Please Guide me through my 4g63 6 bolt 500+ WHP journey!

[cjeclipse]

Hi everyone! this is my very first build. Im still learning as i go.

So i have a 4g63 6 bolt but, leave the engine internals and transmission upgrades/problems up to me.

So as i learned, there's proper turbo, intercooler, and intercooler piping sizes on different applications.

My question is. What are reliable options you would recommend for my build trying to push it to at least 500whp reliably?
1. What turbo, intercooler and piping sizes should i look for? And what brands are most recomended? While still on a budget (but no ebay stuff). For the piping I just need to know what size? Cause i will be wielding and fitting these myself. Or does size or lengths really matter on piping? Or just the intercooler?

2. What i already have for the build (these are bought second hand):
Magnus fuel rail
Precision injectors 1200cc
550 walboro fuel pump
Fuelab fuel filter housing and regulator
ECMLink v3
Speed density kit
Turboxs BOV

*now on this list is there anything i should change for my goals?? And does any of this brake easily that i shouldn’t have bought second hand?

3. what wastegate should i buy thats reliable but not overkill on the price?

4. Any top mount turbo manifold i should buy? Or should i just make my own? Equal length or unequal length? Or no matter?

Leave the transmission and clutch side for another thread cause i wont be using any stock transmissions.

I WILL BE DOING ALL MY RESEARCH AND EDUCATE MYSELF ABOUT ALL THOSE QUESTIONS THOROUGHLY. i just wanted to ask here for peoples recommendations and knowledges. This is my first ever turbo build. Please no links as i will find all those links myself. Just your own thoughts and help. Thanks!!!

Also should i buy a boost controller? Or an adjustable(change springs) wastegate and a proper tune good enough? Cause i dont really like fidling if its already set and realiable. And possibly overboosting it or whatever. Never really had one to know the difference. Like if i lower the boost or higher it, do i need proper tune on every adjustment? Id like it to be reliable

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

There’s a lot of different routes you can go there. As far as a turbo to hit your goal I didn’t see fuel type mentioned. If you want cost vs reliability I would look at the Holset turbos. On e85 a 7 blade hx35 in a bep .70ar open t3 housing will get you there, on pump gas probably not. However the hy35 is a very pump gas friendly turbo and comes with a 9cm open t3 housing that plays very nicely with our platform, just not as easy to find these days in comparison to the hx35 and hx40. On the plus side with the hy35 the “Rev 9” cast exhaust manifold that’s a Chinese knockoff of the old Turbonetics/Treadstone manifold will allow it to clear with no spacer and is under $100 shipped new right now, unlike the Chinese knockoff tubular manifolds it doesn’t fail prematurely being heavy cast. A top mount manifold is in no way necessary for your goal unless you want one, but it’s not needed at all. As far as wastegate options go I’ve used Tial wastegates with no issue, seen Precision wastegates used no issue, and have also used 55 dollar shipped Chinese wastegates with absolutely no issue so it’s your call and what kind of chance you want to take. I don’t know if it says anything but the stock bottom end record car got there on a 100 dollar “VS Racing” or “On3 Performance” wastegate and Erik has had no issue out of it, works just as any top shelf gate would. As far as boost control goes I’d pick up a solenoid and control boost with ecmlink for something that size however a manual boost controller like a Hallman would be sufficient. I would in no way call a boost controller “fiddling around” as you could end up doing much more of that swapping and switching springs to get the desired result.

 

[cjeclipse]

There’s a lot of different routes you can go there. As far as a turbo to hit your goal I didn’t see fuel type mentioned. If you want cost vs reliability I would look at the Holset turbos. On e85 a 7 blade hx35 in a bep .70ar open t3 housing will get you there, on pump gas probably not. However the hy35 is a very pump gas friendly turbo and comes with a 9cm open t3 housing that plays very nicely with our platform, just not as easy to find these days in comparison to the hx35 and hx40. On the plus side with the hy35 the “Rev 9” cast exhaust manifold that’s a Chinese knockoff of the old Turbonetics/Treadstone manifold will allow it to clear with no spacer and is under $100 shipped new right now, unlike the Chinese knockoff tubular manifolds it doesn’t fail prematurely being heavy cast. A top mount manifold is in no way necessary for your goal unless you want one, but it’s not needed at all. As far as wastegate options go I’ve used Tial wastegates with no issue, seen Precision wastegates used no issue, and have also used 55 dollar shipped Chinese wastegates with absolutely no issue so it’s your call and what kind of chance you want to take. I don’t know if it says anything but the stock bottom end record car got there on a 100 dollar “VS Racing” or “On3 Performance” wastegate and Erik has had no issue out of it, works just as any top shelf gate would. As far as boost control goes I’d pick up a solenoid and control boost with ecmlink for something that size however a manual boost controller like a Hallman would be sufficient. I would in no way call a boost controller “fiddling around” as you could end up doing much more of that swapping and switching springs to get the desired result.

I appreciate the comment! I only see the hx 35 and hy35 on diesel power products, turbo direct, and dales super store. Are these stores reliable? Any recomendations where i should look for them so i can keep it on my options. I see it ranging from 1000-1400. And also the gas. Its almost imposible to find ethanol 85 where im from. So ill have to stick with pump gas and 95 is the highest number octane for premium gas and thats my only option. And yes top mount is what im aiming for. I might have to learn the proper measurement of manifolds and try to make one myself. Im pretty confident with my wielding, but if i could buy a cheap one and save me time that would be nice.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I don't think you'll see 500 on pump gas. Race fuel or 100 octane yes it is possible. You need a stout bottom end. Good rods (H beam, I beam or aluminum), good pistons (Manley, Weisco, Eagle, JE, etc). Stock crank will do at 500. Arp studs all around. 60mm + turbo although the 58mm HX35 is a good middle of the road choice. 12mm lift cams make it easier to get there but some smaller sets will work. If you have more specific questions, ask.
Watching to see how this all pans out and anxious for you and your first build.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

I wouldn’t say 500 is impossible on pump gas. I was making 454 on an s363 in a .82ar open t3 housing on an untouched 130k mile non turbo 6 bolt bottom end, had much more on the table but the tuner didn’t want to push it anymore which is understandable, but even so on stock turbo pistons and what not I’d be weary of pushing around 500 mark with pump gas, I just was at the point I didn’t care if I put the non turbo block out of its misery.

We’ve made as much as 551 on a built 2.3 with an s366 at 27lbs on a low reading Mustang dyno on the crappiest Sheetz 93 octane we could find, but again Eagle h beams and 9:1 Wiseco HD’s in a 2.3 stroker were on the table there (same set up made 735 on 41lbs on e85 same dyno session).

Type hy35 in the search bar on here, @JusMX141 has some great threads on results with his buddies car on pump gas using the hy35. He also builds turbos and I would recommend him to anyone, he could get a Holset to you at better than new quality much better than that well over 1000 price tag and could possibly make a good recommendation for your goals.

Also I forgot to add earlier to keep in mind there are “bolt on” stock placement turbos available through Forced Performance that could hit your 500 with a stock td05 flange that will make that mounted to a ported stock 2g manifold or FP race manifold, however me personally, I’d go straight to a t3 flange to have more options if that was my goal.

Also something to think about since you don’t have e85 available is meth injection, that’ll help you stretch the pump gas out a bit further and a bit safer. A lot of articles on here in regards to meth injection. And again, I know you’re set on a top mount manifold, but something to consider there is you will be moving a lot more around to accommodate it which can jeapordize the reliability you’re looking for out of certain things for zero performance gain or benefit.

Again, not bashing your decision or down talking top mount manifolds but for what you’re looking to do it’d just be at the expense of more headache with nothing to gain in what you’re looking to do, plenty of stock placement solutions that will get you there, again people exceed that with ported stock manifolds and FP manifolds with some “bolt on” options. Just had to drive across the state so had a bit more time to think on your situation, either way good luck on it, look forward to seeing updates.

 

[Bedicine]

Op what did you end up going with? I’m going down this same road now looking for the 500 hp number

 

[CrackedDSM]

Why is it the first thing anyone “upgrades” in a sub 1000HP build is always the fuel rail. It’s unnecessary and a waste of money unless yours is broken with stripped threads or some kind of weirdness. Future DSMers, stop doing this. Use your stock fuel rail. Save the money for other things.