2G Rear sway bar?

[sdees2002]

Getting ready to finish up my suspension mods with the addition of a thicker rear sway bar. So far my suspension mods are Progress Sport lowering springs (1.5" drop), KYB AGX on all corners, and front and rear strut bars.

I'm considering getting either the Suspension Techniques 19mm rear sway bar, or the Addco 22mm rear sway bar. (stock front is 19mm, stock rear is 15mm). I want the car to have a slight tendency to oversteer (FWD drift, heheheheh), but I don't want it to be too stiff. Does anybody have any experience with either sway bar?

Do you think the 22mm is too thick? I plan on doing a bit of autocrossing also (SCCA solo 2 street modified). All comments are appreciated. And BTW, I'm aware of the sway bar set available from RSDSM, but it's $300, and it's designed to give the car 'neutral' handling characteristics. Remember that I want some oversteer.

 

[psyjoniz]

honestly - i don't think it matters at all unless you are buying some sortof spring-loaded swaybar (which i've never even heard of) - they are all going to do basically the same thing. i got mine for like 25 bux a piece - plain steel bars - nothing special - they work.

 

[2-0turbo]

Originally posted by psyjoniz
honestly - i don't think it matters at all unless you are buying some sortof spring-loaded swaybar (which i've never even heard of) - they are all going to do basically the same thing. i got mine for like 25 bux a piece - plain steel bars - nothing special - they work.

Well, yes and no. Yes, they all do the same thing, but the degree to which they do it is VERY different and dependant on thickness. The thicker it is, the "stiffer" that end of your car becomes. You should really keep the terms right though, and describe the addition of a thicker rear bar as "increasing rear roll stiffness". It is easier to keep the function of each suspension component more clear in your mind. (explains why you can also add roll stiffness with various combinations of springs and dampers).

Sdees2002, you may really want to reconsider your wish for an oversteering car. Unless this is a track only car, you DO NOT want a car that behaves this way on the street. To be perfectly honest, you don't even want one that behaves this way on the track. The fastest way around a corner is with a barely noticeable 4-wheel drift. Traction at each tire is maximized this way.

You can create problems with even a "neutral" car. The problem arises with fore/aft weight transfer. If you go diving into a corner and mid-corner realize you are going too fast and get on the brakes, this is what happens: you unload the rear axle (weight transfers to the front axle) and load the front. Depending on your cars balance, the rear end may or may not come around on you. This can also be caused to happen while under power in a corner. If you go charging into a corner and suddenly lift (because a kid ran out in front of you), you can upset the chassis and lose the rear end of the car. Guess what? You are no longer in control. Not good.

So, be careful what you wish for. Unless you are just a poseur and are looking to attract the attention of cops at every turn by wagging the rear end out, I don't think you want a vehicle that prefers oversteer on the street (or the track for that matter). It is not fast and it is not safe. If you really want to do this, weld in a straight bar, put your car on a trailer and go enter it in drift competion. I hear that is "the bomb"

Matt
'90 TSi AWD
(neutral to slight understeer with RMDSM rear bar)

 

[sdees2002]

thanks for the input. Keep in mind that I only want a car that slightly oversteers. Your sig says 'neutral to slight understeer' I want the same thing but 'neutral to slight oversteer'. I'm not some kid who wants to drift around every corner on the street. Hell, I dont want to drift at all on the street! But I would like to be able to drift a little at say a SCCA Solo 2 event (it looks good on tape). Oversteer is easy to control in a FWD car. When the rear starts to swing out, put your foot on the gas and the front wheels bring it right back in control. I have a friend who's CRX handles this way, and I love the way it handles

 

[Awdboost]

RRE sells the Energy suspention for the sway bars.. Why don't you look into that? Also it a pain in the ass but doing all out bushing for you car is awsome.. I just did it.. Man is the car tight.. I love it. And it's not as bad as every says it is. You get a smaller increase in road noise and your car become more bouncy. But it handles like it's on rails.

 

[sdees2002]

Originally posted by Awdboost
RRE sells the Energy suspention for the sway bars.. Why don't you look into that? Also it a pain in the ass but doing all out bushing for you car is awsome.. I just did it.. Man is the car tight.. I love it. And it's not as bad as every says it is. You get a smaller increase in road noise and your car become more bouncy. But it handles like it's on rails.

Thanks for the input. What bushing kit did you get?? I was seriously considering upgrading to all polyurethane bushings but was skeptical about it because of all the horror stories I heard, but if it really isn't that bad then that's something I'll definately be doing....

 

[RocketDSM]

I found a way to get "slight oversteer" that you might like. Run two different tires (front/rear). I run Kuhmos up front for their ultra stiky grip (cornering), and run Yokohama Paradas in the rear. Originally I had Paradas all the way around, and it drove like a tank. I blew a front tire and replaced the pair with Kuhmos for the price. I haven't looked back at all. The intial turn in is great with the Kuhmos, and the Paradas glide through the back perfectly. Once in a while I can feel the Paradas start to slip and I just gun it a little, let the AWD kick in, and take off again. See what you come up with in your area. As for the sway bars dierectly, main thing I keep in mind when tuning them is the ratio between them rather than the actual size. If the stock is 15/18 and you go to 19/22, what really changed? You made the whole thing more stiff, but didn't change the attitude between the two ends. So don't forget that side of it also.

 

[nholley]

Hey, I know I am a bit late coming into this, but I am just wondering how those KYB shocks are? I can't decide between the KYB, Koni or the Illuminas.

Thanks

 

[RocketDSM]

As you can guess I'm partial to the Tokicos....