Please save us. Anyone help!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[91_GSTBaby]

I don't want to take up all your guys' time but I am OUT of ideas.

Please if ANYONE can help me with this I would be in DEBT to you!

Heres the story:

I purchased a 1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS-T with 86k on the clock. Red in color, she is definatly pretty. A/T Transmission, and a clean engine bay.

I took the car over to my parents house to show them after I purchased it, and the battery died. I put the jumper cables on to jump start it and like a total idiot I put the jumper cables on BACKWARDS.
After I saw the huge sparking at the battery terminals I quickly switched them to proper polarity and began to attempt starting it. The car just wouldnt start. Turning over and turning over it chugged and wouldnt fire. Eventually after a few attempts it FINALLY started. Running as if it were on 2 cylinders, it wasn't revving and had 0 power whatsoever. Ashamed of my stupidity I pushed the car in the drive way where it has sat for over 2 weeks of my trouble shooting.


Talked to a couple dsm guys online and did some thread re-search and found that I most likley fried my ECU, TCU, and possibly the wiring harness.
After I pulled my ECU, I took a look at the board and saw a white smokey patch about 2" on the board. NO fish smell though, just the smokey patch.

Talking to Lenin (Bigred16G), he told me that I might as well go DSM LINK and upgrade to my faults. So I bought his EPROM ECU, DSM Link V2.5, his 450 CC Injectors ETC all for a great deal. (He's cool.)

So I got the package, installed the ECU, downloaded V3 of the software (which is confirmed that it works with V2.5), fully connected beautifully, and set all of the DSM link settings to stock (since its a bone stock DSM.)

After everything was good to go, I jumpered the dead battery, and couldn't get it to start up. Turning over as if its out of gas, I could NOT get it to fire. Just over and over.

Talked to some more buddies, they said to check fuses, so I did. Went out and bought 14$ worth of fuses and replaced ones that didnt need to be. Checked spark plugs for spark, DSM Link can click the fuel pump on no problem, and i am getting fuel to the plugs. THere slightly damp, and smell like gas after short attempts to start.

So with spark, fuel, and fuses all good, I figured DSM link was incorrect with the MAF compensation tab.

Posted a log of my attempt to start the car, and Tom Dorris @ ECM Link said there is no reason what so ever for the car not to start. The settings are all good to go.

Still no joy, I start hearing people reccomend the CAS being the problem. So I volt meter the plug wire harness side of the CAS and get back 13V, and 4.9V from the plug. (Manual States this is perfect.)

Check the CAS PINS themselves with the meter for resistance and I only get readings for about an 1/8th of a second. They will not stay on the meter screen so I don't know if that means my CAS is bad or not. I was really trying to avoid pulling the CAS loose so I can test to see if the fuel injectors are clicking because I do not have a readily available timing gun. If the CAS is what you guys all say, then I'll buy one, and get a timing gun.

After checking the CAS, I checked the CTS Coolant Temp Switch wires (green wires) coming off the thermostat housing to be torn (this too would stop the starting). Those wires are good as well.

My next Idea from a buddy was to put the stock 450CC ECU Chip in the EPROM slot instead of DSM Link, and try that. So I swapped chips, and now I have a constant check engine light with the old chip in place, but the engine now wants to start more then ever. Chugging, and ALMOST firing up it seems with the old EPROM chip in place it wants to start a LITTLE more then with dsm link. Just a TINY bit more.

So thats where I am. I hope I didnt post anything that has already been discussed, but I highly doubt my situation is on these forums.

- Fuel is getting to the plugs
- The spark plugs are sparking perfectly
- The CTS Wires are good
- The CAS Plug is delivering perfect readings
- Clean air filter, oil, oil filter, injectors, ETC
- Fuel Pump is activating
- ALL Headlights, taillights, dash lights, fuse box lights, fuses EVERYTHING works.


All I can think of is two things:

-CAS itself is bad and is throwing the ignition timing off causing it to not start/run terrible

-390CC Injectors @ 43.5 PSI with an ECU that is compensating for 450CC @ 37 PSI is causing it to be too rich, bog and fail to start. (Even though DSM Link people say that it should still start with the MAF Comp tabs at 0%, or +6% to compensate for the fuel.)

Intake temps, coolant temps, 02, MAF readings are all right on with Link.


Please anyone, from the DSM gods above PLEASE someone help us. She's in need guys, badly.


Also, the BOV was vented from the ricer guy before he sold it to me. So I bought some hose and vented it properly.


Again thank you ALL for ALL your help. This is no longer a DSM LINK Related topic so I'm bringing my problem to you.


Thanks SO MUCH!

Josh

 

[4G63_Attack]

Maybe you shouldn't run the iridiums plugs way too much $$ might as well run the copper plugs..

 

[91_GSTBaby]

Yeah I'm running the cheaper plugs now.

Heres a video I took a few minutes ago, give you guys a better insight on this whole thing. Hopefully you can hear it well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW1zVSBCwWc


Thanks again for all your help, after removal of the plugs again they continue to stay rich. They are drenched after I lowered the fuel 12%. I might go play around with the MAF (unplug it) and try some different things I'll get back.


Thanks again.

-Josh

 

[Bluesideup]

You're probably at the point where you just want to light fire to your DSM. We've all been there.

When I bought my 2G it also had problems starting and would drench the plugs with fuel. In fact it wouldn't drive more than 3 miles. Anyway the problem was a combination of a bad ECU and the incorrect TPS installed. Since your car was running before this incident and has a different ECU I would try testing your TPS.

On my car the TPS was telling the ECU that the throttle was 100% which is why the injectors were wide open.

You checked all of the grounds right? If one of those little harness grounds does not have continuity you'll have these problems too. I left the ECU ground disconnected on a VW after doing the timing belt, on startup it only ran on two cylinders and made me need new shorts.

 

[frankenstein406]

you check the alt fuse and all grounds?

 

[91_GSTBaby]

Close, I was actually considering crushing it. My face would go from to once it was crushed.

I have not checked all grounds, I don't know where all of them are. How many are there? I wonder if there is a link to a list of them. I havent bolted the ECU into the cars frame once since I swapped them, I was told by DSM4G63ATTACK (john) that his car ran with ECU not bolted in. Mine hasn't been bolted in.

BTW the ALT fuse gets extremely hot when I try to start the car. I'm assuming its no good.
I turned the fuel down to -39% and went to start it, same thing no joy, but when I pulled one of the plugs it was finally dry! However the cylinder was smoking like a cigar. :lean:

I tried raising the fuel sliders about 6-7% richer then the leanest possiblity and nothing. I have no idea what to do anymore. My girlfriend is fed up, I am going to be diagnosed with severe depression soon. My entire life I wanted a turbo DSM. My first car ever was a N/T dsm, and now that I have my turbo DSM I am sitting with my thumb in my ass. Any of you fellas know what its like to get a 80K pristine Turbo DSM and put the cables on backwards, spend 650$ trouble shooting, and have it just sit?

Don't know about you but I am about to sell my truck, my broken DSM, my dirtbikes and go buy a used VR4 TT 3000GT.

Please keep the help coming, is there anyone in Socal that maybe wants to come help? I'll pay what i can.. maybe I should post in the socal forums...

 

[Bluesideup]

I've never checked the temperature of my ALT fuse when starting the car. It might get hot on any car since you're flowing all that current through the system. Can't say one way or another. My 1G GSX didn't run at all when the alternator crapped out. The dash lights came on and it stumbled to a stop. You may have just blasted the alternator.

Be sure when you check those grounds you check for continuity not just visual. You should be able to find someone close to help. I sent a PM.

 

[frankenstein406]

this happened to a friend actually, he went through alts starters yada yada. he shorted a cell in the battery it would crank and almost start but never run. Sorry i forgot.

 

[91_GSTBaby]

Wouldn't it be nice if that was the issue? Do you really think a battery that is getting full charge of 14V when jumped and turning the car over perfectly has a shorted cell causing it to not start?

The battery goes from 14V down to about 8-9 when I'm cranking.

 

[frankenstein406]

Wouldn't it be nice if that was the issue? Do you really think a battery that is getting full charge of 14V when jumped and turning the car over perfectly has a shorted cell causing it to not start?

The battery goes from 14V down to about 8-9 when I'm cranking.

could be wrong but I don't think it should be going that low at all. Bring it to auotzone?

 

[91_GSTBaby]

I'm getting all kinds of confirmation that my battery is most likley shot. Along with my alternator/alt fuse possibly. is the excess fuel from no TRUE spark cleaning out the plugs? I will take the battery to autozone tomorrow, have it tested and buy a new one. Unless its being jumped it has 0 power. It has like 5-6 volts if its not being jumped.

 

[mindset]

1) Check timing.
2) Compression Test

If there was gas on the plugs that could mean several different things. In my case it was bent valves.

 

[frankenstein406]

don't just throw money around. Only buy one if yours is shot. have them do the slow charge so bring it in the morning. yup alt fuse to was his problem.

 

[91_GSTBaby]

I can't run a compression test right now my compression tester isn't in this state . LONNG story...

Test the timing?? What about it? The ignition timing? The timing belt? I can't do either because the car doesn't start.

 

[92EagleAWD]

I can't run a compression test right now my compression tester isn't in this state . LONNG story...

Test the timing?? What about it? The ignition timing? The timing belt? I can't do either because the car doesn't start.

I think he may have meant the base timing, from the video it sounds like its cranking over too easily, if you get what i mean, like it doesnt have much compression or something. My buddies RX-7 was having the same EXACT problem, but it ended being the resistors went bad. I know its a different car and engine, but the plugs were always soaked when we pulled them and it would just try to start all the time, but it never would, it would just get real close. But either way you should get the battery, AND alternator tested, they will usually do it at the same place. In a lot of cases when the alternators and some starters go bad they can become a big short circuit in the system.

 

[Afroclipse]

I see fuel, i see air, i don't see the ignitions underpants. I put 880's and ran them for a mins in my car with the stock ecu and it was rich as F*** but it ran.

How sure are you that the spark plugs are firing?

 

[91_GSTBaby]

100% on the spark from each plug. I'm gonna have the battery tested. Possibly alternator I dont know.

 

[Afroclipse]

I didn't get a chance to read but did you do a compression check, plus why did you pay 56 dollars for O-rings thats just rediculous.

 

[GUTSI]

It's really too bad Mitsu didnt build these cars with a 'safety relay' (basically a backwards relay that prevents any current going thru the system when one accidentally reverses the jump cables)
I think that should be standard on ALL vehicles equipped with an EFI.


Lets try to use process of elimination: There are 5 basic fundamentals that are needed to start a car:
1. Battery/Starter: Your starter's obviously ok 'cause it cranks....the battery however, questionable. The reversed polarity could've possibly caused serious damage internally. I know you mentioned its showing 14v from the other battery, so we'll leave the battery out for now (you can always try another battery, but try all these options first before spending $$ on a brand new batt. You've spent enough as it is) Also, it's cranking (and from the vid it sounds like a healthy crank)...

2. Fuel. You're getting fuel (obviously 'cause plugs are soaked)

3. Spark. You mentioned you're getting a spark...how did you verify this? If you wanna test again to be sure, try this: If you can access an ignition tester (safer), pull sparkplug wire from #1 cylinder, hook up tester, crank and look for a nice spark. If good, do the same for sparkplug wire #2 (this will test other coil) IF you dont have access to a tester, you can do the test by holding the end of the wire close to something metal (i.e screwdriver...but one with a rubber or plastic handle) Be careful tho...this is 40,000 volts we're dealing with here!
IF there's no spark (or its weak or intermittent), time to chk the coils: disconnect the coil connecter. Connect the probe of a test light to the center terminal of the connecter, the other end to one of the outer terminals. Crank the engine, the test light should flash on/off.
IF no flashing, chk the wiring harness for a short.
IF ok, chk MFI relay.
IF ok chk CAS (which you did), the ECU (which you also did)
Also, might help to chk your sparkplug wires for resistance.

4. Timing. Again, since you tried another CAS, it's ruled out.

5. Compression. Normal comp is anywhere between 170-185 psi. Service limit around 130psi. Engines wont start when compression is abnormally low (under 100 psi) So if you can, a comp test would help the process.

You mentioned the alternator fuse gettin really hot. That's probably because the ' voltage regulator' in the alternator got fried during the reverse hook up. Good chance the diode crapped out too. It shouldnt cause a no start tho, it just wont charge the battery. I would recommend disconnecting the alternator plug, then crank. If the fuse doesnt glow/ get hot....you definately need an alternator (or rebuild)

How did the car run BEFORE you drove it your folks? I assume fine? Absolutely no issues?

The hard thing with trying to diagnose this, is that it could be ANYTHING! Lol electricity can be quite unpredictable....but one thing's for sure: it'll always travel the path of least resistance. So it must have gotten to something.
Since you checked ALL fuses (right?)...and sensors (CAS, ECT etc...) then there's also the definate possibility of a short somewhere. Circuit? Harness?

To find a short, pull the appropriate fuse, connect a test light. It shouldn't light. Wiggle the harness...it still shouldnt light. If it does, there's a short in that particular circuit.

Sorry if anything I mentioned may seem redundant....but it helps to eliminate possible causes one by one.

Anyways.....please let me (rest of us) know how your progress is going.

Good luck

 

[okm12346]

If battery and alternator check out, I'd check the MPI relay. It has two circuits - one for the fuel pump /obviously it works/, and one for the ECU. The relay is supposed to have fail save diodes for preventing of reversed polarity. Also grab a voltmeter and go over the ECU pinout voltages. It shouldnt take you more than 20 min. Are you sure the spark is strong enough? Having a spark doesnt mean it'll ignite the fuel. Also, check voltages on MAF, TPS, power transistor and coil pack.

Make sure all plugs are wiped clean before you put them in. I had a buddy of mine having the no start issues a couple of days ago, and it was simple as this

 

[TurboTerror99]

It sounds like you're on the right path, man! Don't get discouraged... the rewards will definitely be worth the trouble. Good luck!

 

[xhackerekx]

sound like no compression.

 

[Illmat1c]

Sorry to hear the problems man, we all know your pain, since we all decided to be dumb and buy a DSM.

Now onto more important things. Even though your car seemed to run fine it can still have awful compression. My car ran 145-100-101-155, I knew it wasn't right but no one else could really tell since 2 other people had or have a DSM in my town. Get your tester and check it, literally the first thing I said out loud when I heard the video was compression or timing.

And have you check your base timing? Here is a link from vfaq (a DSM bible) to check the base timing. Engine Timing

Ross

 

[Gamble97]

WOW this is a strange problem. I would do the following.
Rent/borrow a compression tester.
Line up your timing marks to make sure the belt didn't skip.
If your plugs get soaked with fuel you can try to attempt to start the car with the gas pedal all the way down, dsmlink will shut off the injectors and you will clear out the chamber.
Get a new battery. Check the ground from the battery to the chassis.
And for shits and giggles try to start the car in neutral. Maybe it's something silly like the park/neutral safety switch. Not sure if it will crank on these cars but it's just one more thing to check.
Also log tps value and whatever else you can and post up a log. I can't believe nobody has asked you for one yet.
Have you tried blipping the throttle while cranking it?

 

[91_GSTBaby]

Wow guys. Thanks for these GREAT replies.

Again, let me try to answer..

As for the condition of the car before it came to my parents house, it ran flawless. There were no issues with the car when I bought it all the way up to here. The car only had 85K on the whole engine/tranny so i figured mechanically its probably ok. I didn't run a compression test on it when I bought it for those reasons. The car is turning over the same way it always have though. You guys may think it sounds of low compression, which it may have but that isn't the reason it won't start. UNLESS it got WORSE then it was. The car started before with the same style compression/turn over.

Thats a good idea Paul I will try the neutral/pedal down ideas..

-Yes I have tried blipping the throttle
-I cannot check my base timing until the motor is operating at full tempature.

-I am going to test my battery today at autozone and replace it if its shot. I will also replace my alternator fuse, but I will unplug the alternator and see if thats what is causing it to get hot. (thanks for that tip too)

-I verified the spark by grounding the plug tip to the valve cover, and cranking it. Each and every plug has strong spark.


-I haven't litterally checked 100% of the fuses. I figure if the dash lights and stuff work what is the point of pulling the little guys? As for the bigger fusable link ones, all of those look good. I haven't used a fuse TESTER per say on them but the connection looks good. I replaced the ignition fuse just to be safe. I did pull all the little 10,20's,30's under the hood though and there good.

I will report as SOON as I get a new battery in (if I need one), I might buy some new cheap plugs as well. Put the fuel tabs back to 0, make sure link is good, bolt the ECU in place (to be safe by adding an extra ground), and with the battery in place, and possibly a new alternator fuse I will try. I will try the neutral, and the pedal down to clear the chambers if they foul again.

Thanks all for your family-help on these cars guys.

-Josh

 

[beniger]

i was driving the other day and boosting through town and hit a pot hole my battery wasn't bolted down and jump i guess and got stuck to my hood shorting my car out. Anywho i pulled the key and knocked the bat off my hood and i needed to replace all my grounds in my car they all welded to the spots where they were at i had to grind and rewire my grounds so i'm good to go ..side note my throttle cable also welded it self and my pettle didn't work i turn up the idle and let it run all the way home ha ha ftw