Resuing well seasoned Eagle Rods

[bastarddsm]

Ok so I've had a set of eagle rods in my car that were lightly used. They were machine shop inspected and both end's were good. I've had them in the car for about 2 years. I recently had a wiseco piston fail, and I'm building a new motor with a set of JE pistons. I always run ACL Race bearings and have never had a bottom end failure, the bearings came out looking like new still. My tunes are always good, I run a felpro composite gasket and standard ARP's and never put them out, ever. My rods have had about a million passes and 10k mi at 450whp, an actual 150 passes at 550whp, and probably 50 passes at 650whp when the piston failed. It was only at 550+ for this summer. I was planning on having them checked, and reusing them. Then I saw ViperLP's picture of a mangled eagle at near the power level I was making.

So can I reuse these rods? I really don't have the money to buy a new set of rods, but I will if needed.

I see several guys running the eagles and making 650+, which is where I was and going to be.

I'm not putting manley anything in my car, so don't even suggest that.

Whats the lifespan of an eagle rod?

I'd prefer suggestions from guys making power, not 200whp wannabees who's brothers cousin's mother's friend had a 6trillionhp evo with eagles.....

 

[TSI_93]

Are they in spec? Stretched at all? Big end/little end out of round?

 

[bastarddsm]

No they are in spec. I am worried about metal fatigue...

 

[lasthope05]

Get a different set of rods like pauters or crowers. I wouldnt reuse them. Not that they would be bad or anything but at those power levels those rods are going to be reaching their design(H beam)limit. Im sure you will can make that kind of power on eagle rods but it'll just be a ticking time bomb. However if you decide to reuse them also check rod bolt stretch and replace as necessary.

 

[TSI_93]

If you wanna make any sort of real power you have to spend money.

If your worried about metal fatigue then yeah I would go ahead and get a new set.

If your making 350-400 wheel I wouldn't worry about it. Maybe sell them to someone who just wants a nice mid-range build.

 

[YZFR1]

I'd prefer suggestions from guys making power, not 200whp wannabees who's brothers cousin's mother's friend had a 6trillionhp evo with eagles.....

Hey watch it there, you are talking about my brother's car with a 35r, 2 liter, 6 bolt rods and close to 20k miles

On the real though, i would say if you are paranoid about it than replace it, if not, and they are in spec just run them. There are a lot of things that can fail at any given time that are out of our control IMO.. definetly check rod bolts for stretch like mentioned earlier, my 2 cents.

 

[dsmornothing]

In my honest opinion. Steel doesn't really fatigue unless you had knocking issues or detonation. Vipers rods were nearly all blued from wrist pin failure. Heat and impact are the two things that will kill a steel rod. (High heat that is) personally I would run them. But then again what's 300$ for some piece of mind?

 

[JacksonAuto]

Clean and mag them to see if they're cracked. If not, the check the ID of both ends and check them for twist. If all is good, get a new set of bolts and run 'em. 600-650 is pretty much their limit. If you plan on turning it up a bit then get something better.

 

[bastarddsm]

Clean and mag them to see if they're cracked. If not, the check the ID of both ends and check them for twist. If all is good, get a new set of bolts and run 'em. 600-650 is pretty much their limit. If you plan on turning it up a bit then get something better.

Thanks Mr JAM. I'm not planning on turning it up at all really. In fact Imight dial it back after I. get a 10.

 

[viperlp01]

I have no idea WTH happened to the rods before I got them but they were blue around the pin when I got them. I really think they got hot from who knows what and it fatigued the metal. I would not be worried about running rods that magnafluxed out and everything else was in spec. My rods where running on thin ice and when I dropped 40psi on them they fell through ..

 

[swifteagle]

If you wanna make any sort of real power you have to spend money.

If your worried about metal fatigue then yeah I would go ahead and get a new set.

If your making 350-400 wheel I wouldn't worry about it. Maybe sell them to someone who just wants a nice mid-range build.

A good set of 6bolt t rods with arp's are good for 450 and eagle rates the hbeam for 900-1000hp

 

[dsmornothing]

I disagree that 600-650 is all h-beams can handle. There are 7 bolts that have made that on stock rods (counting evo's because its only fair). From what Viper has told me he lost his bottom end when he was held on the line by an idiot. Granted I'm sure with his setup and the torque it produces it wouldn't have been long.

A good set of 6bolt t rods with arp's are good for 450 and eagle rates the hbeam for 900-1000hp

Where are you pulling these numbers from? That is absurd. Well over 400 can be handled on 6 bolt rods and stock bolts. And no way is an h-beam going to handle 900-1000. Not in a 4 cylinder at least.

 

[viperlp01]

I had zero detonation marks on my pistons, The head gasket seemed ok. It was hard to tell with the carnage but it was not "blown" by any means. The head was perfect so the rod broke on the power stroke. I was held at the line by the dumb ass next to me not staging. I logged 36-40psi for 5 secs at 3600 rpm( I just ended up red lighting and it happened at 5-10ft out). I would imagine it was an immense amount of torque but the car was not any harder to hold back on the brakes. With all this being said it is not a HP number that you should be worried about. You should be worried about the amount of torque and how long you make that much torque.

 

[phunny]

It's funny this thread just came up because I was thinking about the my rod/piston combo. I have eagle rods with over 600awhp and eagle says that they H beams will handle 900hp. Not sure about anyone else but I've never had an issue with them.

 

[swifteagle]

I'am not saying that 6bolt rods are only good for 450Hp. And has anyone ever broke a hbeam due to metal fatigue?

 

[dsmornothing]

I'am not saying that 6bolt rods are only good for 450Hp. And has anyone ever broke a hbeam due to metal fatigue?

Metal fatigue is the cause for almost all rod failures in a properly tuned car.

 

[BogusSVO]

I have no idea WTH happened to the rods before I got them but they were blue around the pin when I got them. I really think they got hot from who knows what and it fatigued the metal. I would not be worried about running rods that magnafluxed out and everything else was in spec. My rods where running on thin ice and when I dropped 40psi on them they fell through ..

I could guess, with them all being blue around the pin. Whom ever had them before you, tried to use them as a "press fit" rod

 

[JacksonAuto]

I disagree that 600-650 is all h-beams can handle. There are 7 bolts that have made that on stock rods (counting evo's because its only fair).

I don't really agree with HP "ratings" but we've got to have some sort of guideline to go by. My comment about the H beam rods was based on our observations after evaluating them once they've been run. Rods that had been run over 600-650 were all out of spec, both ends and pin bushing wear was considerable. Just because a rod doesn't break it doesn't mean it's not being pushed past its limit.

We usually rate components at 70-75% of the manufacturers max rating when used in a turbocharched engine. We stretch it to 80-85% on n/a engines.

You've also got to remember that if a member here makes a recommendation and it causes you're engine to fail, he's got nothing to lose. If I make the same bad recommendation or build an engine using parts I know to be inferior, it's my reputation and business on the line.

For what it's worth, I wish the stock rods would hold up. We make a lot more money rebuilding them with ARP bolts than we make selling a set of aftermarket rods!

 

[JacksonAuto]

And has anyone ever broke a hbeam due to metal fatigue?

There's a distinct difference between metal fatigue and a rod that's being pushed past it's limit.

 

[lasthope05]

I disagree that 600-650 is all h-beams can handle. There are 7 bolts that have made that on stock rods (counting evo's because its only fair). From what Viper has told me he lost his bottom end when he was held on the line by an idiot. Granted I'm sure with his setup and the torque it produces it wouldn't have been long.



Where are you pulling these numbers from? That is absurd. Well over 400 can be handled on 6 bolt rods and stock bolts. And no way is an h-beam going to handle 900-1000. Not in a 4 cylinder at least.

600-650 might not be all an eagle rod can handle but its a limit/safetly margin for the motor. Im sure you can make 900 on the rods but for how long? I know very well that the 6bolt and 7 bolts can hold similar power levels with a great tune but it'll be on borrowed time. People pulling those numbers out of a stock block dont run their motors hard or for very long for that matter before they rebuild it, it blows, or they detune/lower boost. Its not how much power it can hold for a brief amount of time but, how it can sustain it before failure. And with those power levels I would rather go with something more beefier like the pauter x beams vs a tooth pick eagle rod.

 

[bastarddsm]

Ill have to check them out good then. But I feel better about reusing them. Now go respond to thread about wrist pins.

 

[dsmornothing]

There's a distinct difference between metal fatigue and a rod that's being pushed past it's limit.

I'm not here to argue but pushing it past its limits and fatigue are pretty much the same in my eyes. The more power you push through them the faster they fatigue, correct? Isn't what fatigues a rod the constant force applied to the top of the piston? The more power you run the more pressure and the more heat and torque applied correct? Just my point of view on it.

 

[YZFR1]

I recently had a wiseco piston fail, and I'm building a new motor with a set of JE pistons.

Care to show how the wiseco failed for research purpose..

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Ill have to check them out good then. But I feel better about reusing them. Now go respond to thread about wrist pins.

I'd re-use them if they mic out and you've mag'd them. Have they cooked blue?

Excessive torque (cyl pressure) and/or heat is what's going to kill them, if anything.

I have an NPR Piston/Stock Rod/ARP Hardware/ACL Bearing 6-Bolt bottom end that I've been using for the better part of 4 years and a dozen turbo setups, including a GT4088 and an S200sx on kill, that when asked I'll say is built to avoid the inevitable "BS" or you're on borrowed time comments.

That said I expect the new turbo to make them cry uncle eventually.