Old School DSM & 4G63 goodness-Ads, Commercials, Tuning etc.

[ArcticTsi]

2. When did the Archer Bros and Dave Wolin Motorsports get their DSMs?
2a) Tech Spec: Mitsubishi 4G63 turbocharged 2 liter engine, HKS VPC, HKS EVC, Modified Mitsubishi 5 speed . Where did you get this info? I want to know more of this, if a VPC was available in 90 from HKS did they have parts strictly for race teams in beta and then sold them to the general public in mid to late 92 as alluded to from tuners in the mid to late 92 race season.

3. When did they start selling DSMs to the general public?

I don't recall exactly when Archer Racing and Wolin Motorsports got their cars. Its out there on the boards though. But, they were part of the first run. This gets us back to the muddiness of the early VINs.
VIN: LE000302 -Early H24S - Champagne Car (Pre-Production model)
VIN: LE000308 - H24S - Red Vert Car (Pre-Production model)
VIN: LE000760 - Gov. Thompsons's Red Eclipse Car (1st production car for public consumption)

So you see there is some major gaps.
We know the first transport was loaded and left the plant in December of 1988. Picture of said transport below.

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So begs the question were all of the cars sent of for racing programs in theory "pre-production" as they were produced before JOB #1 (Governor's two cars).

Initial batch of cars that went out
1 car - went to Paul Rossi
3 cars - (if memory serves me right) went to Archer
3 cars - went to HKS
17 ~ 20 cars - went to Wolin Motorsports. They campaigned 3 and prepared another 14 ~ 17 for the Macau Grand Prix. My recollection of how many Wolin got is hazy on this one too. Have some old correspondence on this. (adding a picture of the Eclipse Series racers at the Macau Grand prix)

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I'll catch up on your posts and provide some details and insight on all your thoughts and questions on the tuning aspect. But, basically in the states the shops and individuals were all doing their own R&D and we were just playing catch up to what was already out on the Japanese market.

 

[ist dwa]

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[19Eclipse90]

One of best threads on here. Makes me realize I was lucky to fall in love with them the way I did. Just happened upon one at 16 and it was over. Had I been just a little bit older my life would’ve been different, cuz it would’ve been nothing but DSM from the beginning . Would’ve been awesome to be around the scene when Shep and everyone were breaking the glass ceilings. Anywho, my wife got me this for Xmas so thought I’d put it up. I see it was on page 2, but we got it just last year. From a National Geographic mag originally.

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“Growing Up in East Harlem” was the magazine issue’s title. Ah, the benefits of parents hoarding NG from around that time! I had their copy located and will be taking possession of it soon, just for this ad.

Thanks for posting!

 

[pauleyman]

I can't believe I just saw this thread for the first time. It has taken me hours to carefully read through it all and watch the videos to this point. I have so many questions, thoughts, and stuff I would like to add.

One, thanks to everyone for sharing. I have been collecting anything DSM related when I became interested in the cars in 95 and I can' believe how much stuff I have never seen, I thought I had most of it.

Two, I want to know what mods were done to the early road racing cars? Not to shit on Dave B at all but he claims he was the first to run 13's. I seriously doubt that knowing all you need is upped boost and a full exhaust to do so. Based on that sweet video of the IMSA Saturday night, the cars had to retain, stock turbos and boost pressure as well as gearing so not them...but they already had a VPC for an American made Mitsu, how was this so? A VPC accounted for so much extra power, it automatically would send you into the 12s because it eliminated fuel cut. Now, a friend and I have been doing research and HKS was making VPCs in the early 80's for what ever car so I think I figured out the key to early DSM power. The HKS VPC is universal UNIT however there is a socketed chip in them, so basically from car to car they just changed this chip to tell it what size injectors and # of cylinder, remember Buschur Racing sold a 660 VPC chip (yeahh I owned one).

From there when did the HKS VPC become sold in America? That article from Motor Trend "Smoking Z-28s..." is from DEC 91. The Galant was being raced in Japan while the 1gAs were rolling off the assembly line so I wonder if HKS Japan already had this going. Prior to that there was no current GVR4 or 1G ecu for HKS to make the parts for, remember it uses an intermediate harness to connect the VPC unit and ECU. So from Nov 88- Dec 91 the VPC was sold in America, who got it on their car first was the first one to run 13s and 12s. Full Exhaust, K&N, VPC, 20psi on a 14b, with race gas and you get low13's or high 12's!

I just really want to know the early paths of modifying the cars, that is the mystery I have been trying to unravel for sooo many year. I mean I am good friends with an original owner DSMer who is from Northeast OH that was racing and hanging out with Shep (he was in Sheps wedding), Dave, Switzer, AL Blaha, etc who were really the pioneers of what we calls the modified DSM game today. But I feel like that was a little late as this stuff in this thread is literally 88 and 89. Who was tigging up an exhaust on an 89 Talon is what I want to know, who was the one putting a bleeder T on the wastegate Line. Who the first guy to run 15psi and hit fuel cut and thought he blew his car UP.....??

I'll leave this here for now, I don't want to make a 10 page reply which I easily could. I will be replying back with all kinds of things periodically.

I will preview with this:
-I did my 98' Senior High School English thesis on the DSM, I spent countless hours at the library going through microfiche files of any car magazine from the late 80s.
-I tracked down the head designer David O'Connel from the X2S concept Eclipse back in 2010 and did an interview with him.
-And much more.

I'll leave this as my oldest related article.......

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Buschur claims to be the first in the USA with a VPC. he was a contributing editor to the MDSOG newslog produced by Alamo autosports in San Antonio. I've got most if not all the issues somewhere and it was there he wrote about it. Before forums etc. Buschur may be right. If I recall the stories his first dsm wasn't the record setting car. If I recall he bought another car with no options and that one went 13s 12s 11s etc.

 

[ist dwa]

There was no way he was the first in the 13s....not that that is important. Now, if he was the 1st with a VPC he probably was the first in the 12s. If you have the NEWS letters please scan them. I know what they are but they have never been published on the internet and I wasn't a subscriber. Those letters would tell me all the things I really want to know. I may just ask Dave at the SO this year for them so I can scan and catalog them.

As for Dave's first car, as I understand it, it was the 91 purple talon that he sold to Shep which became Sheps famous fast DSM. Then Dave built the RWD as Shep sold his 92 Red DSM when he got the purple car.

I don't recall exactly when Archer Racing and Wolin Motorsports got their cars. Its out there on the boards though. But, they were part of the first run. This gets us back to the muddiness of the early VINs.
VIN: LE000302 -Early H24S - Champagne Car (Pre-Production model)
VIN: LE000308 - H24S - Red Vert Car (Pre-Production model)
VIN: LE000760 - Gov. Thompsons's Red Eclipse Car (1st production car for public consumption)

I have a thought I came up for this. The VIN #s do make sense if you ask me. My guess is the manufacture made ~700 prototypes, think design models, test models, and crash tested models before they started selling to the general public and each one was VIN numbered regardless what happened to them.

Clearly the first ones are smaller vin #s than the later ones. There were 8 different model types of a 1ga. I am assuming that they did runs of say 2.0NT - AT cars and made 1000 of them. Then they stopped retooled the production line and did say 500 AWD 5spd cars....etc etc.

 

[pauleyman]

There was no way he was the first in the 13s....not that that is important. Now, if he was the 1st with a VPC he probably was the first in the 12s. If you have the NEWS letters please scan them. I know what they are but they have never been published on the internet and I wasn't a subscriber. Those letters would tell me all the things I really want to know. I may just ask Dave at the SO this year for them so I can scan and catalog them.

As for Dave's first car, as I understand it, it was the 91 purple talon that he sold to Shep which became Sheps famous fast DSM. Then Dave built the RWD as Shep sold his 92 Red DSM when he got the purple car.

Now I gotta go find those newslogs. If...if I remember the 91 purple car was not the first one. Might have even been Dave's dad's car and a 90 if I recall which prompted Dave to buy the now famous 91 as a stripped down model but awd.

I have a thought I came up for this. The VIN #s do make sense if you ask me. My guess is the manufacture made ~700 prototypes, think design models, test models, and crash tested models before they started selling to the general public and each one was VIN numbered regardless what happened to them.

Clearly the first ones are smaller vin #s than the later ones. There were 8 different model types of a 1ga. I am assuming that they did runs of say 2.0NT - AT cars and made 1000 of them. Then they stopped retooled the production line and did say 500 AWD 5spd cars....etc etc.

 

[ArcticTsi]

That is exactly the stuff I want to know, I need more.
Line of questions-

2a) Tech Spec: Mitsubishi 4G63 turbocharged 2 liter engine, HKS VPC, HKS EVC, Modified Mitsubishi 5 speed . Where did you get this info? I want to know more of this, if a VPC was available in 90 from HKS did they have parts strictly for race teams in beta and then sold them to the general public in mid to late 92 as alluded to from tuners in the mid to late 92 race season.

Will give just my perspective and first hand accounts of what I witnessed from across the pond at this time. Just my view on some of the super early tuning and why I think in the US we were playing catch up in the consumer market.

In Japan the 4G63T & 4G61T (Cyclone), which we got a derivative of in the DSMs was announced in 86' and was added to the full Cyclone line-up for Mitsubishi MY 87' collaterals. Thus the 4G63T & 4G61T was offered in the Galant and Mirage respectively.

That same year the below pictured 4G63 that was was on display at the 1987 Tokyo Motor Show and had 295hp @ 8000rpm and 330 ft/lb @5000rpm. It was well know that the engine had undergone testing for a significant amount well before its reveal.

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Next up is Dave Wolin Motorsports who was sponsored by Team Mitsubishi Ralliart an charged with building the Eclipse race cars for the Macau Grand Prix.
Those cars raced in 1989 with 240hp, new camber/caster plates, new springs, new struts, new exhaust, Work Equip 16x7 wheels, 225/50ZR16 tires and that's all I gleaned from the articles in Japan. So the Wolins camp obviously had been provided some goodies, ransacked the Mitsu parts bin, collaborated with Mitsu/Ralliart, etc.

Plus this was a high profile event for Japan in China. They even had Keiichi Tsuchiya (aka Drift King) racing in the event. So the pressure to build a decently powerful and reliable car and enough of them for a whole series had to be high on the Wolin's camp.
Tsuchiya-sans eclipse pictured below.

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Then you can get into Archer's Camp who had the relationship with HKS and raced under their banner and took 1st in its inaugural season.

 

[ist dwa]

Can we get into contact with either of the Archer brothers and ask them, they would be about 70 years old these days.

Also, can anyone confirm when the small and big 16g became available. I know the EVO, produced in 92, had a s16g and a few had b16g with yellow top 550cc injectors.

 

[ArcticTsi]

Can we get into contact with either of the Archer brothers and ask them, they would be about 70 years old these days.

Lol! Their cars are around. At least one member with an Archer car confirmed it had HKS electronics.

My throwback addition for today. From the Macau Grand Prix. Always fun to see our cars racing back in the day when new and so many.

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[ArcticTsi]

Can we get into contact with either of the Archer brothers and ask them, they would be about 70 years old these days.

I see your really interested in the HKS stuff so I just went through a couple old folders I had in my office. Found this flyer from HKS from the 1990 Tokyo Auto Salon, which is held the first weekend of every January.

So as you can see they already had the PFC F-CON and the EVC as a standard line up item. I want to say the EVC-1 pictured debuted in 87. I know my FCD and SLD I got in 87 or 88.

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[ArcticTsi]

I can't believe I just saw this thread for the first time. It has taken me hours to carefully read through it all and watch the videos to this

Just loaded the finals of the Eclipse Lubrolene Cup that was held at the Macau Grand Prix for those who may not have seen it. These were the Eclipse N1 cars that Wolins Motorsports built under the Mitsubishi Ralliart banner.

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[ArcticTsi]

Buschur claims to be the first in the USA with a VPC. he was a contributing editor to the MDSOG newslog produced by Alamo autosports in San Antonio. I've got most if not all the issues somewhere and it was there he wrote about it. Before forums etc. Buschur may be right. If I recall the stories his first dsm wasn't the record setting car. If I recall he bought another car with no options and that one went 13s 12s 11s etc.

Alamo a name I have not heard in some time

I think its very hard to prove any of us were the first at anything. Anecdotally, a lot of us were getting the news letters, the digest, all the bulletin boards (BBS) in near real time while it was all going on. It was a great time following everyone's development. But then there was a ton we never saw, because there was no real social media platforms that were cheaply available to everyone, not everyone had a computer a phone etc.

There was no way he was the first in the 13s....not that that is important. Now, if he was the 1st with a VPC he probably was the first in the 12s. If you have the NEWS letters please scan them. I know what they are but they have never been published on the internet and I wasn't a subscriber. Those letters would tell me all the things I really want to know. I may just ask Dave at the SO this year for them so I can scan and catalog them.

So I went into the garage to dig a little. To find some old things to help with understanding why I don't think John was the first. If anything, his exploits got a lot of attention because he had a better platform and enjoyed the limelight. Plus his focus was drag racing. In America drag racing gets all the press, where as in other countries Drag Racing is almost non-existent, they love track/circuit, time attack, rally, etc. But, even someone like me with no real connections; be it brands, manufacturing, racing etc. I had some of these old electronic goodies. Also, as you know there were standard type versions of much of the electronics, which were designed to be universal. So as a military member travelling back and forth between Japan and America it was fun to bring goodies that I knew were not common in America, or maybe not even available. I still have a couple things that have never made it to my car, but will one day, hopefully, .

fuel cut defencer from 87' ~ 88'

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Also found an old HKS USA Brochure from 87'

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[DreamChaser7]

Photo dump for viewing pleasure to those who want it. Left out a couple of the less intriguing pages.

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[ist dwa]

Doesn't the FCD have to be used with P Fcon. I gotta be honest I never learned what those two items were. I used a VPC with an AFC or GCC, but never the other two listed.

From the little info out there about them supposedly the fcon would be equivalent to a global adjustment which was set by HKS and you the end user had no adjustability on it???

 

[ArcticTsi]

Photo dump for viewing pleasure to those who want it. Left out a couple of the less intriguing pages.

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This Pic with the Rossi and Archer Talon is gold. Thanks for adding.

Doesn't the FCD have to be used with P Fcon. I gotta be honest I never learned what those two items were. I used a VPC with an AFC or GCC, but never the other two listed.

From the little info out there about them supposedly the fcon would be equivalent to a global adjustment which was set by HKS and you the end user had no adjustability on it???

The FCD does not have to go with the PFC F-Con. The FCD just runs in line from the MAS to the ECU. Basically tricking the ECU and allowing you to adjust the fuel-cut point. So no matter what you did to raise the boost, bleeder, mbc, wastegate actuator, etc the air volume would quickly over run the stock setting and was an issue on many cars. So this would trick that circuit, and only that circuit. The PFC F-con was a piggy back fuel unit, allowing for new fuel maps. Recommended, because you are raising boost after all and the fuel needs will be different.

So a lot of by the pants tuning when you went the FCD route back in the day. Basic sporty prep recipe has been the same since forever across all platforms and could be done safely if done smartly with the FCD. Free flowing air intake, free flowing exhaust, manual boost adjustment, some 110 and a diet. With that recipe you could just shoot for a WOT tune, which I know some guys did. By tapping the o2 line with an analog volt meter and dancing above stoich. Not recommended, but your car always feels faster right before it melts, . Well, I digress.

Todays addition. For your vert fix
Then

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Now

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[ArcticTsi]

Funny Car Friday! Well, not actually a funny car, sounds good though

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[97egl]

This was a really cool picture to see. I've never seen the plug wires routed so nicely and with the cover, so until seeing this picture I never noticed the red stripe on the cover almost looks like a continuation of the spark plug wires. Very cool

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[ArcticTsi]

The drag car I posted above when it was first delivered. One of my favorite shots.

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[ArcticTsi]

Another one for the thread.

The X2S at the 88' Chicago auto Show. The one leaning on the car is Gov. Thompson. Whom brought DSM to Normal, Illinois.

I always finding myself looking at the subtle differences of this prototype and the production product.

1. Stance, significantly lower than our standard cars.
2. Tires, 225/50/16
3. Hood & Grill is one piece
4. Lower side skirts molded into the body
5. Front bumper is totally different especially with the deep front air dam

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[MindBlowin03]

It also got the painted b-pillar only, which ended up only on the Plymouth's.

I have a handful of pictures of the prototype as well and it sits significantly higher than in this photo. Very much resembles what we ended up with on the 1G cars.

 

[ArcticTsi]

It also got the painted b-pillar only, which ended up only on the Plymouth's.

I have a handful of pictures of the prototype as well and it sits significantly higher than in this photo. Very much resembles what we ended up with on the 1G cars.

Great catch on the B-pillar. Yea, they cut the springs for the show circuit. Crazy to think that when they gave this car to be road tested and reviewed they were putting a car with cut springs through its paces.

Todays addition.

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[MindBlowin03]

They must have hired a good safety guy . Here's a few things I have put away in my collection.

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[Ludachris]

I wish we could get Phil Beers back in here (@Phil1320). I know he has a shit ton of memorabilia that I've seen him post over on FecesBook in recent years that he could post here too, probably pages of it. There's no way I could find all of that stuff he posted on FB now though, given the nature of how FB works. Would be really cool to have it posted here in this thread so people could bookmark it or follow it and easily refer back to it later.

 

[ArcticTsi]

I wish we could get Phil Beers back in here (@Phil1320). I know he has a shit ton of memorabilia that I've seen him post over on FecesBook in recent years that he could post here too, probably pages of it. There's no way I could find all of that stuff he posted on FB now though, given the nature of how FB works. Would be really cool to have it posted here in this thread so people could bookmark it or follow it and easily refer back to it later.

It was chatting with Phil back in the day that got me to start this thread. He has some great DSM stuff peppered throughout this post.

 

[ist dwa]

I wish we could get Phil Beers back in here (@Phil1320). I know he has a shit ton of memorabilia that I've seen him post over on FecesBook in recent years that he could post here too, probably pages of it. There's no way I could find all of that stuff he posted on FB now though, given the nature of how FB works. Would be really cool to have it posted here in this thread so people could bookmark it or follow it and easily refer back to it later.

I got his phone # already. I have been so busy lately. I plan on doing an interview with him. Stay tuned.