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Re using piston rings

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YungTlon

5+ Year Contributor
104
12
Mar 6, 2018
Pueblo, Colorado
Please read the whole post before you get too crazy.

So, I picked up a talon for $1,000. It was thought to have needed a head but I threw new plugs in it and it started right up. Sounded like a dead lifter. Put all new lifters in it and still makes the noise, have came to the positive conclusion that it’s a bad wrist pin. I have two good rods and pistons from my old stock bore 6bolt. I was wondering if I just pull the head so I can pull the pistons from the top and then drop the pan so I can pull the rod caps off and proceed to get the rod and piston out if I could swap rings from the motor they came from into the pistons from my old motor and just throw them in? And say when I try to pull the pistons from the top the rings catch on the ridge and break, can I use the rings from my other bone stock 4g?Everything is stock. Stock pistons , rings, bore , everything . So in my head I feel like it could work.It’s a 190k motor and I am just not interested in rebuilding the whole thing right now even though I now it’ll need it in the future.I can buy new rings if need be but I just wanna slap it together , if I buy new rings I’m not sure how it would act considering I’m not going to hone the cylinder It’s a bone stock car and I’m just going to daily it. I do not plan on honing it either because the crank will still be in the car . Tell me your thoughts ? Thanks all
 
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After reading your post it is obvious you know that what you are trying to accomplish is risky but it`s the chance you take. Being that the rings are sprung while in the cylinder it may be difficult getting by the top ridge as you know ..maybe you could use a short length of wood dowel against the rod and a hammer to tap it out..?? .It`s obvious you know how to twist a wrench so when the job is done doing a compression test will let you know if the rings went back in okay..... As Larry the Cable Guy would say... " Gettr Done " Easy for me to say when you have to do all the work. LOL
 
You'll need to de-glaze that cylinder wall for the rings to seat properly or at all.
Its just me maybe, but unless the motor had maybe 5-10 minutes run time, I'd replace the rings. Stock rings aren't expensive but as @Widgmaster said, its risky. Do you feel like doing it twice is what I would ask myself. Trying not to be harsh, just trying to point you in the right direction.
 
Sounds like a classic “field repair” scenario. How long are you hoping it runs like this, before you might pull the motor and do it properly? We all have faced the “good enough for now” equation. I’m sure you have thought of this but once it’s reassembled, turn the crank by hand for a bit to ensure it acts normal before you turn the key.
 
After reading your post it is obvious you know that what you are trying to accomplish is risky but it`s the chance you take. Being that the rings are sprung while in the cylinder it may be difficult getting by the top ridge as you know ..maybe you could use a short length of wood dowel against the rod and a hammer to tap it out..?? .It`s obvious you know how to twist a wrench so when the job is done doing a compression test will let you know if the rings went back in okay..... As Larry the Cable Guy would say... " Gettr Done " Easy for me to say when you have to do all the work. LOL

my biggest fear is actually getting the piston out without breaking the rings because as you and I both know the ridge can be kind of brutal, especially on a motor with that mileage . I wouldn’t mine using the exact rings that came out of that cylinder because that’s it’s home . That would be like having a home wrecker set of piston rings (; haha. I also had the thought cross my mind that when you have these dudes with 5.3’s and they say “I re gapped the rings for boost” most of the time they literally pull the rings and re gap and drop them back in. Then again there’s a lot of shit I’ve done that shouldn’t have worked that did , for example putting a cometic on a not resurfaced head or block and cranking the boost . Car ran like that for almost a year and made south of 500 horse, I’m kinda iffy on it but then there’s some people that have had success. Might just have to send it and see !
 
You'll need to de-glaze that cylinder wall for the rings to seat properly or at all.
Its just me maybe, but unless the motor had maybe 5-10 minutes run time, I'd replace the rings. Stock rings aren't expensive but as @Widgmaster said, its risky. Do you feel like doing it twice is what I would ask myself. Trying not to be harsh, just trying to point you in the right direction.
I completely understand where you’re coming from, I would love to glaze the cyl I’m just scared to do it in the car with all the microscopic material falling down into the crank area, it just doesn’t sit right with me. I would love to rebuild the motor at a later time when I’m in the position to do so. My machinist is building my 6 bolt and really can’t afford to have two of them not running right now . I know it’s a thing that I shouldn’t do but I’m kind of curious to see if it would work you know what I mean? Considering it’s all factory stuff , all factory bore. I know that’s probably not quite how it really works considering the rings need to seat to their own cylinder wall. But I’ve heard stories of people doing it and it makes me wonder what the outcome may be when I try it . I will update of course when I do it . It’ll be next week sometime . Gonna pull the head and drop the pan and get it knocked out in a day.
 
Sounds like a classic “field repair” scenario. How long are you hoping it runs like this, before you might pull the motor and do it properly? We all have faced the “good enough for now” equation. I’m sure you have thought of this but once it’s reassembled, turn the crank by hand for a bit to ensure it acts normal before you turn the key.
I’m hoping the motor will run and be decently healthy as long as it wants to be . For being such a old motor that things breathes man it seems like it’s really healthy just from seeing how much air comes from the spark plug hole when you hand crank the motor it seems like it actually is in okay shape . And yes I’m gonna crank it by hand and make sure everything goes smooth and nothing is touching , hitting . I’m gonna use the timing tensioner compressor rod too and just zip tie the shiz out of the cam gears so when I turn it by hand too it’ll also be so I know whether the motor went back in time or not .
 
Do it right dont skip replace with new hardware, especially rings why chance it, these are rings really important not tires, or a battery.
 
I've never really ran into a ridge issue with 4g motors. The majority of them have a large amount of carbon built up at the top I'd scrub it off before knocking the pistons out. Then depending on if the pistons came out without breaking rings then check ring tension. If the two check out dingle ball hone the new cylinder and toss them in. Itll work in a pinch while your waiting for the new engine. Is it the best way? Obviously not but what's the point in putting new rings in a cylinder that's probably not square and on pistons that have worn to a different cylinder bore?
The obvious correct way is to hone the cylinders and verify they are square then match a set of pistons to that bore.

I've been dsming since 03 and I've done what your suggesting just to get by and honestly that motor had alot of blow by. Would always spit the dipstick out over 15lbs but never blew and got the car drivable while the new engine was under construction
 
I've never really ran into a ridge issue with 4g motors. The majority of them have a large amount of carbon built up at the top I'd scrub it off before knocking the pistons out. Then depending on if the pistons came out without breaking rings then check ring tension. If the two check out dingle ball hone the new cylinder and toss them in. Itll work in a pinch while your waiting for the new engine. Is it the best way? Obviously not but what's the point in putting new rings in a cylinder that's probably not square and on pistons that have worn to a different cylinder bore?
The obvious correct way is to hone the cylinders and verify they are square then match a set of pistons to that bore.

I've been dsming since 03 and I've done what your suggesting just to get by and honestly that motor had alot of blow by. Would always spit the dipstick out over 15lbs but never blew and got the car drivable while the new engine was under construction
Good info, thanks! And honestly the motor in my awd car had bad blow by I had to make a spring so the dipstick wouldn’t fly out and they tested like 92psi across all four . But the car lived on 27 psi for a long time and only broke because I think I stretched a rod bolt . My point is, this car I’m working on is a bone ass stock car and only plan on beating on it in stock form, stock boost, everything !
 
UPDATE:
I finally decided it would be the least I could do to atleast de glaze the cylinder as stated above by @1990TSIAWDTALON . I couldn’t get my hands on a ball hone in time so I’m just going to give the cylinder a quick run with a stone hone, a couple ups and downs just to get some nice hatching in there . Still not sure if I’m going to use the rings that came from that cylinder or from my other motor . The only reason I’m questioning using the same rings from the motor they came from is I’m afraid it was experiencing piston slap from the bad wrist pin therefor damaging the rings(maybe). But nonetheless it’s getting a light hone just for a better chance at maybe seating .
 
Update #2
So I was in such a rush because I had limited time to do it . It just so happens that a little bit of time cleared up . Enough for me to order rings and bearings . With that being said I am going to do it right and do new rings and hone the cylinders, and top it off with some king rod bearings .
 
Glad you thought it over. :thumb:
 
@1990TSIAWDTALON has always been there for me too . Lets give a big Tim Allen WOOT WOOT WOOT for our staff ... Admin...Moderators and Wisemen .. They are the glue that holds this ship together . You guys give yourself a pat on the back...it`s well deserved .....
 
Agreed ^
My only concern now is with the bad wrist pin comes piston slap. And I plan on just taking a hone to the cylinder and hopefully it stays within PTW clearances and all that jaz. I did rip on it a couple times the other night thinking it was lifters before I found out it was a pin. Hopefully it’ll be a simple fix
 
Thanks guys! That is our goal, to be helpful and kind.
Let me say that I doubt you will have any PTW issues. Wipe the walls down with ATF 5,6,7 times on a white paper towel to remove all hone grit and you should be just fine. Make sure that towel comes out red with no grey on it and you have done it the best you can. You are using a better piston or wrist pin, right?
Also, do something to keep you from hitting the oil squirter with the hone like a pc of cardboard cut in a circle and taped to the hone shaft for knowing how deep you can go. One clip of the hone and the sucker will break off so be aware of that! :thumb:
Marty
 
Thanks guys! That is our goal, to be helpful and kind.
Let me say that I doubt you will have any PTW issues. Wipe the walls down with ATF 5,6,7 times on a white paper towel to remove all hone grit and you should be just fine. Make sure that towel comes out red with no grey on it and you have done it the best you can. You are using a better piston or wrist pin, right?
Also, do something to keep you from hitting the oil squirter with the hone like a pc of cardboard cut in a circle and taped to the hone shaft for knowing how deep you can go. One clip of the hone and the sucker will break off so be aware of that! :thumb:
Marty

Yes sir , on the bad cylinder I am going to just use my oem piston and rod from my last 6 bolt. If it held up to 27 psi on a 60 trim I’m hoping it’ll work on a stock rebuild haha! And good advice on the squirter. Thanks :)
 
Just didn't want you to hurt anything and I know that is kinda in the way. I always remove them but if you are careful, I think you can do this and leave it in. JUST BE CAREFUL. :thumb:
The bottom end won't be as balanced as it was but for what you are doing it should still work. The different piston will be a little different in weight.
 
UPDATE:
For anyone wondering the car is done. I believe this car is haunted as the last owner is deceased and there is some stuff that should not be happening here as in the rod bearings being DESTROYED but the crank being spotless, or the head trying to fight and getting stuck on its head studs. With that being said I did get everything fixed and figured out . Car seems to run good and has 20 miles on it now. Did a lot of vacuum pulls and a couple rips. Seems healthy . If there is anyone having the same problem as me with finding OEM style piston rings . NPR is junk and sent me the wrong rings. Advanced and autozone said everything was discontinued, gave Orileys a call and lone behold they sell them. They’re MAHLE rings and the part number is 41599. thanks everyone for the help
 

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Well parts are becoming hard to find, send them back to where they came from ive used nprs before no issues. Oem ones are from npr if im correct, mitsubishi doesnt make oem rings anymore, they are outsourced.
 
Well parts are becoming hard to find, send them back to where they came from ive used nprs before no issues. Oem ones are from npr if im correct, mitsubishi doesnt make oem rings anymore, they are outsourced.
Yeah not sure what the problem with NPR was, but they refunded me so we’re good. No clue how they sent the wrong ones but hey I got it figured out so that’s all that matters
 
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