ECMlink Running Lean Issue

[Chrispy0530]

So my whole issue started out today when I decided to hook my AEM Wideband to my ECU for ECMlink logging (Using V3). Basically my car has been running great, but wanted to get a bit into playing with timing and such. So I went ahead and had my AEM hooked into the Rear 02 Pin.

When that was done, first thing I noticed was that #1, the data in the WB Log was different from what the actual gauge was showing me. The gauge was showing me completely lean at idle (Which is unusual. Even does it if the car is off..), and the log was showing me that I was rich. Though, my car actual was running lean, which has never happened at idle.

After going back and forth with frustration in trying to get this resolved, I give up and just cut the wire in hopes that it'll resume to normal. My idle was 14.7ish and same when I was at cruise speed before this AEM nightmare. Now when my car idle's, it's roughly 17, or --. The exhaust note of the car changes as well. Which indicates to me that it is running a bit lean from the sound and smell.

So now I'm at a loss on what to do. Wishing I never did this, as the car was running perfect.

 

[snowborder714]

Issues with the AEM and being logged properly are known.
aemwb [ECMTuning - wiki]

Are you positive you didn't somehow mess with the front o2 wire? It's right next to the rear o2 wire and is the same color (white).

 

[Chrispy0530]

You see, I thought that was the case, so I took what I had thought before was the rear 02 sensor, and put it back in that PIN. I'm still having the issue.

Already checked these and,
-Front 02 Sensor is new
-No Exhaust leaks
-No boost leaks



Here are 2 logs if the help any. These were while I was trying to get set up with AEM, but was still baffled by why the car was running lean.

 

[snowborder714]

Well, your front o2 is cycling in the idle log, so that is working fine.

However, on the ECU inputs tab, why do you have "Front o2" selected in the Wideband drop down box, but it input in the rear o2 spot? This might be causing issues.

 

[Chrispy0530]

I mean, that was always set like that as far as I remember. That was pointed out to me when I had the wideband hooked up to the ECU, so I had changed it to Rear 02 Sensor. But nothing changed, car still behaved the same way it does.

As of right now, the ECU has nothing connected to the PIN on rear 02, the AEM is operating by itself with no data going to the ECU. So WB simulation is set to Front 02, correct? or is it left Undefined?

 

[snowborder714]

If you have the wideband not input to the ECU, that dropdown box should be Undefined.

 

[Chrispy0530]

Went ahead and set it as Undefined. Unfortunately I'm still running lean.

 

[snowborder714]

I'm assuming you're running 550cc injectors?

It also looks like you're running an old firmware version, which I'd suggest upgrading.
ECMTuning, Inc.

I'd be inclined to put the AEM signal back into the ECU and get it reading right. Then grab another log and post it.

 

[Chrispy0530]

Just drove it for a bit, temp's get pretty hot now. Over heats real easy.

I'll go ahead and have it put back in tomorrow, though I regret ever doing it now in the first place. Will update the firmware as well.



Any other idea's or something I'm over-looking in the logs?






EDIT: 11:47am

Here is another log I took today. Car started over heating.



Normal coolant temps are 186-193. I saw 206, and would've kept climbing had I let the car sit idling.

Is there a setting on ECMlink that I'm missing/not seeing thats causing me to run so lean?? I can't think of anything else!

However, on the ECU inputs tab, why do you have "Front o2" selected in the Wideband drop down box, but it input in the rear o2 spot? This might be causing issues.

--

If you have the wideband not input to the ECU, that dropdown box should be Undefined.

Actually, I just looked at one of my logs from last year, and I had the Wideband setting to Front 02 Sensor, with no wideband connected to the ECU. The car was running perfect. Regardless I have it checked as undefined. Just wanted to make sure this was correct.

 

[Chrispy0530]

Still have this problem. I tried hooking it up back to the wideband, still gave me the same problems. I reverted everything back to how it originally was before I did this nightmare. The car still runs the same. It over heats at idle as well, where the car is really lean to about 20ish.

What can cause the car to go so lean?

 

[gofer]

Describe this issue deeper, trying to answer the below questions as detailed as possible. DSM's are hard to fix when you're staring right at them, its even harder when its on the other side of the country and you don't know a lot about the problem.

1. Why do you think the car is running lean?
2. Is there a certain time you think its leaning out idle/cruise/WOT or all three?
3. How hot does the coolant temp get?

The reason I ask is because your front o2 sensor shows that the cars running in closed loop just fine when its at cruising speeds and your coolant temp is good too. Read the AEM WB write-up and make sure you installed it correctly, when you start cutting wires at the ECU you can really mess things up if it was the wrong wire. Ask me how I know. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-electrical-wiring/383190-1g-2g-aem-uego-wiring.html

If you could post a log of the car fully warmed up, past 190* coolant temperature, letting it log/idle for a few minutes. Reason being, I'd like to see your idle fuel trims with the car fully warmed up and see if its tuned correctly for those injectors. I don't think your car is overheating either, the typical DSM has coolant temps from 203* to 210* with a perfectly work coolant system. I see you have your coolant temp CEL set for 196* which is cold, the car from the factory doesn't kick on the radiator fan until 210*. Once coolant temps get up to 220*+ then you can start getting worried about overheating issues.

 

[Chrispy0530]

Hey Gofer, thanks for responding. I'll try to be as detailed as possible.

Why do you think the car is running lean?
Car is running lean, based on a few things.

1) Wideband show's that the car is running lean. There are no exhaust leaks that could cause my reading to be off, as I wish that was the case.

2) AFRationEst on DSMlink even shows so. I know that's not a reading that is accurate, but for the most part it's always been very close to what my WB shows for the past year.

Once the car is in the warm up process, it sounds fine, idle's fine, and AFR on my wideband is perfect. 14.7ish. But when the car is fully warmed up, exhaust note changes on the car (It's almost as if it gets a lot quieter), and the wideband starts dropping down lean. Used to go all the way to 17, or passed it which was un-readable. The car, also would over-heat as well. ONLY, while idling.

Now, I was suggested to select the 02 Sensor to lock in open loop on the Misc tab, and that somewhat helped a little bit. Car doesn't run AS LEAN, and does not over-heat at idle anymore. I know for a fact the car was over-heating before because the temps would keep rising as the car was sitting there. On my recent logs, it doesn't show it going too high, but I did post where it got to 206F, which my car never gets to. Specially just sitting there.

Is there a certain time you think its leaning out idle/cruise/WOT or all three?

For the most part, the car runs good when it's cruising (maybe a bit rich actually sometimes), and WOT pull's are rich as they should be. The problem really just gets me when the car is sitting still.



How hot does the coolant temp get??

I didn't log it, but I let the car sit to see if it would actually go up passed 210, it got all the way to 223, and I shut it off. Way higher then I'd ever let it go. This was prior to locking in open loop.


I'll go ahead and get the logs for you tomorrow morning and post them up here.

 

[gofer]

ECMLink does have issues logging the AEM UEGO wideband as I'm sure you know, I even think Brian mentioned a bit above as well. The displayed AFR is 100% accurate on the gauge though, of course assuming there are no exhaust leaks OR vacuum leaks. A good boost leak test, particularly around the TB/IM, could help diagnose the lean idle after warm up. Reason being, at idle the cars in vacuum so if there is a big enough leak the motor will be sucking in un-metered air, in turn creating a lean condition at idle. You did mention that the AFREst in Link also displays it being lean but you're using the old firmware so its only as accurate as its settings, which should be changed when upgrading injectors or changing fuel pressure. By changing the settings of your logged AFREst in the provided log above even Link is showing that your AFR's are stoich, see below.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Of course, none of the above AFREst changes will matter once you get the new firmware since that numbered is pulled directly from your DA OLMaxOct map.

From what I see in your log, and from what you're telling us, I'm pretty positive the lean condition you are getting is because of a vacuum leak.

 

[Chrispy0530]

Yeah, I thought it was a vacuum leak as well. Already sprayed soapy water and tried looking for any cracked vacuum lines, IM, ect.

The AEM Wideband I'll try to get reading right on the logs sometime Monday. Was just hoping that I'd have this issue resolved by then.

Here are 2 logs. Both have some idle time on them. The first is a warm up and the second is sitting in a long line in a drive thru.

Really hoping my problem isn't something like a blown HG or something.

Since the ECU is locked open and runs a BIT better, I'm leaning towards buying a new 02. But I thought bad 02's made you run rich, not lean.


Also, during the idle's, the estAFR are a bit off in comparison to my actual wideband gauge. They're not so rich more like 15ish - 16ish. While Accelerating normally, they're more like 12.8 - 13ish. Thought they were supposed to be like 14.7ish.

Pulls are pretty rich. (Not shown in any of these 2 logs, as I didn't do any today). I also updated the firmware too on the ECU.




Food for thought:
Evo III 16G
Stock FPR
255 LPH Walbro
560cc FIC Injectors





EDIT:

More great news! [/sarcasm]

So as I was driving the car to work, I was cruising on the highway. Notice the car acted a bit funny. Looked at my Wideband, and instead of it showing 14.7ish, it shows "--"I'm like, great. I coast off to the side, and rev it a bit. It gives off that Miss-Fire subbie like sound.

Looked to see if any couplers were blown off or such (which would cause it to run RICH.. not LEAN.) and nothing. Finally gave up, shut the car off. Started it back up to take a log and problem was gone. Seriously . Drove it back to work trying to continue and it would keep doing it.

To get the car off completely lean under any kind of throttle I would ave to keep restarting the motor.


Also got 2 DTC's on ECMlink.

-0300 Random Misfire Dectected
-0125Exessive Time To Enter Closed Loop Fuel Control.

Attached a cruise log to work. Happens towards the end.. (It's the long random file name)

 

[olmytsi]

Chrispy, I think you def fried something when you hooked the wideband up to the ecu so you could log it.

Are you running a 6 bolt? If so, make sure you have link set to ignore misfires.

Don't worry, you'll figure it out soon...c you next sunday at the meet perhaps.

 

[Chrispy0530]

The motor itself is a 7-bolt, but it's hooked up to a 6-bolt CAS. Already set for misfiring on ECMlink.

I'm really not sure where this new problem has arised from. Cruising on the highway, the car will suddenly lose power, sound like a subbie, and run super, super lean. Turn the car off and on, and problem is gone till it appears again.

It's really frustrating. I can't get the A/F ratio's how they once were prior to the AEM install, and yeah. I mean MAYBE it's a huge freaking coincidence that it happened RIGHT AFTER and has nothing to do with the AEM install? (Doubt it though) I don't care what caused it. I just want the car running right again and I'm not sure what else to do.




Actually, I just noticed in the log that I posted, my 02 Sensor volts stops cycling.

 

[gofer]

Make sure the front o2 sensor signal is getting to the ECU across pin 76, you did cut the rear o2 signal wire which is pin 75 so you might have damaged the wire somehow. If its in good shape then replace the front o2 sensor, hopefully that clears up your issue. A front o2 sensor doesn't fail a certain way every time, sometimes they get stuck and depending on which voltage it sticks at the ECU will do something different.

To stop the random misfires you need to go to your DTC's tab and uncheck "engine misfires" from the list.

 

[Chrispy0530]

Okay! SO! Update.

I haven't changed the front 02 sensor yet simply because I'm waiting on my paycheck to come in Friday, and will have it done first thing Monday.

What I did do however, was calibrate my TPS via ECMlink, and got the WB logging! So now it' show's whats on my gauge.

As you can see, my car runs lean at idle (After warm up). Also has a time when it goes nuts during highway speeds where the car goes all subbie like mode and sounds weird. Goes super lean only at highway cruising most of the time. (Shown in attached deadlog below)



3 new logs.

cruisetobestbuy.elg | Game Front

cruisehomefromKFC.elg | Game Front

Yes, I used gamefront to upload data log files . Tuners said the files were too big.

 

[Kryndon]

Okay! SO! Update.

I haven't changed the front 02 sensor yet simply because I'm waiting on my paycheck to come in Friday, and will have it done first thing Monday.

What I did do however, was calibrate my TPS via ECMlink, and got the WB logging! So now it' show's whats on my gauge.

As you can see, my car runs lean at idle (After warm up). Also has a time when it goes nuts during highway speeds where the car goes all subbie like mode and sounds weird. Goes super lean only at highway cruising most of the time. (Shown in attached deadlog below)



3 new logs.

cruisetobestbuy.elg | Game Front

cruisehomefromKFC.elg | Game Front

Yes, I used gamefront to upload data log files . Tuners said the files were too big.

Necroing this thread because I see OP is still active on the forums. @Chrispy0530 did you end up figuring out why you were having lean AFR readings? I know it's 10 years ago but still.