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2G Possibly a new fuel pump

saulofaria

Probationary Member
22
6
Jul 13, 2021
BEACONSFIELD, QC_Canada
Hello everyone!

Apparently my Eclipse 1997 GS-T is in need of a new fuel pump. The car struggles to start, dies after a few cranks, and don't start after. Once the car sits for a few hours, it starts normally but it will fail to start again after or struggle as initially said which makes sense to me that the fuel pump is not sending fuel properly or with low pressure.

I have been looking at options and I see that a Walbro gca3314-2 would be the best option. Is it worth to go to that option considering that the car is stock and I am not planning to go with power mods? Or would any off shelf pump (specific for my model and maker) from my local car parts would be ok?

Thx
 
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1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
9,445
5,280
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
Most of the fuel pumps we use are Walbro (or TI Industries). For a stock setup, a Walbro 255 is more than enough and shouldn't overrun the factory fuel regulator. If you honestly don't think you will do any boost or power mods, then a Walbro 190 is fine as a replacement.
Whatever you decide, DO NOT BUY IT FROM EBAY OR AMAZON, look at our vendors at the bottom and deal thru them as there is a very high counterfeit rate of those pumps that might not make you very happy if they were from China and failed in the first week or so. JNZ, ExtremePSI, STM, RTM all handle good pumps and I can feel confident recommending them.
EDIT: I see you are a Canadian member and RTM is in your home country, look at THIS page from there lineup.
 

saulofaria

Probationary Member
22
6
Jul 13, 2021
BEACONSFIELD, QC_Canada
Thanks a lot for the feedback @1990TSIAWDTALON .
I got this car which has been through several owners and I see parts that were replaced with Amazon items. I was told that the fuel system was done by the previous owner and I wouldn't be surprised if he choose a cheap model from Amazon. I will certainly go on RTM website and see their options.
Thanks
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
9,445
5,280
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
Welcome anytime!!!
 

lasershark

Proven Member
1,606
235
May 17, 2013
over yander, Idaho
Does your car cold start every time? just troubles with warm/hot starts? If you modulate the throttle for hot starts will it start and then stay running/idle after 30sec-60sec of throttle modulation?
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
9,445
5,280
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
My car starts without me being even in the drivers seat. It is all in the tune. I start it when its cold and go inside, no having to sit in the car. Summer, same thing. I start it (like last night, I had 2 of my DSMs running at the same time so they don't have a dead battery) and walk away, it starts up at around 11.2 AFR and gradually moves up to stoich (14.7).
 

saulofaria

Probationary Member
22
6
Jul 13, 2021
BEACONSFIELD, QC_Canada
Mine starts on the first start with no issue. Operates for as long as I keep the car running.
The next start, immediately after the car will struggle to get full pressure and misfire. With a few cranks it will eventually stall. If I throttle, it dies faster once it revs up (as it has consumed the gas avaiable). It will repeat this one or two more times. Then just dry crancks.
Once the car is cold again, it will start as the initial start with no issue.
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
9,445
5,280
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
Ok, I went thru a similar issue and thought it was a fuel delivery issue (pressure going down) and after A YEAR OF FIGHTING WITH IT, it turned out to be a fuel SUPPLY issue. My tank had some funky stuff in it and when it got onto the fuel pump sock, it would suck the sock closed and could not PICK UP fuel to deliver. I had to clean my fuel pump sock and took my tank out and cleaned it with DAWN dish soap and the problem has went away.
If you have tried everything, pull the pump and clean the sock and see if the issue persists.
 

saulofaria

Probationary Member
22
6
Jul 13, 2021
BEACONSFIELD, QC_Canada
I have now ordered a new fuel pump and filter. Once I pull the pump out of the car I will inspect the tank. Thanks for the info
 

saulofaria

Probationary Member
22
6
Jul 13, 2021
BEACONSFIELD, QC_Canada
So, I have finally had time to work on the pump replacement after a few issues on getting things release from the original mount.
Well, the old pump had a fuel tube replacing what should be the pump hardware and was looking certainly in bad shape, it was a Denso pump.
Now, my issue is, the send unit has the 14" nut soldered to the unit, it can't be use to tight the line back in place. When removing the fuel line to the send unit I had to continue twisting until the line disonnected. For certain doing the inverse is not so simple as there was a lot of tension when twisting the fuel line to take it out. Even attempting to tight as is the line immediately get twisted and won't work that way.
What is the suggestion from here?

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saulofaria

Probationary Member
22
6
Jul 13, 2021
BEACONSFIELD, QC_Canada
My second problem is that I can't replace the fuel filter.
As you can see on the video the nut is completely rounded. What is your suggestion?
Thanks
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saulofaria

Probationary Member
22
6
Jul 13, 2021
BEACONSFIELD, QC_Canada
Well, The new pump is on. There was a pinhole that I may have caused on the neck of the sending unit and had to JBWeld the shit of out it. It solve that side issue.
Although the main issue of the car not starting after getting up to temperature persists. I have notice that some have claimed that being an issue with the Coolant Temperature Sensor. So looking at the connector it does kind trigger my curiosity if that was the culprit all along. I will remove it once I have time during this week and test with a multimeter as this video shows:
Hopefully that can solve my issue.

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EclipseOfTheHeart97

Probationary Member
14
5
May 22, 2022
Santa Clarita - Los Angeles, California

@saulofaria


Might be a bit late since you seemed to have found an issue with the engine coolant temp sensor, but here's my story:

My 97 GST fuel tank had fuel from 2010 and had ruined the tank and the pump. I recently drained the tank, and when the remaining fuel dried up, there was this layer of what looked like obsidian and rust. Shiny black hydro-carbons. This is the shit clogging the system and causing fuel system issues.
Prior to the draining the tank i had gone through two pumps and was having the same issues you are. Getting the nasty shit out of the tank and fuel system is crucial.
After contemplating getting the tank washed out and working with the old parts , I decided to replace the fuel tank, fuel pump hanger complete (Delphi 12219FH) and built a new high pressure fuel line from the pump to the hard line with -6AN fittings and ptfe line. The Delphi 12219FH fuel pump assembly although from EBAY, should be fine as far as longevity goes. If you're on the stock path, get the EBAY/AMAZON Delphi Hanger and if you're worried about the cheap china pump, put a quality pump into the assembly before you install in the tank.
You may want to follow the same path (new tank, pump hanger, and pump to hardline hose), and probably run new fuel line all the way to and past the filter to correct the flare fitting issues. And if you're up to it, relocate the fuel filter while you're at it so you can change it without the hassle of removing the battery.
IM me and i'll send you links to the AN package i bought if you're interested. There's a few posts here on how to replace the fuel lines from the tank to the engine bay, and back to the tank if you're thinking of going that route.
 

saulofaria

Probationary Member
22
6
Jul 13, 2021
BEACONSFIELD, QC_Canada
Hello @EclipseOfTheHeart97 , thanks for the feedback, Yes. Please send those details. I feel that I will end up doing a whole clean replacement as the fuel filter is not replaceable at this time with the stripped bolt.
The tank seems to be a replacement already and when I took the filter out I could see it was very clean inside.
 

EclipseOfTheHeart97

Probationary Member
14
5
May 22, 2022
Santa Clarita - Los Angeles, California

@saulofaria,​

  1. On the"zon" (EVIL ENERGY 6AN PTFE Fuel Line Kit,E85 Stainless Steel Braided Fuel Hose 20FT(5/16Inch ID) ....I used this kit to make a new pump to hardline hose. Make sure you GTS how to cut the hose with a grinder. (google that shit). Kit should be enough to run new to and past the fuel filter as needed. Order length/color accordingly.​

  2. Since you don't need the tank (i noticed your Phillips head screws half way into my previous post) you should be good. I ordered a JC Whitney tank from car parts dot comm. I then sprayed the tank with rhino liner-ish rubberized to protect from rock chips. Similar to factory under-body spray. The paint on the replacement tank is super brittle.​

  3. Car parts dot - has new front windshield seals to for cheap. Not the $120 i've seen at the perf shops.​

I'm not endorsing any of these leads for parts, but so far so good.​


Still need a lead on a sunroof seal and a hatch window seal. I'm gearing up to paint my girl.




 

saulofaria

Probationary Member
22
6
Jul 13, 2021
BEACONSFIELD, QC_Canada
Well, I am confused and disapointed at this stage.

Although I have replaced the Coolant Sensor, it won't run when warm. Right after I replaced the TCS the can run for the time I let run until getting to the right temperature. It started after when the car was already at temperature (For a moment I thought all was resolved), but a few minutes after I try again and no more start. I have no other idea or seen what else could be the issue.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMRLFr-uO6Y
I have also attempted what was on this thread (https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/wont-start-when-warm.346498) with bypassing the Fuel Pressure Solenoid and also to connect directly to a second Coolant Sensor while outside of the housing to read the engine temparature instead of the coolant temperature.

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Aside that I notice that this cable had 2 wires snipped, not sure what this one is for ..... (I know is not related to the issue at hand)

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luv2rallye

DSM Wiseman
8,338
1,120
Jun 7, 2003
Minneapolis, Minnesota
Are you sure you did the Fuel Pressure Solenoid hot start investigation properly? Here's another take on it: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/vapor-lock-hot-start.217349/#post-1821514. And why do you have it unplugged?

Your bottom picture is the EGR solenoid valve.

Now, my issue is, the send unit has the 14" nut soldered to the unit, it can't be use to tight the line back in place. When removing the fuel line to the send unit I had to continue twisting until the line disonnected. For certain doing the inverse is not so simple as there was a lot of tension when twisting the fuel line to take it out. Even attempting to tight as is the line immediately get twisted and won't work that way.
What is the suggestion from here?

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I know you now have the pump on but in the future, instead of unscrewing that nut on the pump fuel line tube above (which sometimes is soldered on) and can easily damage/break the tube, disconnect the other end of that hose (under the car) and just leave the hose connected to the pump. I had this problem and that's what I did. It takes a little effort undoing that rusty connection but with PB Blaster and working it back and forth long enough with flare nut wrenches (I had to use a pipe wrench on one side) and keeping things braced, it will disconnect.
 

saulofaria

Probationary Member
22
6
Jul 13, 2021
BEACONSFIELD, QC_Canada
A progress today! Worray!!!! but not out of the woods just yet ;)

@luv2rallye , on the picture you saw it disconnected as I notice it required a little sanding on the connectors, it was very flacky and green I was afraid that it wasn't switching on/off due to bad contact.
As you I was curious if I indeed test correctly as you said, I wanted to spend more time trying different ways.
So, as the car would certainly start when cold I've start the car and let warm until running temp. All good there.
So I start my test with the vacuum lines.
The line from the Manifold has vacuum at start and hot temp.
The line from the fuel rails does not have a vacuum on cold or hot start.

Now I kept the the line from the manifold on (which has vacuum) from the solenoid on the hot start, the car clearly asked for more crancks than before but it does start. Although the solenoid seems to do not switch off at all. With the car running after warm up and only the line of the manifold connected I can yet feel the vacuum at the end where the rail line should have been connected.
So I did drive the car for 20 min aprox to help recharge the battery and see how it would behave. Now at 3-4k rpm the car struggles, like there is no not enough fuel. Would the vacuum from the rail line trigger only when there is demand of more pressure (at high rpm)?
Does it seems to all of you that is the issue now? The FPS not switching off after the car is warm?

Thanks for all the comments here so far!

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saulofaria

Probationary Member
22
6
Jul 13, 2021
BEACONSFIELD, QC_Canada
After many attempts to solve the problem I got to the bottom of it.
It was all along the fuel pressure regulator.
I order a replacement from rockauto and now the car starts again.
Although now I have to see why there is a rough start. it takes about 10 sec to get started.
Also the BOV is blown. Need to replace that too.
 

Shimmer

Probationary Member
19
10
Jul 31, 2008
Vancouver, BC_Canada
Did you get an aftermarket adjustable fuel pressure regulator? I don't know what the explanation is but I seem to recall reading that using an AFPR can add a few extra seconds when trying to get the car started.
 
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