Racing Automatic?

[TyphoonZR]

Hey John, I just purchased a 91 talon AWD turbo automatic and I know nothing of the history of this car. I bought knowing that the tranny was puking oil. I pulled the tranny, found the front pump bushing had moved forward and eaten the front seal, it actually came out with the converter. So I bought a new bushing, and installed a new seal and filter, drove it for 30 minutes and it would appear the problem has returned, it is starting to leak oil already and at first it was fine.

At about 3500 rpm I have a bad vibration which I believe is the cause for the bushing going. I also have no O/D, when I click the O/D button, it seems as if it hits neutral. Does O/D use the brake band or do you suppose my O/D clutches are shot? Should I buy a master overhaul kit and replace the metals as well?

I do not want to mod this car, just fix it and sell it!

 

[transdude]

Originally posted by TyphoonZR
Hey John, I just purchased a 91 talon AWD turbo automatic and I know nothing of the history of this car. I bought knowing that the tranny was puking oil. I pulled the tranny, found the front pump bushing had moved forward and eaten the front seal, it actually came out with the converter. So I bought a new bushing, and installed a new seal and filter, drove it for 30 minutes and it would appear the problem has returned, it is starting to leak oil already and at first it was fine.

At about 3500 rpm I have a bad vibration which I believe is the cause for the bushing going. I also have no O/D, when I click the O/D button, it seems as if it hits neutral. Does O/D use the brake band or do you suppose my O/D clutches are shot? Should I buy a master overhaul kit and replace the metals as well?

I do not want to mod this car, just fix it and sell it!

I would take it back out, make sure the flexplate isn't bent and make sure the dowel pins are present. When the bushing walks forward, it usually spins in the pump, so perhaps the new bushing didn't have enough "crush" on the outside diameter, you may need an new pump. Also, this type of problem can be caused by lack of cooler flow and subsequent overheating. It also sounds as if there are other issues with the unit- no od, etc. It sounds as if a rebuild would be in order. By the way, in overdrive the band is applied as well as the od (end) clutches. Feel free to contact me if you need more information or advise- [email protected]
-John

 

[TyphoonZR]

You are the man! ahmm, I guess a case of beer to have you come over and take a peek, is out of the question? Ok, never mind responding to my dumb attempt at humor!

 

[transdude]

Originally posted by TyphoonZR
You are the man! ahmm, I guess a case of beer to have you come over and take a peek, is out of the question? Ok, never mind responding to my dumb attempt at humor!

B.C. is pretty far, but feel free to email me or call if you need help with this or need parts.
-John

 

[hose101772]

hey i built a 91 auto--14b and all the 5spd eletronics.anyway-future trans was able to get a kevlar 2nd band and end clutches.was like $130.turn up your line pressure-cant remember what i used like 2 turns past stock-on dsm up is out for line pressure.drill your shift timer dump hole to .030",quick shifts,held the power and hauled ass.it was nice----and cheap.

 

[TyphoonZR]

Update.... I pulled the tranny and tore it apart and found that the rear clutches were missing the big c-clip.. hehe! The metals were warped to the point that they looked like spring rings, at least half an inch distortion! I bought all new metals and frictions.

Trannydude, you had it bang on, it was the rear frictions(clutches)! The flex plate doesn’t seem bent and the dowel pins are in! I had the converter checked to see if it was within tolerance for balance, and it was! I also checked the timing belt as well as the balance shaft timing and belt. The pump bushing was still in place and I had no leaks after all.

How and where do you turn up your line pressure? And how do you determine where the shift timer dumb hole is. This is my first attempt at rebuilding any tranny at all. My next project is a 700 R 4.

I had my last 700 R 4 done by a shop, and it has lasted me 2 years. So I figure I will install the same parts and drill the same holes and have a go at it! My current tranny has withstood 800 hp.

 

[TyphoonZR]

Oh great, now I have no reverse and still no O/D!

 

[transdude]

Give me a shout, I can probably help.
-John

 

[TyphoonZR]

Thanks John, when you say give me a shout, do you mean as in phone call or as in an email, or a private messge?

I am going to yank this thing back out on Sunday, as for now, beer makes things smooth, no problem, I am glad the tranny don't work, I am a 'appy man, I want to pull this tranny for the third time, it is fun! I am learning how to pull trannies, this is educational, I have nothing better to do, it is all part of schooling! F*ck!

 

[transdude]

Originally posted by TyphoonZR
Thanks John, when you say give me a shout, do you mean as in phone call or as in an email, or a private messge?

I am going to yank this thing back out on Sunday, as for now, beer makes things smooth, no problem, I am glad the tranny don't work, I am a 'appy man, I want to pull this tranny for the third time, it is fun! I am learning how to pull trannies, this is educational, I have nothing better to do, it is all part of schooling! F*ck!

An email would be good - [email protected]
-John

 

[doug]

Many guys on the A/T DSM list and other places routinely praise the Alto Red Eagle Master Rebuild Kit. Some say it's pretty much the same as Level10's rebuild, at a fraction of the cost. Any insight? In addition to the normal shift kit/end clutch upgrades, I may be thinking about that Alto kit one day....

 

[SOURCE1064]

Originally posted by doug
Many guys on the A/T DSM list and other places routinely praise the Alto Red Eagle Master Rebuild Kit. Some say it's pretty much the same as Level10's rebuild, at a fraction of the cost. Any insight? In addition to the normal shift kit/end clutch upgrades, I may be thinking about that Alto kit one day....

I have the alto end clutch for sale if you want it. I just had my tranny rebuilt from level ten and I don't need it. I just want to break even. $75 shipped.

 

[TyphoonZR]

I am not giving up! I have installed a complete overhaul kit, a different used planitary, all new clutches and metals, and now I have reverse, but when I place it in drive, it comes to a halt within a few feet.

I think I must have installed the one way clutch, the wrong way! I installed it with the arrow facing up when I placed it into the planitary, facing the front of the tranny, towards the engine!

I thought that maybe the kickdown band was adjusted too tight, so I removed the cap and allowed the piston to walk out to the second retainer, and still no luck!

Oh well, I am getting really good at removing the tranny, I have it down to under an hour!

 

[solberg]

i love my automatic, i dont understand why everyone dogs on them. You all talk about your car breaking, mine has never. My 92 tsi awd A/T never broke and when i sold it, there was no oil in the tranny and it was still shifting smooth. My 96 is no different, the fun factor is down on auto's but traffic sucks where i have lived. I will never get rid of my auto, i may buy a 5spd 1g for a modder.

www.plymouthlaser.com for anyone who doesnt already know. great for both auto's and 5spd's

 

[loreak]

i used to have a 95 tsi awd a/t, they hold the power very well

buy an aftermarket tranny cooler, shift kit/end clutch, and use some good b&m fluid with a new filter and it should hold 300-350 no prob

mine would launch very hard, off the line at around 3200 with 17psi of boost, it put you in the seat just as hard as a hard launch in a 5psd

levelten knows what they are doing, they have been around for a while, i dont know much about the alto rebuild kit, everyone uses their shift kits though which are very good

 

[Stingray90]

Quick question fellas.
Does the overdrive ON/OFF light display with the key in the ON position ( not running)?
I ask because I have a 1990 n/t talon automatic I'm converting to a turbo using a '91 FWD turbo: Level Ten tranny, TCU, and the different sensor connectors needed. This was a JOB and a half for anyone doing the same. Anyway, with all the work Im doing, I've had the car sitting w/out a battery for months. Well today, I finished all the electrical work needed for the conversion. So I put the battery back in and put the key in the ON position ( cant crank it yet) and I see that POW/ECO illuminates and switches back and forth as it should when pressed, but the O/D doesn't light AT ALL. Just wondering if this is normal for the 1st Gen or does the car have to be running to see and switch the O/D display? Thanx!

 

[hose101772]

line pressure adjust if remember correctly is on the outbound side of the valve body-towards front.turning out is up on pressure.the dump hole is near front of valve body-bottom.

 

[Stingray90]

I figured it out!. It was the Overdrive ON/OFF switch. The contact for the overdrive OFF was not touching, keeping it in OD. And in OD you won't see nada in the dash. So if you ever find that yours is messed up look at the switch!

 

[Earley]

Just so yall know, theres a guy in oklahoma running a 1g with 498rwhp on a stock automatic. He's doing just fine with his tranny.

 

[TyphoonZR]

Originally posted by Earley
Just so yall know, theres a guy in oklahoma running a 1g with 498rwhp on a stock automatic. He's doing just fine with his tranny.

Maybe that is what I need, 500 hp, maybe then my tranny would work too, hehe!

My tranny woes continue! I have several problems which might well all be related. Mostly it is my O/D. Often it decides not to shift firmly into o/d and consequently slips under slight acceleration. This happens both in the POWER mode as well as the regular mode! If I then toggle between o/d off and o/d on, he usually will clear up after several tries. Once I have it shifting firmly, and if I drive gently, he usually stays good.

However, if I decide to boot it and kick it into passing gear, it will shift fine into third under full throttle and if I then let off the gas, o/d will elude me, it is as if I hit neutral. In addition to this, I will usually only be able to have third gear. Twice today it even stuck in third gear, even after I came to a full stop. I started off in third. I came to a full stop again, and cycled to neutral and park and back to drive, and it still started in third. So I came to a stop, shut off the engine and then tried again, and the demons had left it!

If the tranny is in it’s good mood, it will shift into o/d under full throttle at about 6000 rpm and do so firmly under full boost.

Again, once the tranny works well and if I drive around taking it easy, it works flawlessly. But if I decide to boot it, all hell breaks loose.

So I am wondering, can I go to a shop where they would be able to analyze this? Is it my tranny controller? And is the tranny controller within the main computer? Sorry about the length, but I don’t want to frustrate anyone who might try and help me!

I can buy a tranny core from the wreckers out of a 95 awd for 60 bucks, can I fix that one and will it interchange with slight mods? ie the electric speedo?

 

[doug]

Originally posted by TyphoonZR
Mostly it is my O/D. Often it decides not to shift firmly into o/d and consequently slips under slight acceleration. This happens both in the POWER mode as well as the regular mode! If I then toggle between o/d off and o/d on, he usually will clear up after several tries. Once I have it shifting firmly, and if I drive gently, he usually stays good.

...

So I am wondering, can I go to a shop where they would be able to analyze this? Is it my tranny controller? And is the tranny controller within the main computer? Sorry about the length, but I don’t want to frustrate anyone who might try and help me!

The O/D problem sounds a lot like you need new end clutches-- those things don't seem to be too reliable. It's a pretty common point of failure, actually. Fortunately, an end clutch upgrade is cheap and pretty easy to do yourself. The Alto kit is like $60-70 and there's a good VFAQ at www.plymouthlaser.com.

The tranny controller, also known as the TCU, is separate from the ECU, but I don't remember where it is physically.

 

[SOURCE1064]

Originally posted by Earley
Just so yall know, theres a guy in oklahoma running a 1g with 498rwhp on a stock automatic. He's doing just fine with his tranny.

I call big time bs on this. I belw my tranny with my 16G that's why I had it built it up for my current setup.

 

[jake98gst]

source, i noticed on your site you have the levelten shiftronic push button shifting...i am very interested in this...how does this work? where are the buttons?

also, how much is levelten doing to you tranny? are you gettin a completely new one or are you scrapping all the tranny mods on your site and sending your current tranny to them. and how much $$$?

thanks,
Jake 98 GS-T A/T

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

That Alto Master Rebuild Kit is $300.00. You can get a hold of Charles over at Plymouthlaser.com and send him an email to his Yahoo.com acct. I think he still has some to sell.