Please save us. Anyone help!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[91_GSTBaby]

I don't want to take up all your guys' time but I am OUT of ideas.

Please if ANYONE can help me with this I would be in DEBT to you!

Heres the story:

I purchased a 1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS-T with 86k on the clock. Red in color, she is definatly pretty. A/T Transmission, and a clean engine bay.

I took the car over to my parents house to show them after I purchased it, and the battery died. I put the jumper cables on to jump start it and like a total idiot I put the jumper cables on BACKWARDS.
After I saw the huge sparking at the battery terminals I quickly switched them to proper polarity and began to attempt starting it. The car just wouldnt start. Turning over and turning over it chugged and wouldnt fire. Eventually after a few attempts it FINALLY started. Running as if it were on 2 cylinders, it wasn't revving and had 0 power whatsoever. Ashamed of my stupidity I pushed the car in the drive way where it has sat for over 2 weeks of my trouble shooting.


Talked to a couple dsm guys online and did some thread re-search and found that I most likley fried my ECU, TCU, and possibly the wiring harness.
After I pulled my ECU, I took a look at the board and saw a white smokey patch about 2" on the board. NO fish smell though, just the smokey patch.

Talking to Lenin (Bigred16G), he told me that I might as well go DSM LINK and upgrade to my faults. So I bought his EPROM ECU, DSM Link V2.5, his 450 CC Injectors ETC all for a great deal. (He's cool.)

So I got the package, installed the ECU, downloaded V3 of the software (which is confirmed that it works with V2.5), fully connected beautifully, and set all of the DSM link settings to stock (since its a bone stock DSM.)

After everything was good to go, I jumpered the dead battery, and couldn't get it to start up. Turning over as if its out of gas, I could NOT get it to fire. Just over and over.

Talked to some more buddies, they said to check fuses, so I did. Went out and bought 14$ worth of fuses and replaced ones that didnt need to be. Checked spark plugs for spark, DSM Link can click the fuel pump on no problem, and i am getting fuel to the plugs. THere slightly damp, and smell like gas after short attempts to start.

So with spark, fuel, and fuses all good, I figured DSM link was incorrect with the MAF compensation tab.

Posted a log of my attempt to start the car, and Tom Dorris @ ECM Link said there is no reason what so ever for the car not to start. The settings are all good to go.

Still no joy, I start hearing people reccomend the CAS being the problem. So I volt meter the plug wire harness side of the CAS and get back 13V, and 4.9V from the plug. (Manual States this is perfect.)

Check the CAS PINS themselves with the meter for resistance and I only get readings for about an 1/8th of a second. They will not stay on the meter screen so I don't know if that means my CAS is bad or not. I was really trying to avoid pulling the CAS loose so I can test to see if the fuel injectors are clicking because I do not have a readily available timing gun. If the CAS is what you guys all say, then I'll buy one, and get a timing gun.

After checking the CAS, I checked the CTS Coolant Temp Switch wires (green wires) coming off the thermostat housing to be torn (this too would stop the starting). Those wires are good as well.

My next Idea from a buddy was to put the stock 450CC ECU Chip in the EPROM slot instead of DSM Link, and try that. So I swapped chips, and now I have a constant check engine light with the old chip in place, but the engine now wants to start more then ever. Chugging, and ALMOST firing up it seems with the old EPROM chip in place it wants to start a LITTLE more then with dsm link. Just a TINY bit more.

So thats where I am. I hope I didnt post anything that has already been discussed, but I highly doubt my situation is on these forums.

- Fuel is getting to the plugs
- The spark plugs are sparking perfectly
- The CTS Wires are good
- The CAS Plug is delivering perfect readings
- Clean air filter, oil, oil filter, injectors, ETC
- Fuel Pump is activating
- ALL Headlights, taillights, dash lights, fuse box lights, fuses EVERYTHING works.


All I can think of is two things:

-CAS itself is bad and is throwing the ignition timing off causing it to not start/run terrible

-390CC Injectors @ 43.5 PSI with an ECU that is compensating for 450CC @ 37 PSI is causing it to be too rich, bog and fail to start. (Even though DSM Link people say that it should still start with the MAF Comp tabs at 0%, or +6% to compensate for the fuel.)

Intake temps, coolant temps, 02, MAF readings are all right on with Link.


Please anyone, from the DSM gods above PLEASE someone help us. She's in need guys, badly.


Also, the BOV was vented from the ricer guy before he sold it to me. So I bought some hose and vented it properly.


Again thank you ALL for ALL your help. This is no longer a DSM LINK Related topic so I'm bringing my problem to you.


Thanks SO MUCH!

Josh

 

[tunethis]

I know you said you are taking the battery to Autozone but, take the alternator too, it could be shot.

 

[mydsm1992]

I've never checked the temperature of my ALT fuse when starting the car. It might get hot on any car since you're flowing all that current through the system. Can't say one way or another. My 1G GSX didn't run at all when the alternator crapped out. The dash lights came on and it stumbled to a stop. You may have just blasted the alternator.

Be sure when you check those grounds you check for continuity not just visual. You should be able to find someone close to help. I sent a PM.

my car when i got it the had a bad ground could not find it it was the wire to the alt to the batt. keeping it charged so ill go down the fine and dandy then no power windows then no heater fan so i put a wire from the alt. to the battery solved problem yall saying stupid no i put a fusible link in it so itll blow before nething happens so check ## battery to be sure use one out ## truck hope that helps a little bit.

 

[91_GSTBaby]

Ok, battery was tested and came back that it was shot. Bought a new battery for it, hooked it up, and nothing. I tried starting in neutral didnt do anything.

I am gonna test my MPI relay next.

 

[beniger]

my car didn't start until i rewired the grounds

 

[motomattxxx]

You might have damaged the ignition module also...I'm still thinking that you have an ecu problem, since the ecu's backup voltage would have been active during the reversal, and then you plugged the eprom in backwards. I would leave that ecu out of the equation and use a borrowed one until you get it started for sure.

 

[Gamble97]

this is some strange ass issue. Can you check your piping to make sure you don't have some massive boost leak that is just making it dump fuel into it. I really doubt it's the issue but just a thought.
Did you post this on the dsmlink forum?

 

[t25fury]

beniger may have a point,there is a non-replaceable fusible link built into one of the wires that run from the alternator to the fuse box,this can blow from a reverse charge,you can replace these with 10 gage wire,other things that may have damaged are the coils.

 

[91_GSTBaby]

Ok, I just followed the directions on this thread:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/263224-mfi-mpi-relay.html

Applied 12V to my MPI, and my contacts would not close as they should under a 12V load. I tested my wires with a meter and was getting 12.3V constantly from my new battery. Tried every possibly connection and the contacts wouldn't move. I believe that signifys a BAD MPI am I wrong??

I tried cleaning my intercooler right before I brought the car over here, put it back in place nice and good, and didn't have any problems with it running after that. I can go check and see if anything came off...

UPDATE: Ok just checked UICP, and the intercooler where all snug and good.

I originally posted this on DSM Link, but after I got fully connected I stopped posting the technical questions on link.

ALSO:

After putting my new CAS on a couple days ago, I just tested it by rotating it in place, and with a screw driver to my ear again could not hear the injectors clicking. Some say injector resistor pack others say MPI. I tested my MPI, and cannot get my contacts to close under a 12V load. Is there a way to test the Injector resistor pack? What is causing my injectors not to fire when the CAS is rotated? Its not the CAS, both the new and the old one did the same thing. Can someone piece all this together? How can I be getting excess fuel on my plugs if my injectors arent firing properly anyways? I am so confused. Seriously guys, call me a wimp but I am near tears here. This is just ridiculous. I have drained my girlfriend, my parents, my bank, all your guys help and time and all because mitsubishi failed to put a fail-safe diode on our EFI cars?

 

[4G63_Attack]

Sounds like you might need a new MPI

 

[motomattxxx]

Ok, I just followed the directions on this thread:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/263224-mfi-mpi-relay.html

Applied 12V to my MPI, and my contacts would not close as they should under a 12V load. I tested my wires with a meter and was getting 12.3V constantly from my new battery. Tried every possibly connection and the contacts wouldn't move. I believe that signifys a BAD MPI am I wrong??

I tried cleaning my intercooler right before I brought the car over here, put it back in place nice and good, and didn't have any problems with it running after that. I can go check and see if anything came off...

UPDATE: Ok just checked UICP, and the intercooler where all snug and good.

I originally posted this on DSM Link, but after I got fully connected I stopped posting the technical questions on link.

ALSO:

After putting my new CAS on a couple days ago, I just tested it by rotating it in place, and with a screw driver to my ear again could not hear the injectors clicking. Some say injector resistor pack others say MPI. I tested my MPI, and cannot get my contacts to close under a 12V load. Is there a way to test the Injector resistor pack? What is causing my injectors not to fire when the CAS is rotated? Its not the CAS, both the new and the old one did the same thing. Can someone piece all this together? How can I be getting excess fuel on my plugs if my injectors arent firing properly anyways? I am so confused. Seriously guys, call me a wimp but I am near tears here. This is just ridiculous. I have drained my girlfriend, my parents, my bank, all your guys help and time and all because mitsubishi failed to put a fail-safe diode on our EFI cars?

You cant blame this on Mitsubishi! they would have had to put a 300-500 amp diode in the battery cable to prevent this...cant happen, you do the same thing to a 2010 model and you will do damage no matter who makes the car, truck, motorcycle, atv, etc. If you would have bought a new battery when it was bad you would'nt have been jumping the car and this would'nt have happened. That being said, I still have to say that you have a ecu/ignition module problem, swap them with KNOWN good parts that work on other cars and go from there because you could have several damaged ecu's. Is your fuel pump running? maybe CAREFULLY pull the line and drop it into a gallon jug and then turn the key on for a second to see for a fact that you are getting fuel from the pump to eliminate that, I suggest keeping water/hose etc around just incase you are'nt careful enough though, better yet would be to check fuel pressure, but it sounds like you dont have acess to alot of test equipment, if the fuel pump is not putting out you can run a positive wire to the test lead on the firewall on the passenger side to try to power it manually.

Another question is: is your check engine light coming on when you turn your key on and then going out after a few seconds? does your tach needle move during cranking?

 

[mko]

yeah, testing resistor pack is easy . There should be one thick red wire and four black wires. Set the multimeter to Ohms and measure between the red wire and each black wire. it should say some like 10 Ohms for all four times

Also, make sure the mpi relay gets ground

 

[blackrosenova40]

I think its just so flooded hes not gonna be able to start it!

Do this, will be really quick, unplug your fuel pump in the trunk. Go into your car, hold the throttle completely open and turn it over multiple times, it will fire eventually, I can gaurantee it as long as you are geting spark. This is too burn out the fuel that is flooding it.

After that plug your pump back in and see how it runs.

 

[91_GSTBaby]

Ok guys, I will test my injector resistor pack. I will also re-test the MPI again assuring I have a good ground to it.

If I can't get the MPI to work.. and/or my injector resistor pack is bad I will replace them.

But I have a good feeling about blackrosenova40's comment about it being flooded so bad it won't fire. Everytime I put the plugs back in they get drenched. I will disconnect my fuel pump and try to get it to fire that way as well. If none of those fix it, I will test the fuel pump itself and make sure it is turning on properly.

I will also run a wet/dry compression test.

Please keep in touch.

Thanks everyone.

 

[blackrosenova40]

Your cas triggers the ecu to tell the fuel pump relay to turn on. If your injectors are drenched, the fuel pump is fine.

As far as the resistor pack goes, there is only a slight chance it could be your problem. Only two scenarios could happen with the resistor pack.

A-Its shorted causing more load on your ecu, which means the ecu is fried. This is where your slight chance comes in as I dont know what this would cause your ecu to do. Maybe hold your injectors open way too much? I would say they wouldnt fire at all, so like I say, is a slim chance.

B- Its blown open and you would not recieve any fuel, which we obviously know isnt happening.

If you have good enough compression to run, as it did before, your plug wires are correct, timing wasnt altered, fuel presure is good, your getting spark, then really your only probelms could be are injectors staying open too long for whatever reason, maybe there bad, or your fuel pressure is too high.

If I was you I would try what I said with the fuel pump. If that doesnt work, put everything stock back into your car, including injectors and your stock chip instead of the Dsmlink until this issue is resolved.

Btw check your oil, smell horribly like fuel?

 

[GUTSI]

Hey man....just popped back into this post to see what your progress has been.
So you bought a new battery (old one was shot...no surprise) Also, you've tested the MPI relay, but with questionable results?
I found these 2 threads here that I hope might bring you closer to a solution....
....that is, unless you've already read them

Pay close attention to post #25 (contains specific info on testing the MPI relay)
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/237220-dead-ecu-no-check-engine-light-when-key.html

I have a feeling you've read this one......but just in case you haven't:
(Also, are the plugs still getting soaked with fuel? If so, pay close attention to the heading Testing the Coolant Temperature Sensor on 1G
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/217951-how-diagnose-no-start.html#post1825130

By the way, just wondering if you unplugged the alternator, did your fuse stop "melting" ?
I know that a bad MAF can cause a "hard start"....and in some instances, even a no start. I have instructions on testing the MAF but it's 2G specific (I'll chk my other car, it's a 91, to verify if it's also an 8 pin. If so, i'll post testing instructions)
Just thought I'd throw this out there, but when you replaced the CAS, did you mount it exactly the same way i.e they can be mounted back on, but 180* backwards

You have spark, fuel, you haven't done compression yet (although now I wouldn't suspect it since you mentioned the car drove perfectly fine right before the incident). And IF the CAS tested fine, AND is mounted right, you also have timing.

Hmmm.....

Looks like something definately got shorted then.
Try starting the car with unplugged MAF and ECT....

....just a thought.

 

[91_GSTBaby]

I've tried to start the car with the MAF unplugged. Doesn't help.


My CAS doesn't make my injectors "click." Both of them don't. I have tested the wiring harness side of the plug to the CAS and its good.

I haven't tried to start it without the alternator yet. I will try that today.
If the ECU triggers the injectors and fuel pump relay, they wouldn't my MPI be good?

None of this makes sense.

 

[tunethis]

I've tried to start the car with the MAF unplugged. Doesn't help.


My CAS doesn't make my injectors "click." Both of them don't. I have tested the wiring harness side of the plug to the CAS and its good.

I haven't tried to start it without the alternator yet. I will try that today.
If the ECU triggers the injectors and fuel pump relay, they wouldn't my MPI be good?

None of this makes sense.

If you are certain the fuel pump is turning on when you crank the car, I'd say the MPI is good. Atleast part of it is.

Does the MPI click after you turn off the ignition? It should, after a few seconds.
Are you certain that fuel is getting to the rail?

If the fuel injectors aren't squirting any fuel, the MPI could be faulty or the ecu isn't grounding them. You said earlier that your boost gauge doesn't go to zero. Is it still doing that? If it doesn't go to zero, I believe something is wrong within the ecu.

One more question....Is your ecu bolted up with the 3 screws? I ask this because for whatever reason my car would not start witout the ecu bolted up.

 

[blackrosenova40]

Hes mentioned a few times already that his plugs are getting drenched, so obviously his pump is working, hes getting pressure to the rail, and his injectors are firing, which means the ecu has power.

I would really try my suggestion but first let me alter it a bit.

Pull your MPI fuse out to disable your computer/injectors from opening. Pull your spark plug wires and plugs out and turn it over a few times, see how much fuel sprays into the air. This will clear the fuel from the combustion chamber. Put everything back,incuding your MPI fuse. Unhook your fuel pump and turn it over a few times to clear any fuel. It actually may fire.

After that hook up the fuel pump and try and start it.

 

[asg1089]

this may or may not be relevant but i'm going to throw it out there. when i upgraded to my walbro 255 i was still running the stock fpr. i was able to run the car on the stock fuel system with the new walbro for a while and then all of a sudden the car just wouldn't start anymore. the walbro ended up overrunning my stock fpr thus drenching the spark plugs and just cranking and not actually starting. i mean it seems as though you have a different problem but maybe it could be somthing as stupid as this. good luck man keep at it.

 

[tunethis]

Hes mentioned a few times already that his plugs are getting drenched, so obviously his pump is working, hes getting pressure to the rail, and his injectors are firing, which means the ecu has power.

I would really try my suggestion but first let me alter it a bit.

Pull your MPI fuse out to disable your computer/injectors from opening. Pull your spark plug wires and plugs out and turn it over a few times, see how much fuel sprays into the air. This will clear the fuel from the combustion chamber. Put everything back,incuding your MPI fuse. Unhook your fuel pump and turn it over a few times to clear any fuel. It actually may fire.

After that hook up the fuel pump and try and start it.

I saw an earlier post about his spark plugs being wet. However, he said that his cas didn't cause the injectors to click. I assumed that meant the injectors weren't spraying. He was also questioning the operation of his mpi relay.

 

[91_GSTBaby]

Call me crazy fellas, but I think i'm obsessed. In the mist of all these problems...


(copy and pasted from my other thread)

So my g/f really is better then yours. Next friday that 1991 Eagle Talon TSI is mine Shes gonna buy it for me! I went over there today and took a further look at it. 120K on the clock, A/T transmission, BONE STOCK. Like so bone stock it still had the spark plug wire plastic holders in place! BOV return hose, the whole she-bang.

This guy bought the car brand new in 1991, and has done straight mistubishi/dealer oil changes/maintence on it since. He has all this paper work on the tire changes, oil changes, everything. I turned the key on, check engine light came on then went off and boost gauge is @ 0. = ECU is operating.

Interior is fully intact but needs some cleaning. The guy is very straightfoward, very laid back. He has the title, and the car's registration is upkept and paid for but its currently registered as a non-op. It has been sitting for 6 years, and the tires sort of have dry rot. Other then that, it turns over when jumped and he says would start but the gas is 6 years old. He is the original owner though.

He said the transmission kicks into neutral when driving sometimes. Theres also a slight knock sound from the motor when turning over and he said he just parked it when the knock sound started.

He said hes not a mechanic so he doesnt know whats wrong with it. Just the knock and the tranny kicking into neutral. It idles fine, revs good, etc. (I couldnt actually get it to fire up.) I ran a dry compression test on it, which came up with some interesting results. Each cylinder was over 120, but each attempt would change sometimes it was 120, other times 150. Nothing ridiculous low.. but it may be in need of a rebuild soon.


$500.00

1991 Eagle Talon TSI A/T with 120K & clean paint.

Shes mine boys. I figure worst case scenario it costs me like 2K to fix it. Its still a TSI oreo!

 

[frankenstein406]

Call me crazy fellas, but I think i'm obsessed. In the mist of all these problems...


(copy and pasted from my other thread)

So my g/f really is better then yours. Next friday that 1991 Eagle Talon TSI is mine Shes gonna buy it for me! I went over there today and took a further look at it. 120K on the clock, A/T transmission, BONE STOCK. Like so bone stock it still had the spark plug wire plastic holders in place! BOV return hose, the whole she-bang.

This guy bought the car brand new in 1991, and has done straight mistubishi/dealer oil changes/maintence on it since. He has all this paper work on the tire changes, oil changes, everything. I turned the key on, check engine light came on then went off and boost gauge is @ 0. = ECU is operating.

Interior is fully intact but needs some cleaning. The guy is very straightfoward, very laid back. He has the title, and the car's registration is upkept and paid for but its currently registered as a non-op. It has been sitting for 6 years, and the tires sort of have dry rot. Other then that, it turns over when jumped and he says would start but the gas is 6 years old. He is the original owner though.

He said the transmission kicks into neutral when driving sometimes. Theres also a slight knock sound from the motor when turning over and he said he just parked it when the knock sound started.

He said hes not a mechanic so he doesnt know whats wrong with it. Just the knock and the tranny kicking into neutral. It idles fine, revs good, etc. (I couldnt actually get it to fire up.) I ran a dry compression test on it, which came up with some interesting results. Each cylinder was over 120, but each attempt would change sometimes it was 120, other times 150. Nothing ridiculous low.. but it may be in need of a rebuild soon.


$500.00

1991 Eagle Talon TSI A/T with 120K & clean paint.

Shes mine boys. I figure worst case scenario it costs me like 2K to fix it. Its still a TSI oreo!

so now you have two problem cars?

 

[Gamble97]

You've had the car a week and you already know more about it and how to troubleshoot more than a lot of others on this board
Good luck, if I think of anything else I'll let you know.
BTW, did you check all the grounds? I think you did but I'll ask again. Compression is low. Should be 160+

 

[bigj884]

so now you have two problem cars?

agree with this coment....i would fix the problem with ## current car before you go and buy another problem car just because it starts up and the one u currently have doesn't

save the $500 and spend on getting the current problem fixed.

hell use the $500 and take it to a shop to fix it for you.

 

[wrecklessracing]

check out your coolant temp sensor mine wouldnt start and i spent day trying to figure out and relized it was just the coolant temp sensor, easy fix if it is the problem!