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2G rods and pistons

Posted by Brandonjffrs96, Feb 20, 2020

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  1. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

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    i have a 7 bolt that should be making 500 to all 4 once im finished with it and we all know at that point the rods are a big concern. anyways im looking into Manley turbo tuff rods with je pistons. is this a good combo? or would yall recommend something else. ill be running a fp black if that should be taken into consideration.

    are wiseco better than the je? kinda need some help on this one.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020

    Road Race Build 264  8

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  2. ThunderChild

    ThunderChild Supporting VIP

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    Standard Manley or Eagle rods are sufficient for that power. More important is the fuel you're using and intended use, that will help determine compression and piston composition.

    I would think some Wiseco or Manley pistons would be fine as well.
     

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    fwd · manual · 1G DSM

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  3. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

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    e85 is a must. if you dont mind id really appreciate a link to what you would recommend.
     

    Road Race Build 264  8

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  4. ThunderChild

    ThunderChild Supporting VIP

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    Street Build 605  3

    1990 Plymouth Laser N/T
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM

    622  8

    1987 Toyota Pickup/Hilux
    awd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 1K  7

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

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    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM

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    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  5. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    I am assembling a 7 bolt right now with Eagle 5900 H beam rods and Wiseco 855 pistons. It should handle 500 with no problems on 40#s of boost and E85. I run Manley H beams and Pistons and big boost on a 6 bolt and she likes it.
    I beams are good to around 1000hp. Bigger wrist pins would have been nice on this build is all, but the .200" pins are what I have to work with and they'll do. This build sheet shows .004 PTW clearance but I am actually going with .005" Wilson Engine Shop MW2 Spec Sheet 2-2020 Matts 7 Bolt(2).png
     

    Street Build 4K  29

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    14.74 @ 117.04 · 1G DSM

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    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
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    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
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    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  6. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Ring gaps for big boost are very important also, so if you arent sure, ask when you get there. I have my values I use and work good, I am sure others have their "special sauce" too!
     

    Street Build 4K  29

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    14.74 @ 117.04 · 1G DSM

    1K  14

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    711  18

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 973  7

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 6K  13  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  7. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    Wiseco owns JE, I'm not a fan of either, but Wiseco is the lesser of two evil's.
     

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    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
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  8. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

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    ill definitely keep that in mind. would these work for me? might be a dumb question but im a body guy not a motor guy. especially when it comes to the 4g's, i dont know much. stock head if that matters

    https://www.extremepsi.com/store/Br...ishi-Eclipse-4G63-7-Bolt-and-EVO-VIII-IX.html

    https://www.extremepsi.com/store/Wi...0-1-C.R.-92-99-Mitsubishi-Eclipse-7-Bolt.html

    can you send me a link or two of what you'd recommend. i have atm a mostly stock 98 gsx. im gonna be running a fp black on e85. what rods, pistons, etc should i buy for the bottom end.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2020

    Road Race Build 264  8

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  9. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Yep. Those rods are almost identical to the Eagle 5900s. Pistons are the same that I have except mine are lower compression, 8.3:1, and .020 oversize.
     

    Street Build 4K  29

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    14.74 @ 117.04 · 1G DSM

    1K  14

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    711  18

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 973  7

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 6K  13  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    Brandonjffrs96 likes this.
  10. spoolnmotorsports

    spoolnmotorsports Probationary Member

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    Never had any issues out of a Wiseco piston. Have a few friends with some higher hp dsm's as well, they run Wiseco with no issue.

    If you have access to e85, higher comp pistons. Lower compression for lower grades fuel.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2020
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  11. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    I have my red Talon, she's seen 614
    Blue Talon shows 450-480
    White GSX shows right at 300
    The Red and the Blue Talons both have H beams and Manley Pistons. Red car at 10:1, Blue at 9:1. I run constant 33#'s on low boost. On E85 they both turn into a whole lot more. Well, the Red car was on E with that reading. My Blue car is on craptane 91 gas, soon to be on E.
    All figures were with drivetrain loss figured in but its just the best I can do in my part of the country.
    These motors aren't complicated, you just have to understand them. We can all help out on here.

    The higher the compression, the harder to control timing. E does like it but easier to boost MORE on lower 9:1s and run on gas if need be. I go from 5* max on gas to 18*+ on E so the power really comes in then.
    I DO run those pistons in the Red car motor but they are ceramic coated with 22mm pins.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2020

    Street Build 4K  29

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    14.74 @ 117.04 · 1G DSM

    1K  14

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    711  18

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 973  7

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 6K  13  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
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    Brandonjffrs96 likes this.
  12. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

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    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020

    Road Race Build 264  8

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  13. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    Google "Cracked Wiseco piston", you will see that some people have had problems with them and not just on 4g63 applications, I was always a Wiseco fan, and I had bought a set and was ready to install them, I ended up selling them off and I bought custom pistons instead, I just couldn't bring myself to go with them after the wrist pin that came with them had "made in Taiwan" on the outside of the cheap cellophane packaging. I still like the company as a whole as far as customer service goes because they are generally quick to respond with questions or with problems, with that being said, if your running the Wiseco pistons only run the HD version, they seem less prone to the cracking issues, I have been at Wiseco, in the front office, where the customer service reps work and the manufacturing buildings there, good people who make good products, I just dont like the automotive off the shelf stuff that they sell, bike stuff no problem, custom stuff no problem.

    http://www.venolia.com/forged-pistons.html

    https://wossnerpistons.com/pages/auto

    https://pauter.com/parts/rods/

    These are the ones I had made
    http://www.venolia.com/gallery/images/products/pistons/import/mitsubishi-4G63-piston.jpg.html


    It all depends on your budget and the amount of time you want to wait for these parts, several of those companies above do not stock parts, they make them to order, just be aware of that, I am of the mindset that I would want room to grow without another tear down and selloff of parts only to buy parts a second or third time to hope to get it right this time, for me I would rather save up for another month or two and wait longer to have custom parts made myself because as everyone knows your goals for your car will increase when you get bored with 400hp, then again at 500hp and then again at 600hp, etc etc, so why not just get the best right out of the box? I personally am to poor to buy cheap.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2020

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    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
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  14. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

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    im curious about the wossners. i read they re good for high performance vehicles but how do i know if they are the right one for me? it has no specs or compression on them.
     

    Road Race Build 264  8

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  15. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    Call them up!
     

    Drag Race Build 3K  24

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  16. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Looks like it would do the job!
     

    Street Build 4K  29

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    14.74 @ 117.04 · 1G DSM

    1K  14

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    711  18

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 973  7

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 6K  13  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    Brandonjffrs96 likes this.
  17. spoolnmotorsports

    spoolnmotorsports Probationary Member

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    That combo will treat you well.
     
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  18. RWD4G63

    RWD4G63 Proven Member

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    I see you're in Michigan. Just take your engine to these guys and they'll get you setup with a proper combo. They use custom Diamond pistons in their assemblies.

    https://www.whalentuned.com/collect...-dsm-product-line/products/v1-dsm-short-block

    It seems like you're new to DSM's, yeah? What made you decide to go with an FP black? They're pretty lazy if this is a street car. I see in your profile you're looking for 500 at the crank? A black is really oversized for that. You could do it easily with E85, an FP red, and some new version Kelford 272's. You can probably do that with a FP green on E85 honestly. Both the red and green are significantly better street turbos, much more responsive.
     

    Road Race Build 293  3

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  19. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

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    yeah im fairly new to dsm's but i wanted one for years. after doing a lot of research and thinking i decided that i want at least 500 to the wheels but nothing over 600whp. i know a guy whos been a huge help and he sent me a parts list that im going off of. he personally has a ball bearing precision turbo but said that the black would be a good turbo if i ever wanted to shoot for more power. as i said though i dont want anything crazy and i heard if you dont have at the very least 500whp the black wont even open up. but if you do have 500 plus itll put you in the seat at 5k-8k. anyways i am still considering a red or green instead. i have gsc power division billet stage 2 cams (274/274) in the parts list btw. nothing is really set in stone yet other than the fact that i want 500ish to all 4 wheels and id like to run 10's down the quarter. feel free to add your thought and or concerns.

    changed my mind to these rods
    https://www.extremepsi.com/store/Ma...7-Bolt-4G63T-and-EVOLUTION-VIII-IX-150mm.html
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020

    Road Race Build 264  8

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  20. RWD4G63

    RWD4G63 Proven Member

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    Personally I think there are a myriad of better street turbo setups than a black. Yeah it’s bolt on, but are you really that concerned with it? For instance, a Morrison fab consolidated twin-scroll T3 manifold with an hx35 and E85 will put you at over 500whp at the wheels, run 10’s, and have a massively better powerband for the street. There are a ton of different combos like that, just depends on budget. I would also definitely consider the new kelford 272R, as it outperforms the GSC S2. Buy once, cry once on the rods as well, get I-beams.
     

    Road Race Build 293  3

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  21. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

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    Road Race Build 264  8

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  22. deboelduro

    deboelduro Proven Member

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    I had the same goal as u before and I’m glad I went with turbo tuff rods and Wiseco HD’s 0.20 over @ 8:5 comp also e85.made 661whp on a bolt on fp3575 @38lbs. You’ll always want more power. Build it right the first time :hellyeah:
     

    Attached Files:

    Street Build 1K  13

    1992 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    661 whp · 511 lb/ft · Galant VR-4
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  23. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    How much boost were you pushing?
     

    Street Build 4K  29

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    14.74 @ 117.04 · 1G DSM

    1K  14

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    711  18

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 973  7

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 6K  13  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  24. deboelduro

    deboelduro Proven Member

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    Joined Sep 5, 2007
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    38psi at the time
     

    Street Build 1K  13

    1992 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    661 whp · 511 lb/ft · Galant VR-4
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