny is torqued the bearing races will crush the solder rings creating some preload on the bearings. Its a little tight to turn the tranny (but it turns) by hand but I think with time it will lossen up a little.
Anyone has done this? what do you think?

Or I should not put the tranny on the car this way?
 
groundPork said:
I could be wrong, but I would thinkit'd be quite difficult to measure it that way since end clearance is a total of space on both ends of the shaft while the case is toruqued togather. I suppose you could measure the bearing bore depth for each case half, and the total length of the main shaft and subtract the two, but that'd require some costly, long travel dial indicators (not to mention acurrate, when tight side of factory recommended is something like a few thousandths of an inch (.003")

I don't think that would be a good method. It's almost impossible to get a proper distance reading between two parallel surfaces with a dial indicator.

I was thinking along the same lines as measuring crankwalk with a dial indicator. If you know how that's done, you'll get the idea. It's just about measuring endplay.
 
raped said:
read this post groundPork

Holy crap! I take back what I said... totally didn't read that part. Sorry man!

I thought he was jsut measuring.. Oops.
 
steel_3d said:
I don't think that would be a good method. It's almost impossible to get a proper distance reading between two parallel surfaces with a dial indicator.

I was thinking along the same lines as measuring crankwalk with a dial indicator. If you know how that's done, you'll get the idea. It's just about measuring endplay.

Yes, but how do you measure the end play like that on a shaft with no exposed ends? That's what I was getting at.
 
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