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Products the DSM crowd would like to see made

DreamChaser7

Supporting VIP
207
148
Jul 18, 2019
Valrico, Florida
know anyone my end of the world who can get me one for mocking up on the filler neck? i can add that chassis to my 1G and 2G list also


just a few more on the 1G to show fitment and use of all the mounting points still
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I’ll be getting one of these when ready for sure. Nice work!
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,576
2,870
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
I’ll be getting one of these when ready for sure. Nice work!
why thank you. i heard the 1G units are becoming an issue so i sorted a Canadian chap out with the proto type one for confirmation as at the time i did not have a 1G like i do now for checking fitment etc.

im just glad they will be great replacements and a unit never needing to be worried about again

Thanks for your support
 

bastarddsm

15+ Year Contributor
5,480
1,309
Aug 26, 2003
Mendota, Illinois
Heavy vs plastic sure but not 2k. Honda guys have them and they about $600 ish last time i looked
Do you own a machine capable of making a part like this? Do you make parts like this? I do. Right now my cost on a chunk to make it from is $500. $100 to pay for machine time does not get you very far.

Yall have to start being realistic about some of this stuff. A big part like this isn't just draw it and fusion and press go. There is fixturing and work holding to figure out. This is going to be thin, so work holding will suck, it's going to warp to shit while you cut it. It'll be a chatter monster since it's flimsy, so you will have to go really slow, and probably make a couple negatives of the part to hold it so it has some support.

Not only that it takes a minimum $50k investment to have the equipment to make parts like this. You are not doing it on a toy tormach in a basement. It requires a machine and infastructure. Tooling, holy f*** is that a bottomless pit of investment that's worth pennies when your shop closes. Did you all know that the price of electricty in illinois basically doubled this year? How do you think your electric bill would look running a 5hp compressor, a couple 3hp coolant pump motors, 10hp with of axis motors, and a 20hp spindle motor? It sucks. Oh don't forget A/C in the shop so your tooling doesn't rust. And then this is a machine tool, not a dsm, you don't go to vato zone and buy parts. You think something like GTR tax is bad, wait till you see machine tool tax. Oh your controls backup battery died? That'll be $75 for the coin cell battery, and $1000 for the software it lost. Oh well we only supply the software on a usb now, you'll need the $1500 usb port upgrade too. Hmm, gonna do some 3d surfacing running the spindle at 8000rpm all day long, mr spindle no likey. How about $20k to fix that.

Point is billet stuff is not cheap. A shop has to be able to bill $100/hr + for machine time or else they are not going to survive. And then cause the production numbers will be so low the design and tooling cost gets significant.

A quick example, my brake booster deletes are $100 shipped. After shipping and paypal I get about $85. For funsies I plugged one into xometry to see what I could get them made for. Made in china qty100 was $105 ea. USA made in a small batch like 25 was $350 ea. They take an honest 15min ea not going hard at all.
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,576
2,870
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Do you own a machine capable of making a part like this? Do you make parts like this? I do. Right now my cost on a chunk to make it from is $500. $100 to pay for machine time does not get you very far.

Yall have to start being realistic about some of this stuff. A big part like this isn't just draw it and fusion and press go. There is fixturing and work holding to figure out. This is going to be thin, so work holding will suck, it's going to warp to shit while you cut it. It'll be a chatter monster since it's flimsy, so you will have to go really slow, and probably make a couple negatives of the part to hold it so it has some support.

Not only that it takes a minimum $50k investment to have the equipment to make parts like this. You are not doing it on a toy tormach in a basement. It requires a machine and infastructure. Tooling, holy f*** is that a bottomless pit of investment that's worth pennies when your shop closes. Did you all know that the price of electricty in illinois basically doubled this year? How do you think your electric bill would look running a 5hp compressor, a couple 3hp coolant pump motors, 10hp with of axis motors, and a 20hp spindle motor? It sucks. Oh don't forget A/C in the shop so your tooling doesn't rust. And then this is a machine tool, not a dsm, you don't go to vato zone and buy parts. You think something like GTR tax is bad, wait till you see machine tool tax. Oh your controls backup battery died? That'll be $75 for the coin cell battery, and $1000 for the software it lost. Oh well we only supply the software on a usb now, you'll need the $1500 usb port upgrade too. Hmm, gonna do some 3d surfacing running the spindle at 8000rpm all day long, mr spindle no likey. How about $20k to fix that.

Point is billet stuff is not cheap. A shop has to be able to bill $100/hr + for machine time or else they are not going to survive. And then cause the production numbers will be so low the design and tooling cost gets significant.

A quick example, my brake booster deletes are $100 shipped. After shipping and paypal I get about $85. For funsies I plugged one into xometry to see what I could get them made for. Made in china qty100 was $105 ea. USA made in a small batch like 25 was $350 ea. They take an honest 15min ea not going hard at all.
I dont own a machine but have use of them for ALL my work i currently do and offer. Im no noobie to machines and time/costs. I do this alot for us for various jobs and products from steel to billet.

The honda guys can make it work so we can to! Your going to let honda guys beat us with that mind set and i wont stand for that LOL. We are going to be as good for parts.

I do what I can along with the others here. We also have dreams so we can try follow them as best as we can otherwise we might aswel give up now.
Realistic not always but damn i will try my best to make things work out
 

bastarddsm

15+ Year Contributor
5,480
1,309
Aug 26, 2003
Mendota, Illinois
. Im no noobie to machines and time/costs.
It kinda sounds like you are. There is no getting around $7 aluminum. I'm not really keen on the idea of working for free. If you find a place that will make billet timing covers for us that can be sold at $600 and make some profit you best buy them flowers and chocolate cause they are getting f***ed hard.
 

DreamChaser7

Supporting VIP
207
148
Jul 18, 2019
Valrico, Florida
why thank you. i heard the 1G units are becoming an issue so i sorted a Canadian chap out with the proto type one for confirmation as at the time i did not have a 1G like i do now for checking fitment etc.

im just glad they will be great replacements and a unit never needing to be worried about again

Thanks for your support
Is the 1G you’re testing fitment on AWD? Not sure if this matters..
 

NWHTanK

10+ Year Contributor
1,467
377
Apr 23, 2011
Odessa, Missouri
For us that delete the spare tire area . How about a washer bottle that would sit in between the quarter panel and trim panel , so as to use the factory fill option?

And for a race version, use it for meth injection. The cavities is large up in thier especially when considering the outer wheel house.
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,576
2,870
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Is the 1G you’re testing fitment on AWD? Not sure if this matters..
It was an AWD test vehicle

For us that delete the spare tire area . How about a washer bottle that would sit in between the quarter panel and trim panel , so as to use the factory fill option?

And for a race version, use it for meth injection. The cavities is large up in thier especially when considering the outer wheel house.
For that i used an off ths shelf 2 liter washer bottle, its compact and would fit in the location fine. Uses the same fill tube also. Its in my build thread somewhere around the spare wheel area delete
 

DSSA

Supporting Vendor
645
463
Jul 26, 2002
Hatfield, Pennsylvania
Well of course not but it does flex a little bit.
Not to mention that the AL units would be thicker, requiring *more* clearance (which isn't there).

I dont own a machine but have use of them for ALL my work i currently do and offer. Im no noobie to machines and time/costs. I do this alot for us for various jobs and products from steel to billet.

The honda guys can make it work so we can to! Your going to let honda guys beat us with that mind set and i wont stand for that LOL. We are going to be as good for parts.

I do what I can along with the others here. We also have dreams so we can try follow them as best as we can otherwise we might aswel give up now.
Realistic not always but damn i will try my best to make things work out
Bobby,

So why aren't your sub-frames £1400.00 like the Honda ones, instead of "£1,830.00 to £2,240.00"?

I've seen you often chime in on vendor's posts about where you can get things cheaper/easier, and this one comparing costs for Hondas vs. what people are saying that they would cost to make. It actually kinda surprises me after talking to you for so many years, and getting a different impression of you on the phone.

Different markets (units sold), different requirements, etc. I'm not sure where the disconnect is..

The biggest issue in this thread over the past decade are so is the issue between "what people want" vs. "what people are willing to pay for an item, and what it actually takes to make said part AND make it worth someone's time to make it.". We're at page 59 of something that started going on 15 years ago since Chris started it, and there's about a 1% actual return rate on suggested parts being made. There's a good reason for this, and if you look back through the beginning, I called this WAY back there.
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,576
2,870
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Not to mention that the AL units would be thicker, requiring *more* clearance (which isn't there).


Bobby,

So why aren't your sub-frames £1400.00 like the Honda ones, instead of "£1,830.00 to £2,240.00"?

I've seen you often chime in on vendor's posts about where you can get things cheaper/easier, and this one comparing costs for Hondas vs. what people are saying that they would cost to make. It actually kinda surprises me after talking to you for so many years, and getting a different impression of you on the phone.

Different markets (units sold), different requirements, etc. I'm not sure where the disconnect is..

The biggest issue in this thread over the past decade are so is the issue between "what people want" vs. "what people are willing to pay for an item, and what it actually takes to make said part AND make it worth someone's time to make it.". We're at page 59 of something that started going on 15 years ago since Chris started it, and there's about a 1% actual return rate on suggested parts being made. There's a good reason for this, and if you look back through the beginning, I called this WAY back there.
Honda subframes are a tad more simple then a DSM subframe. They have loads of room to make it work. Take the EP3 for instance as they bolt from underneath and have good amounts of space. Thats an easy build thus alot less time to design and make each one.

The DSM is far more complex and tight and requires more time to make each one. Development was a long one to get this spot on for everything. Plus shipping from me for something of this size is costly. Its not so much the weight as thats not the problem but its the size of the shipping box. It bumps it up a good amount. So shipoing for me is the only disadvantage i have from this all.

Also with my frames I give more adjustment and as much features as one can give without charging for those, they are already there for the users. CNC vs fabricating time differs. So while a CNC once drawn can just pull up the codes and set the machine and most of the time leave it and work on another job also and rotate thats not possible with the frames which are 1 at a time and take a few days to complete.

Going to the covers again, they wont flex and would be a fraction thicker but not alot. Even if they were cast it would be thin enough still and thats an option i would consider for metal covers. Most on cars nowadays are chains so they opt for metal. The design for the cover is fsirly simplistic over all. The cost will be blocks sure but the rates the machine can run is fairly fast and the overall design as i said is not that intricate so should certainly be considerable.
I got my covers off currently so i can clean mine up and scan them and see what i can adjust in CAD and go from that.

I do try my best on prices i know its not always possible but i do what I can.

I have a few points from this thread i have looked into and have some ideas im working on, OEM parts also to I might add. So im trying to do more then make aftermarket but keep these cars going well. For that it takes time and money and im using what spare cash i have from my full time job and developing parts. Its not easy vs a huge company but i also dont see huge companys stepping in or up either that are in the groups or even around us so its left to little guys so we also wish to make money to but as a DSMer its more passion then making loads and it just takes longer thats all.
 

bastarddsm

15+ Year Contributor
5,480
1,309
Aug 26, 2003
Mendota, Illinois
Also with my frames I give more adjustment and as much features as one can give without charging for those, they are already there for the users. CNC vs fabricating time differs. So while a CNC once drawn can just pull up the codes and set the machine and most of the time leave it and work on another job also and rotate thats not possible with the frames which are 1 at a time and take a few days to complete.
Clearly you don't really know anything about what you are talking about. I'll start with fabrication requires a very minimal investment. You can begin steel fabrications with a cheap tig and angle grinder from harbor fright for less than $500. Yeah it's shit, but guys out there are doing nicer work than you with that minimal equipment. To start running a cnc shop is AT MINIMUM 20k investment for anything more than a desktop size machine. Every part of it is far more expensive. A year on a decent cam package cost more than an average DSM, and then tooling, coolant, way oil, compressed air, scrapped parts.... I could go on and on. So yeah, once the parts programed a large part of the time investment is done, but the machine time itself still demands a higher billing rate.
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,576
2,870
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Clearly you don't really know anything about what you are talking about. I'll start with fabrication requires a very minimal investment. You can begin steel fabrications with a cheap tig and angle grinder from harbor fright for less than $500. Yeah it's shit, but guys out there are doing nicer work than you with that minimal equipment. To start running a cnc shop is AT MINIMUM 20k investment for anything more than a desktop size machine. Every part of it is far more expensive. A year on a decent cam package cost more than an average DSM, and then tooling, coolant, way oil, compressed air, scrapped parts.... I could go on and on. So yeah, once the parts programed a large part of the time investment is done, but the machine time itself still demands a higher billing rate.
Oh so now your wanting to throw down insults now! Wow nice one.

Well if thats the case then anyone can push buttons right! Lol

Anyway. Yes people can try to fabricate but its not just that simple neither is cnc machining but both have to learn the skill. I see everyone offering parts for our cars like a common thing and its SOOOO easy you say.

I chat to the CNC shop very often so im always learning and understanding. We work together well and i would love to eventually buy or rent a machine but once i get my own place of course.
 

bastarddsm

15+ Year Contributor
5,480
1,309
Aug 26, 2003
Mendota, Illinois
I didn't throw any insults, buddy. And yes, ANYONE can be a cnc operator. Not everyone can be a cnc shop owner, programmer, setup guy, ect. Simply the logistics of it. You can fabricate almost anything dsm related in a 1 car garage in a neighborhood, and for the most part off a single 20a 110v circuit too, Show up to that neighborhood with a rigging crew moving a baby haas in and see how well that goes.

Like I said before, hang your shingle up, buy a f***in machine, make chips, AND THEN YOU CAN TRY TO TELL ME HOW TO PRICE MY PARTS.
 

19Eclipse90

DSM Wiseman
5,277
1,144
Sep 29, 2003
OKC, Oklahoma
Let's stay on topic, yes?

This thread is about parts we'd like to see. It's not an area for discussion of feasibility and/or pricing. I think those two topics are completely up to the manufacturer if they have any interest whatsoever in any of the ideas posted in this thread.
 

Spleen8urLSX

Proven Member
268
173
Dec 26, 2017
Elyria, Ohio
I didn't throw any insults, buddy. And yes, ANYONE can be a cnc operator. Not everyone can be a cnc shop owner, programmer, setup guy, ect. Simply the logistics of it. You can fabricate almost anything dsm related in a 1 car garage in a neighborhood, and for the most part off a single 20a 110v circuit too, Show up to that neighborhood with a rigging crew moving a baby haas in and see how well that goes.

Like I said before, hang your shingle up, buy a f***in machine, make chips, AND THEN YOU CAN TRY TO TELL ME HOW TO PRICE MY PARTS.
I mean this in no disrespect or disagreement with anyone, but I’ve seen the bill to have Haas just come to our shop and tell us what’s wrong with a mill or lathe, not even touch it, just see what it’s doing and say what’s wrong, and yes that alone costs more than most of our dsm’s on here. As someone who drags their ass outta bed every day to go “push the button” I’ll attest machining of any sort, especially on American soil, is of the pricey flavor. Hell even with contracts and mass production runs we bill Phillips Medical an ass ton just to water jet simple shape parts out of copper, and then you get into the mill and lathe work and it gets real wild. And that’s copper, simple forgiving material, billet not so much, that’s high roller stuff price wise and not forgiving. Not saying to not chase goals and dreams but as someone who lives it, machining of any sort is a process the cost is always misunderstood on as someone who lives it.
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,576
2,870
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
I didn't throw any insults, buddy. And yes, ANYONE can be a cnc operator. Not everyone can be a cnc shop owner, programmer, setup guy, ect. Simply the logistics of it. You can fabricate almost anything dsm related in a 1 car garage in a neighborhood, and for the most part off a single 20a 110v circuit too, Show up to that neighborhood with a rigging crew moving a baby haas in and see how well that goes.

Like I said before, hang your shingle up, buy a f***in machine, make chips, AND THEN YOU CAN TRY TO TELL ME HOW TO PRICE MY PARTS.
So the guys out there doing nicer Shit the you was not an insult! Sure ok then.

I also never said how to price YOUR parts, i dont care what you chsrge for your parts as they are YOUR parts. I mearly made a comment that based on how simple the covers are it should be doable, i did not consider any profits in that. Places always charge different and make different profits so you vs another shop will always moan about esch other! Heck i know this first hand as everyone i speak to does exactly the same thing.

When the time comes i will be looking into a machine but not right now. I dont have my shop yet and im still busy working on orders and other projects that require CNC machined parts.
Im also fully aware of the task to get one in and running etc, chap on our estate had his bed go bad and cost him 70k to fix it.

I mean this in no disrespect or disagreement with anyone, but I’ve seen the bill to have Haas just come to our shop and tell us what’s wrong with a mill or lathe, not even touch it, just see what it’s doing and say what’s wrong, and yes that alone costs more than most of our dsm’s on here. As someone who drags their ass outta bed every day to go “push the button” I’ll attest machining of any sort, especially on American soil, is of the pricey flavor. Hell even with contracts and mass production runs we bill Phillips Medical an ass ton just to water jet simple shape parts out of copper, and then you get into the mill and lathe work and it gets real wild. And that’s copper, simple forgiving material, billet not so much, that’s high roller stuff price wise and not forgiving. Not saying to not chase goals and dreams but as someone who lives it, machining of any sort is a process the cost is always misunderstood on as someone who lives it.
Dont take my button pushing comment badly it was just a comeback to his comment LOL i know its not just button pressing, i watch the programmers and CNC chaps alot

Let's stay on topic, yes?

This thread is about parts we'd like to see. It's not an area for discussion of feasibility and/or pricing. I think those two topics are completely up to the manufacturer if they have any interest whatsoever in any of the ideas posted in this thread.
I can do that, i dont even know why it got so far off topic really.
 
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