[RESOLVED] FIC 950's still no-go (Maybe not 950's?)

[architechnik]

EDIT: Title should end (Maybe not 950's)

I bought some injectors advertised as FIC 950's some time ago. I have tried multiple times to get them into my vehicle with no luck. I program my own ECU, so getting the dead times and pulse width adjustment is no problem (if they are the correct injectors).

With the injectors installed the car does not turn over more than a couple notches where it sounds like it is trying to start. I'm getting too much fuel - to where the plugs have residual fuel on them.

These injectors have several engraved markings, but none say anything about 950. I noticed NEW FIC injectors have a sticker on them, but these just have the etchings

One side says "FIC"
And the other says "125-1000" or maybe "125-100" as the last "0" looks iffy.

Any suggestions?

 

[architechnik]

I will next try to program for 1050's to see if that will accommodate this. I don't know if the spray pattern will be correct, but if I can get these running then I'll be a lot happier.

 

[snowborder714]

Mine have etching and they say 125-1150 * (where the star is a number 1-4 indicating where they should go in the fuel rail). Mine are 1150cc.

 

[jshuman]

I ran into a similar problem where my fic injectors were supposed to be 650cc but those setting would not work. I later found a receipt that said they were 950cc. I talked to a rep from fic and he said if the number ended in 14 they are 650, if it ended in 44 they are 950cc. As it turned out they did have a 44 and were 950cc. You could try to contact fic and see if they can help you.

Hope that helps,
Justin

 

[architechnik]

Thanks, guys. Mine don't have any numbers after the set, but some of the 0's look like 6's. I'm assuming it's just because those etching pens suck to hold and write with any accuracy.

I noticed on their website that there are no 1000's listed and the current model number for the DSM low impedance 950's is 125-0950. I'll try asking if they have a model 1000 that would have a different dead time or fuel flow by comparison.

 

[architechnik]

I just noticed that on the neck of each of these injectors there is a different lettering! I have no idea what this means, but each has a "W" with another letter below - "R," "W," "U," and "Q"
Does anyone have an idea what these mean?

EXTRA EDIT:
Alright, I've found additional markings that suggest they were actually a modified Delphi/PTE injector, as there are small stamped numbers on the top "4065 17113744"... I have no idea if these were modified by FIC or if they were actually etched by the previous owner.

I have not yet located the actual dead time or global adjustment settings for the PTE equivalents versions, as they are listed as 1000's. This is quite frustrating and a bunch of BS! I wish I knew who was F'ing with these things.

From the ECM Wiki, it looks like I'll have to try these settings:
PTE / Delphi 1000 : -51 Global : 450 Dead time : Modified GM Rochester 17113744 injector : Actual flow: 940cc

 

[snowborder714]

I have no idea if these were modified by FIC or if they were actually etched by the previous owner

I believe FIC's larger injectors (if not all of them) are modified Delphi's, with the exception of maybe the 1600's which were another brand.

 

[jshuman]

I just noticed that on the neck of each of these injectors there is a different lettering! I have no idea what this means, but each has a "W" with another letter below - "R," "W," "U," and "Q"
Does anyone have an idea what these mean?

EXTRA EDIT:
Alright, I've found additional markings that suggest they were actually a modified Delphi/PTE injector, as there are small stamped numbers on the top "4065 17113744"... I have no idea if these were modified by FIC or if they were actually etched by the previous owner.

I have not yet located the actual dead time or global adjustment settings for the PTE equivalents versions, as they are listed as 1000's. This is quite frustrating and a bunch of BS! I wish I knew who was F'ing with these things.

From the ECM Wiki, it looks like I'll have to try these settings:
PTE / Delphi 1000 : -51 Global : 450 Dead time : Modified GM Rochester 17113744 injector : Actual flow: 940cc

That sounds like the same way mine are labeled. The number on yours ends with 44 which would indicate 950cc. What settings were you using before? I use a global of -53 and a deadtime of 330us. I would be more than happy to pull one of my fic 950s to compare numbers with you if that would help. Just let me know.

 

[architechnik]

That sounds like the same way mine are labeled. The number on yours ends with 44 which would indicate 950cc. What settings were you using before? I use a global of -53 and a deadtime of 330us. I would be more than happy to pull one of my fic 950s to compare numbers with you if that would help. Just let me know.

I would REALLY appreciate if you could pull those numbers off of yours and maybe these truly ARE FIC injectors with just a little sway one way or the other. With so much fuel, just a slightly off setting could do it.

I was using a global of about -53 to -52, which in terms of stock conversion comes out to around 23 in hex or (47.3%). I added 330 us of DT to each of the points on the Deadtime map.

I was noticing that some of the Delphi recommend a much higher DT of around 450 with a smaller global. I guess this would cut down on overlap spray onto the back of the valves, but I don't know if it would be correct.

A solution will likely wait until Monday when I can get a word back from FIC about older injectors and any special attention needed for those.

 

[jshuman]

I should be able to get those numbers Sunday afternoon. As far as the settings go, you should be able to tell how much they need tweaked by your fuel trims. I will post those numbers back to you as soon as I get them.

Justin

 

[jshuman]

Sorry I didnt get those numbers yesterday. I ran into an ecu problem on my 90 and I didnt make it up to the warehouse where I keep my 2g. I am going this evening though and I will get the numbers.

 

[architechnik]

Thanks again. I still haven't heard back from FIC, but it's only just past noon and I sent the message late Friday. I'll give it another day and then try calling; I don't want to bug them too much.

 

[architechnik]

I heard back from FIC that their older 950 injectors for DSM's WERE labeled as 125-1000. They replied that they do not perform any tuning or engine management and therefore could not supply any response as to the variation or cause for the flooding I experienced.

Also, since injectors are only open during correct operation, a faulty injector would not cause this problem. They suggest sending the injectors to them for testing and cleaning and I likely will take them up on the offer. I would like to salvage these injectors, whether I use them in the future or resell them (I never sell anything I am not certain works properly).

Thank you, JSHUMAN, but I will not need those injector numbers, so you can keep them in the car. Thank you again for everyone's help!

 

[jshuman]

I just got back from the warehouse where I have been working on my dsms all night. My injectors are labeled as you just described. They also have the number ending in 44 on the fuel rail end of the injector. I am glad to see you got a conformation from fic on that.

 

[architechnik]

Thanks, man. Yeah, I guess it's just how they modified them earlier on and then advertised. I guess the older ones actually flow just over 950, though as they were shooting for 1000, so I'm going to try to increase the global reduction. I'll play with it until something happens