Sharkquest!

[4g64Starion]

4g64Starion submitted a new DSM Profile :

Sharkquest!


Read more about this vehicle here...

 

[4g64Starion]

Still learning how to use this forum, and Mitsu's, so bear with me please.

Anyway, what I've got is an 88 Conquest Tsi, basically the same thing as the Starion. I fell in love with the shape of the car, and even better it is a factory turbo vehicle. If you live in CO you know how picky the emissions people are. Basically nothing is legally modified...unless it's pre 75, and even then, emissions tests can go back to 1941! I'm not sure why we don't have the rolling 25 year exemption like most other states. So starting with a car that's pre-OBD (no CEL issues or anywhere for them to hook a computer) as well as one that's factory turbo-ed and injected is a great platform.

The goal is to have a semi-reliable 700 hp monster that's sorta street legal. It's not going to be a daily, I'm not very worried about creature comforts, or air bags. I am concerned with making it safe though, and at least the motor strong/dependable.

Since this site is mostly for transverse style cars I thought I might bring a little knowledge for you guys. Oh and correct me I'm wrong. Most of my info comes from Project ZeroG.

As you all know there's a 6 bolt block, and at least 2 varients depending on the orientation of the motor int he bay. But what you might not know is that there are wide and narrow varients beyond that. The Mighty Max pickup came with both 2.0 and 2.4 litre Sirius motors. In both 6 and 7 bolt flavors as well. It's a matter of which year and which trans was on it. My engine is out of a 91 Max, so it's a 6-bolt with the wide-block pattern, which matches the wide-block that the Astron motor has as well. Basically it bolts right up to the Starion trans. So with the MM block I can use a 1g turbo head and viola, racecar! No more stupid cracked 4g64 heads and ridiculous TB injectors.

I've ordered a 6-bolt long rod Forged crank from Eagle (will take pics when it gets here), Manley Turbo Tuf I-beam rods, and some Pistons. Also have an ATI super Damper and big ol AEM fuel pump supposedly good for 700 on E85.

One of the weak points on this car is the trans, which will be getting a 17mm reinforcing plate to replace the thinner cast factory piece. Basically the trans pan comes off, and the whole thing only has 3 cast sides, so it's prone to warping at high power levels. Worst case scenario, I get an adapter from a B2600 to bolt the Mitsu motor ot an RX7 trans.

I'll leave it at that for now. Will add some pictures tomorrow.

 

[ThunderChild]

Nice, sticking with 2.4l displacement or doing a destroker? Good snag on the 6 bolt wide block!

Be a pretty sweet car once you finish

 

[4g64Starion]

Ah sorry for the long delay, work is trying to kill me.

I got some more parts! Yay, Manley Turbo Tuff 1k rated rods, and the correct 0-0 sized bearings for rods and mains.

Unfortunately I need to send the block back to the shop for another alignment bore, as I decided I want to add a Kiggly girdle. Not a huge expense, but a week delay until I can start assembly again.

Nice, sticking with 2.4l displacement or doing a destroker? Good snag on the 6 bolt wide block!

Be a pretty sweet car once you finish

I'm going to stick with the longer stroke, as I've had my fill of high rpm engines ( Yay Rotary!). Turns out the 6-bolt mighty max deal is pretty common, well at least there seems to be less demand for them than narrow block 6-bolts.

OK now I've got some more questions for you guys:

Oil pump? Do I run one from a Mighty Max, or from a 1g or from a 2g? Any preference on brands?

If I bolt a 2g manifold to my head, and port it so that the ports are matched, I still need to bloc off the EGR port right? Not to mention I would need to either fill the injector ports on either the head or the manifold (drill tap and plug maybe)?

In Starion related things, there's a huge brake booster, it tends to interfere with the manifolds, and it's 30 year old tech. So what I'm thinking, so that I can upgrade to bigger brakes, is to install a Bendix hydroboost system. Either from a Mustang or an Astro Van. Their masters go up to 1.25 inches, and can move a ton of fluid, so 4 piston brakes would be no problem, unlike the stock master and booster. Oh and of course Ford/GM parts are plentiful and cheap. I haven't figured out the calipers yet, but I think 3kgt should work, with a bit of grinding to fit stock wheels.

 

[Ryan4dc]

Nice build coming along. Does CO do a visual inspection or just the tail pipe sniffer for your car in particular pre-modification?

 

[4g64Starion]

It's both actually. They basically have a list of what the car should have from the factory. There's also a tailpipe test. Basically it needs a cat, injectors, fuel injection, egr (maybe), and can't have an older engine than what the car's year is. No obd hookup because of the age, so I can safely run aftermarket computer.


Been trying to wrap my head around the brake upgrade all day and it's not looking good so far.

 

[Ryan4dc]

Will they fail your car with a dohc head swap?

I’m running a dodge colt brake booster. It is much smaller and causes a harder pedal. Bought a vacuum canister from kegs to aid in more brake assist with the smaller booster.

 

[4g64Starion]

Well technically I shouldn't do anything to this car that I've done, but we'll see. I got a heavily ported rotary with all the emissions equipment vacuum solenoids removed to pass. All I did was get a quality new cat and hooked up the O2 pump, and tuned the carb a little lean. The results were really good emissions wise, it could have passed for a 2008 model vehicle. So I think they look for stuff, but don't really know the intricate details of what the car needs. Besides I'd like to not damage the environment if I can avoid it, our air quality here is pretty poor.

I just realized you've got a rwd 4g6x. That Colt booster looks like a good diea, but I'm wary of trying to get one, as they're pretty much obsolete, no? From what I've gathered, the 1998-2004 Mustang calipers, rotors and bracket will fit the front of the conquest. I'm not SURE, yet, but if it does that would be super useful as I'm basically stuck fabricating stuff if I go with the 3kgt route or the 300zx or the FC/FD. Not to mention the Mustang hydroboost is very compact and can move a ton of fluid. I need to get to the Yard, and pick some parts.

 

[Ryan4dc]

Booster was available as a special order from napa. I didn’t return the old one Incase I wanted to go back to the original later from some reason. It still worked so why return it as a core.

Keep the build going strong. Curious to see your upgrades. Might be useful info for me when I decide to upgrade stuff for my truck.

 

[4g64Starion]

Ah you guys probably thought I was dead. Guess what I'm not! Anyway, I finally got my block back from the shop, rebored, with the Kiggly girdle installed with the ARP main studs.

I've also pulled off the Instrument Bezel, sanded it and am getting ready to wrap it in a carbon wrap. The first try was a failure, but I watched some videos and think I've got it figured out. They're impossible to get in good shape/new, so I think this is a good choice.

It's been super cold or wet and work is trying to kill me again, so I don't have much time to work on the car. Oh and the Supra in the garage is taking up time too .

I've got the head all torn down, and am thinking I'll need the cam caps align honed? I see a little damage/scoring chrome/aluminum looking area. How important is a mirror finish in this area? I'm not going to run the stock cams, so it will be fresh metal on metal on this area, so that's why I'm nervous.

Oh and any good ideas for a block color? I'm thinking gunmetal grey, with a black valve cover.

 

[4g64Starion]

Prepped the block for painting today, and also ground the oil passages smooth. The weather hasn't really been cooperating, need 60+ for paint. Any other block stuff I should do before I start painting it? Obviously everything will be tapped again to clean threads out after painting.

 

[4g64Starion]

Update time! Got the block painted, yay. 2 coats primer, 3 color, and two clear. I almost went and smoothed the block, but that seemed too finicky. I'm not a an OldSkool sort of guy.

So I think I figured out the Master/booster solution. I'mg going with the parts from a 2005 Chevy 2500, only $200 brand new from Advance. It'll get me a hydroboost setup that should provide PLENTY of power. Regarding the calipers though, no dice on the Mustang setup. I'm thinking Wilwood will be the way to go, with some fabbed brackets. I'll likely loose my stock wheels in that case, which I'm not too happy about.

I've also ordered a bunch of parts I'm going to need, a 1g dsm oil pump, new Mighty Max water pump (aims straight out instead of 90 degrees like dsm), a 1.8 4g37 thermostat housing, due to its better angle, and 180 degree thermostat. Oh and lastly the Gates T256RB timing belt for the 1994 Galant. I still need some adjustable cam gears, belt tensioner, and BSEK, unless I go with the Gates racing shaft belt? Ring filer for pistons is also on the way, so assembly should start next week. I take it, I should wait until the head's been cut to calculate compression and then choose the HG I'll need. I'm looking at roughly $1700 in parts for everything to make the head go together, does that seem like a lot? Beyond that it'll cost me $500 for the machine work.

OK now here's where I could use some help. The Mighty max had 0 accessories on it. I need to know if I can use 1g stuff i.e. brackets, and such because the 2g stuff I grabbed at the JY doesn't fit at all! Worst case I'll use the new TIG machine I've been practicing with to make my own.

 

[ThunderChild]

What accessories are you needing, like power steering, alt and a/c? I'd just use 1g dam stuff as long as it fits, but idk what that will entail for wiring and plumbing.

Also, the cam journals don't need to be perfect per se, but I wouldn't want anything that catches a nail. Got pics of how bad they are?

 

[Devilsfutbol17]

Looks like you are off to a good start. Your build looks similar to my initial build on my 88 conquest, although I used the original 4g64 crank. If you want to see what all your in for, check out my thread. http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=148920 I tried to take lots of pics.

Couple gotchas that I remember are with the kiggly girdle and the ARP main studs, the 4g64 oil pan won't clear. I had to pound on the oil pan a bit. Once the bottom end was assembled I rotated the crank shaft and noticed a couple of the rods made contact with the block, so I had to mark the contact areas, disassemble it all, and file down the block in the areas of contact. But you have to be careful becuase if you take too much off you can get into an oil passage that you don't want to do. Then of course I had to clean the block again.

Lastly, my machine shop said I didn't need to balance the rotating assembly because it was balanced well enough already. Well I regret not making them balance it anyways because I have a lot of engine vibration that I think could have been mitigated with a good balance.

 

[4g64Starion]

Thanks for the info Devilsfutbol17! I was suspicious of the block clearance. But the shop already ground the block for clearance a bit so hopefully I won't have to do it again.

Alright! I managed to find a valve cover and have been feverishly applying paint stripper. It's almost clean. I'm going to polish it, and then apply a red candy/tint to it.

Got the rods and pistons assembled, and rings cut. Went with Manley's reccomendation of .024 inches for 30 pounds of boost.

This coming week I'm going to send the head out. Oh and all my GSC stuff showed up. Went with GSC 280's, 1mm over valves, new guides, AEM adjustables, 80 pound valve springs, Titanium keepers, and GSC valve seals.

I pulled a practically new set of lifters and rockers from the same Plymouth Laser that I got the valve cover from. Got super lucky finding that car, most 1g dsm's are gone the first day they hit the yard. I'm guessing the Plymouth fell under most people's radar. It only had 114k, and was super clean. I've no idea why it was in the yard, other than the fact that the owner had stripped a cam saddle bolt? Maybe the trans died?

Regarding the back of the head, and the water outlet. I got the piece off the JY card, btu I'm thinking I may just section some aluminum pipe and weld it to the flange of the housing. I don't need 90% of the fittings and sensors on that housing, and by my math, it would only stick out 1.5 inches or so rather than 3.3. Alternatively, I could weld an AN fitting to the flange as well. I'm getting better at Al welding, and I'd like to put that skill to use.

Oh one last thing, I'm wondering if I could use the 2g dsm cam position sensor that goes on the front of the motor, rather than on the back of the head. I'm running MS2, so it's crank triggered. I don't actually need a cam position sensor, but for sequential I'd like to have one.



Onto pictures!

 

[Devilsfutbol17]

Nice man I like everything about this build.

Regarding the 2ga cam angle sensor, I'm using one with a 1g ecu(also with a 2g crank trigger) so I'd imagine it will provide the cam angle to mega squirt just like a 1g CAS would. Little bit more info here. https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/2g-cas-crank-sensor-in-a-1g.497619/#post-153617495

 

[4g64Starion]

Very interesting about the 2g CAS. I'm thinking the 95-96 sensor would work, but it can't take into account cam angle change? I can see the problem, with your build, where the CAS hits the firewall.

On the otherhand, I think I'll just go with wasted spark, since I'm running MSII. It's technically not as powerful as sequential, but I don't think I'll be giving up much, especially if I move to COP and run them direct from MSII. The same thing applies to fuel, as I won't have a cam angle sensor. If I remember my theory right, most car move to non-sequential by around 2500 rpm anyway.

OK I was going to put the pistons and rods in today, but I hit a bit of a roadblock. The Manley pistons I have, are long rod style, so the pin is inside of the oil control ring. This means that I need to install the oil control support rings. They're REALLY hard to install, so looks like I need a ring expander tool. The damn instructions from Manley didn't mention these rings very well, and had no tips as to orientation. I did manage to get one installed, and the gap was HUGE. Around .24 inches. The min spec is .15 inches. This is way over that. I'm worried about that, but the part number is correct, I'm not sure what's wrong. I also managed to lightly scratch the skirt of one of the pistons. Does this mean I need a new piston? Ugh...rotaries are so much easier.

On the plus side, I dropped the head and its components off at the shop. Should be ready in 2 weeks.

 

[ThunderChild]

That small of a scratch shouldn't he an issue, it didn't mar the aluminum much of any, just the coating.

As for the support clearance, are you talking end gap clearance or it's oversized around the pistons that much? It's hard to tell from your description and pic.

 

[4g64Starion]

Ah sorry for the picture quality.

Good to know about the Pistons. It's the gap between the ends of the oil support strut ring thing that I'm talking about. I think Manley unfortunately refers to it as the STD system.

 

[ThunderChild]

If it's the end gap but it still fits in the bore, I'd just put the gap 90* from the wrist pin. But it'd probably be a good idea to call the piston/ring manufacturer and double check.

 

[4g64Starion]

OK got it figured out. So you have to put the support ring in first, then the lower oil scraper, then the golden spacer, and finally the top oil ring. It ll sits nice and is much easier to assemble this way. I wish Manley had better instructions. The gap sits right around .025 now, and I'm happy.

I've started installing the pistons, and wanted to check the rod clearance. Turns out Manley shipped the generic rod torque and clearance specs. I've already emailed them with the pn for my set so I can see what they recommend for clearance, and torque.

I'm hoping I'm wrong, but even with the clearancing the shop did earlier, I'm not sure the rods will clear the block. When I;m sure of my torque specs, and I have a chance to lubricate the rod bearings, I'll try turning it over.

 

[4g64Starion]

I got a reply from Manley, and they say to use the SBC specs for these rods, meaning 55-60 pounds with the ARP lube and a clearance of .02 to .03 inches. That seems way off from Mitsu specs?

 

[4g64Starion]

OK pistons are in the block! It took a while to figure out how to use the dang piston ring compressor... I'll have pictures tomorrow, I'm hungry!

Anyway, I measured all the rod clearances between .0015 and .0017. That seems very much inline with Mitsu specs. But way out from Manley's .002 to .003. I'm not sure who to believe.

 

[4g64Starion]

Picture time!

I spent a ton of time working on this cam-cover, and I'm still not entirely happy with it. It needs another ed coat, near the bottom, but I like where it's headed.

Also got the pistons in

It takes 55 ftlbs to turn the motor over, is that normal?

Oh and i dented the oil pan for clearance to the main studs, apparently the fwd/awd car pan is different? It only took about a millimeter of dimpling to make it work, so no big deal. I'm thinking it might be wise to add some baffling in the pan, but I'm not sure where.

I've ordered the new pullies/idlers that I'll need a long with the tensioner. The truck block uses a simply spring tensioner for the timing chain, so I think I'll be on a junkyard hunt for the cast iron lever thing that goes between the hydraulics, and the pulley that actually tensions the belt. Oh and I ordered a BSEK.

I've got about another week on the head, but it's getting there. I'm not sure where to start reassembly currently. Maybe the oil pump? But I'm pretty sure I need the BSEK in first.

Still unsure about the rod bearing clearances. Keep getting conflicting information.

 

[Devilsfutbol17]

Looks good man.

I don't remember what information I used for my clearances, but I was confident in the number I used and I haggardly wrote most if not all my clearances down. If you want I'll PM you my clearances. I've gone a few thousand miles with no issues and I've beat the shit out of the car revving the shit out of it drifting. I've seen oil temps up to 250 F while beating on it and no issues. I also bought an oil filter cutter to check for metal in the filter and I haven't seen any metal in it.