Running 16's at the track???

[EagleTalonTim]

Ok guys, I have no idea what is going on. I just got back from the track and I am not happy at all! I ran nothing but 16's all night. My worst run was a 16.4 @ 88mph and my best run was a 16.0 @ 88mph. I was running these exact same numbers on a 13g with 450 injectors @ 15psi! This is the first time I went to the track with this current setup.

Here is my settings with my setup listed in my profile :

Fuel Pressure : 43psi
Boost : 21psi
Timing : 5° BTDC
NGK spark plugs gapped at .28

Now for those who don't read my profile, my car is 1g Auto but I have a manual push button shifter. I have an EVO 3 16g with 560 injectors. The ECU is chipped to match my setup and my SAFC is zeroed out across the board. The problem I am having is I cannot get the turbo to fully spool until around 4000 rpm's. Why is my time the exact same with all these upgrades as it was when the 13g and the 450's were still installed?

Diagnostics on the car :
1 to 2 counts of knock occasionally. Not on every pass.
Compression : 155, 150, 150, 150

I don't have the tickets with me but here are some number off the top of my head on what I ran :

Average reaction time : 2.5
60 foot time : 2.8
1/8 mile time : 11.6
1/4 mile time : 16.0

 

[PIMking]

I cant belive your turbo is spooling up so late. Check for pre turbo exhaust leaks. FYI I ran 14.7 on a stock 1g talon for my first run

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Ok guys, I have no idea what is going on. I just got back from the track and I am not happy at all! I ran nothing but 16's all night. My worst run was a 16.4 @ 88mph and my best run was a 16.0 @ 88mph. I was running these exact same numbers on a 13g with 450 injectors @ 15psi! This is the first time I went to the track with this current setup.

Here is my settings with my setup listed in my profile :

Fuel Pressure : 43psi
Boost : 21psi
Timing : 5° BTDC
NGK spark plugs gapped at .28

Now for those who don't read my profile, my car is 1g Auto but I have a manual push button shifter. I have an EVO 3 16g with 560 injectors. The ECU is chipped to match my setup and my SAFC is zeroed out across the board. The problem I am having is I cannot get the turbo to fully spool until around 4000 rpm's. Why is my time the exact same with all these upgrades as it was when the 13g and the 450's were still installed?

Diagnostics on the car :
1 to 2 counts of knock occasionally. Not on every pass.
Compression : 155, 150, 150, 150

I don't have the tickets with me but here are some number off the top of my head on what I ran :

Average reaction time : 2.5
60 foot time : 2.8
1/8 mile time : 11.6
1/4 mile time : 16.0

Are you brake boosting the car at the line? 1G auto is a pure dog off the line. Pull some fuel out right at the point where the converter stalls out while brake boosting, to build up some boost off the line. This will dramatically decreae your 60' times. Remember, every .1 off your 60' almost equals .15 off your 1/4 mile ET. Plus....Get a wideband and see what your AFR is. If you don't have one, read your O2 voltage off your datalogger. Most likely, you are running pig rich, which isn't allowing you to make any power. How much timing advance are you getting at 5-6k rpm?

Your lack of a satisfactory ET/MPH stems from poor tuning, and improper driving skills.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I did check by putting a small amount of oil in one of the cylinders and watching for any gloss spots to appear while it ran at idle and revving it a few times. I used to have one, but I used the manifold sealant on it and it fixed it perfect

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I have been brake boosting off the line but the most I can get is 6psi off the line if I am lucky. It stays there even with the gas mashed all the way down. I shifted every gear at 6700 instead of 7000 since it seems to drop in power around there for some reason.


EDIT :

I will do some pulls tomorrow and get some datalogs. I accidentally left my logger stopped each run.

AND.......I was running 98 octane.

 

[AWD_Hybrid]

EVO 3 16g with 560 injectors. The ECU is chipped to match my setup and my SAFC is zeroed out across the board.

If the timing maps are stock, bump the cas to 12deg & set the A/F to 11.5 with your safc
Stall it to 3200 at least.
Cheers !

 

[mheidemanjr]

get that pig pro tuned!

 

[Bud92gsx]

Tim, I don't understand it either...How does she feel when launching by yourself?
I'm also using about the same setup minus the chip, and 550's... I also don't undsertand why the E3 is spooling at 4k though either..Mine will be fully spooled and starting to creep at 4k.. is wrong with your talon..

Also, what weight reduction measures have you taking in the dizzum?

Let us know what you do, or what you look at so we can get this figured out for ya Tim...

 

[My1GLaser]

The problem I am having is I cannot get the turbo to fully spool until around 4000 rpm's.

Your WG flapper is partially hung open. Shim the actuator. I had to do that on my brand new MHI Evo 16g 2 years ago. Stick a couple small washers b/w the compressor cover and the actuator where it bolts up. It will also preload the actuator and help it hold boost better in the higher rpms.

Did you watch the boost gauge to see how bad it was falling off by redline? Its a PITA to watch all that at once, but you have to find out if it is holding well. I used to give mine a quick glance and it seemed fine, but I never realized how bad it fell off at redline until I really started paying attention to it.

 

[tunethis]

I have been brake boosting off the line but the most I can get is 6psi off the line if I am lucky. It stays there even with the gas mashed all the way down. I shifted every gear at 6700 instead of 7000 since it seems to drop in power around there for some reason.


EDIT :

I will do some pulls tomorrow and get some datalogs. I accidentally left my logger stopped each run.

AND.......I was running 98 octane.

Was your car tuned for that 98 octane? That may have been the problem or part of the problem. Your car probably runs much better with 93 octane or what ever your chip is matched for. I'm no expert at tuning but, that just stood out.

 

[Bud92gsx]

But if the octane is reset with the chip, and tuned for 98 octane it shouldn't be a problem..Unless of course it's tuned for 93 and using 98..

Are you launching in 1st or 2nd Tim?

 

[Jeff99GS]

Holy crap your 60' is killing you if its 2.8
Once you get off the line you should be fast with an auto. It should stay ON boost the whole length of the track.

Check for boost leaks and exhaust leaks. I ran faster than that with my Subs and Girlfriend in the car haha.

 

[habitatguy187]

You either have a boost leak, pre-exhaust leak, or are running pig rich, turbo is spooling way too late, and your trap speeds should be muuuuuch better with an e3 at 21psi, even with the horrible 60'.

BTW: The 98 octane gas won't hurt anything.

 

[gmentals]

Your WG flapper is partially hung open. Shim the actuator. I had to do that on my brand new MHI Evo 16g 2 years ago. Stick a couple small washers b/w the compressor cover and the actuator where it bolts up. It will also preload the actuator and help it hold boost better in the higher rpms.

Did you watch the boost gauge to see how bad it was falling off by redline? Its a PITA to watch all that at once, but you have to find out if it is holding well. I used to give mine a quick glance and it seemed fine, but I never realized how bad it fell off at redline until I really started paying attention to it.

I second this. I had this problem on a 16g before.

 

[Nick2gGST]

user error?

 

[EagleTalonTim]

i am awake now

Quick answers for everyone....

1. No weight reduction at all.
2. Wastegate holds perfect all the way to 7k without falling out.
3. If i could afford an wideband, I would get one right away for sure! Having a kid due any day now hinders me from getting much else at the moment. My friends have said my car smells funny at WOT when they follow behind me but my logger shows my O2 voltage at .82 to .78 at WOT. The O2 is brand new and I have tried using 2 different ones and even grounded the O2 dump to ensure a good reading.
4. There are no boost leaks. I checked all that before I went to the track.
5. The first 4 runs down the track were with 93 octane and I was getting pissed about my times so I threw some 98 in there and ran about 5 more times.
6. I am sure it is not user error since every single time was almost exact.

 

[e85_4g63]

Your MPH seems (from what you listed, both times) to be even, which I'd say points to a poorly tuned car but on the up side it is consistent! Who did your chip? Do you have a FPR? I didn't see the chip, or a FPR in your profile. Are you on the stock SMIC? Are you using any kind of water or meth. injection? What does your car weigh in at with you in it? What's your 1/8th mile E.T. and MPH? (I saw the 11.6 but I was wondering if they where all that slow). I don't want to put you down or anything like that, but your 60' is not the greatest. Your 1/8th and 1/4 E.T.'s do line up E.T. wise which is another indicator that the car is consistent. I'd say your car is either (or both) running PIG rich (high 9's or low 10's AFR wise) or 2) (this is my guessimation -->) your car is pulling so much timing that it's just not "making power" at all. When you get a chance to do some logs, log at 21 psi then lower the boost down to 15 psi or so and make another pull. Something is def. wrong! You'll get it fixed though! We'll help all we can.

*** Tuning the car, via the chip, for 93 oct., and running 98 oct in there isn't going to mess up the tune, UNLESS your car is tuned for 93 pump gas, and you put e98 (methanol) in the car and didn't adjust the tune, then your in for some problems ***

Some other things worth asking: Is your trans slipping? (from heating it up on the line). Do you have any kind of line pressure mod or shift kit done to the trans? What altitude are you at? What fuel base (gasoline, methanol, etc.) was the 98 octane fuel you ran in the car? Let me know and I'll give some more suggestions. Anything else that you have done to the car that isn't in your profile by chance? (something you may have forgotten about maybe?)....

 

[EagleTalonTim]

The AFPR is in my profile which is a Fuel Lab 1:1 AFPR purchased from STMDSM. The chip was programmed by DSMChips.

I now have all my time slips to where I can put them down..... here is the best one :

60' : 2.697
330 : 7.139
1/8 : 10.598 @ 71.32 mph
1000 : 13.593
1/4 : 16.189
E.T : 83.49

The fastest run of the night for me was @ 89.29 mph in 16.393 mph

I just got back from Premier Autosports and I showed them a datalog and they were puzzled as well.

Here is the most resent datalog. If anyone has any suggestions on what I should change on the settings, please let me know!

RoadSurge.com - CSV Conversion for ID : 26


EDIT :

Yes, I am still running the stock SMIC, I am not running any kind of water or meth injection, and I have no idea what the car weighs with me in it. The body is 100% stock. Even the rims

 

[My1GLaser]

2. Wastegate holds perfect all the way to 7k without falling out.

That still doesn't mean that it isn't partially cracked open causing full boost to come on late. Holding 21psi to redline is still well within the both wheel's effeciency.

It very well could be a pre-turbo exhaust leak...normally the turbo to manifold bolts work loose shortly after a turbo install if they weren't hot torqued.

 

[Cmele89]

i think you should get your trans checked out its VERY possible its slipping .Do you have anything done trans wise???

 

[e85_4g63]

I can't really understand that log. If someone could simplify it for me that would be great. I'm interested in the timing from 3600RPM to 7000RPM (or less, I think I recall you saying you shifted at 6700 or there abouts). It's really hard to tell what's going on without being there. What NGK plugs are you running? (7's I'm guessing). I didn't see the FPR in your profile (maybe I can't read or something idk)* edit * I just checked again and still didn't see it. Can you provide the specs on your chip? What's your SN on the dsmchips forums?

 

[EagleTalonTim]

The transmission is 100% stock and is one that I bought from Japan about 6 months ago. I don't have a TCU so I just use my manual shift box so each shift is at 100% line pressure. I know 100% that my transmission is not slipping.

After I installed my turbo, I ran it for about 3 hours around town and when i got back, I re-torqued everything. After I re-torqued it, I put a small amount of oil in number 3 cylinder and cranked it up. There was no oil spots coming out of the manifold or any other spot that I could see.

I just checked the wastegate and the actuator and the actuator is actually holding the wastegate shut really good. I had to clamp vise grips onto the actuator arm and pull really hard to get the wastegate arm attached again. I made a grove in the metal with my knife to see if the arm made it not close all the way and it stayed right where it was supposed to be.

After taking it for another test drive, I still noticed the car does not fully come alive until 3800 to 4000 rpm's which has to be the problem with my slow times at the track. I just cannot get the take off to do any better

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I don't have a screen name on DSMChips i don't think If I do have one it will be EagleTalonTim. I am running NGK BPR6ES plugs gapped at .28

EDIT :

The first part of the log, I am brake boosting up until 09:37:20. After that it is WOT through 3rd gear.

 

[e85_4g63]

EDIT :

The first part of the log, I am brake boosting up until 09:37:20. After that it is WOT through 3rd gear.

This helps! I'll recheck the log and get back to you. Did you make any other changes when you changed out the turbo that might have effected the spool up time? Also do you have the spec's for your chip that you could post?

* edit * I was looking back over the log and I have 2 questions. 1st: where is the RPM on the log at? and 2nd: At the end of the log, your o2 sensor sits at 0 volts. Do you know why that is or what's up with it?

 

[zhjiln]

you can easly get into the low 15's... just practice launching .. get it the 60' times under 2.0 seconds....