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Old Guy, New Here, Looking To Race

Posted by L5wolvesf, May 7, 2019

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  1. L5wolvesf

    L5wolvesf Probationary Member

    4
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    Joined May 7, 2019
    Northern, Arizona
    Hi all, new guy here and new to the Mitsu Eclipse world.

    I am in the process of finding a suitable car to run in IMCA Sport Compact oval dirt tack races. FWIW, Sport Compact is a very basic factory stock level of car prep. One of the possibilities, based mostly on horsepower to weight ratio, is the Eclipse. One of the things I want the car to have is a manual trans, but finding a 4 cylinder with a 5sp isn’t easy around here. I do come across a number of Eclipse’, but most have automatics.

    Given that my questions are – are the Mitsu automatic transmissions overall strong? Are there any specific weak links I might be able to address while prepping the car?

    Thank you in advance for your input.
     
  2. L5wolvesf

    L5wolvesf Probationary Member

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    Joined May 7, 2019
    Northern, Arizona
    Nothing?
     
  3. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

    437
    120
    Joined Feb 9, 2019
    Hoover, Alabama
    The automatics can't hold the gears nearly as long as they should, which makes it harder to achieve the horsepower numbers wanted. That being said: They're not bad cars and I do recommend, but find a manual if possible.
     

    Street Build 1K  9

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    225  2

    2012 Murray Explorer Dune
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    145  6

    2009 Troy Bilt Bronco
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles
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  4. L5wolvesf

    L5wolvesf Probationary Member

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    Joined May 7, 2019
    Northern, Arizona
    Thank you BLACK'98DSM
     
  5. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    4,083
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    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    Actually, the autos are almost bullet proof with the proper upgrades but in your class racing I understand why you want a standard transmission, for your gear choice and more to choose from. I have a stick car and an auto car (both down at the moment). The stick car is always fun but I like to go in a straight line for a quarter of a mile, and for that, the auto is the car.
    Do you have to run stock equipment in that class like clutch?
    Interesting thread, and WELCOME!!!
    Point us in the direction of these auto cars.....:cool::)
    Marty
     

    311  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 438  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  21

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM

    4K  24

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.612 @ 107.760 · 1G DSM
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  6. L5wolvesf

    L5wolvesf Probationary Member

    4
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    Joined May 7, 2019
    Northern, Arizona
    The rules use the term OEM a lot. But if you read the rules wearing sunglasses, with one eye closed and your head tilted, you might be able to stretch the meaning a bit wider than they would want you to. Don't know if links are OK here but here is a link to the rules.
    https://www.imca.com//wp-content/uploads/2018/12/2019-sport-compact.pdf

    I would prefer a manual and the clutch etc "must be unaltered, OEM for year, make and model of car used". But I wouldn't buy a dealer clutch to do this.

    Thanks for the WELCOME.
     
  7. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Independence, Kansas
    Links are ok to post as long as they aren't spam, LOL.
    A stock clutch was what I was worried about for you, but you seem to have a "handle" on the things needed, so that's good. Nice to see these cars being used for things other than the "norm". Keep us posted please if you get into the class, after finding a car of course! I will be following along and your not an "old guy" upload_2019-5-10_13-42-27.gif upload_2019-5-10_13-42-27.gif , I RESEMBLE THAT REMARK! upload_2019-5-10_13-42-27.gif
    giphy[1].gif

    Marty
     

    311  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 438  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  21

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM

    4K  24

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.612 @ 107.760 · 1G DSM
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  8. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

    3,552
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    Joined Nov 12, 2001
    Roseville, California

    Street Build 8K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 6K  23

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    435.0 whp · 399.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM
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  9. L5wolvesf

    L5wolvesf Probationary Member

    4
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    Joined May 7, 2019
    Northern, Arizona
    About the clutch, I could probably get away with a stock “looking” clutch. The rules have us drill an inspection hole in the bellhousing. I read about a car that’s available that “pops out of 4th gear”. Is that a common problem? Likely a full rebuild I’m thinking.

    I’ve built, or rebuilt, a few racecars over the years so I’ve gained a pretty decent idea of what is good or not. This will be interesting because it is pretty restricted so choosing the right car will be important. Of course right now there are few good candidates. Thing is I’m itching to get going, but I don’t want to jump the start.

    If I do end up with a DSM I’ll try to do a build thread here.

    Also, and finally, for now, could you (or anyone) confirm that the 2.0 and 2.4 motors are not “variable valve timing” motors. My research so far says the 2.0 is not, but not so sure on the 2.4. Is there any advantage to one or the other?

    Far as old guys go, my racing “heroes” are AJ Foyt and Paul Newman. Newman’s last race was when he was 83 so I have a couple decades to go.
     
    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  10. L5wolvesf

    L5wolvesf Probationary Member

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    Joined May 7, 2019
    Northern, Arizona
    Thanks for the link Ludachris, I'm headed there now.
     
  11. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Independence, Kansas
    Following along. Intriguing. :thumb:
     

    311  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 438  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  21

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM

    4K  24

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.612 @ 107.760 · 1G DSM
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  12. L5wolvesf

    L5wolvesf Probationary Member

    4
    2
    Joined May 7, 2019
    Northern, Arizona
    As a racer at heart I prefer to have people following me. :D
     
  13. Canadian_CD9A

    Canadian_CD9A Proven Member

    434
    128
    Joined Feb 10, 2012
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    DSMs never had variable cam timing. That came with the 2.4L in the 2004+ Lancer Ralliart (and whatever SUV was around at the time). The 4G63 had MIVEC in 2006 for the Evo IX, so no risk there.

    Popping out of 4th is justification enough to tear it down and rebuild the transmission. A basic rebuild shouldn't set you back too much, or just buy another transmission that works. Isn't top speed in 2nd gear really important for dirt track racing? You might want to choose a transmission based on the ratios available.
     
  14. L5wolvesf

    L5wolvesf Probationary Member

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    Joined May 7, 2019
    Northern, Arizona
    Thank you for verifying on the engines. It looks like my choice will be between any years from 1991 to 2005, non- turbo, 2wd, 5sp, with a 2.0 or 2.4. I’m leaving out the 1990 as I’ve read they are a bit of an odd duck. I may post up another thread regarding which Eclipse the folks here might suggest as I’m not really familiar enough with the Eclipse’ yet to narrow it down.

    Yes you’re right, 2nd gear is really important for dirt track racing. That is the gear you spend most of the race in on a 3/8 mile track. I found a gearing chart here but it doesn’t include the 3rd gen cars.

    https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/dsm-gear-ratios-from-eat-sleep-dsm-mag.518320/#post-153694126
     
  15. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Independence, Kansas
    All wheel drive not an option for the class?
    And I agree with the statement of prefering people following me, you nailed it on the head!
     

    311  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 438  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  21

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM

    4K  24

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.612 @ 107.760 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  16. L5wolvesf

    L5wolvesf Probationary Member

    4
    2
    Joined May 7, 2019
    Northern, Arizona
    Here is the chassis eligibility rule.
    2. BODY/CHASSIS: Any front wheel drive, compact car with three or four cylinder engine. No station wagons, convertibles or two seat sport cars allowed, no Honda CRX. Maximum wheelbase 107 inches,

    And engine wise.
    19. ENGINE: 3 or 4 cylinder in-line engines only. Recommended: double overhead cam. All engine components must be unaltered OEM for year, make and model of car used, must match V.I.N.

    Must use OEM crank, rods, valve sizes, stroke, etc. No aftermarket racing heads. No high performance or sport car engines of any kind. No turbo charged, super charged, rotary engines, or engines utilizing variable cam-timing. No unapproved alterations allowed to any engine; disqualification and $250 fine if illegal.
     
  17. Canadian_CD9A

    Canadian_CD9A Proven Member

    434
    128
    Joined Feb 10, 2012
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    In that case, I would probably go with a 93-94 DSM that has the 7-bolt N/A 4G63. The head design on the 6-bolt is not good for low-end power, which would handicap you in an already low-powered engine. The 95 (2G) DSM got the 420A as the base engine, which is a blah motor for the weight it would be carrying around (wouldn't want to get beat up by a bunch of Neons with the same engine, would you?). The Spyder got the 2.4L as the base engine.
     
  18. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    4,083
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    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    Dont go 420a for the original class, it just doesnt have what you need from a factory stand point. 4g63 N/A or 4g64 are good power plants. Not knocking the 420, but it would need some modifications to be the motor you need, IMO.
     

    311  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 438  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  21

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM

    4K  24

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.612 @ 107.760 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  19. L5wolvesf

    L5wolvesf Probationary Member

    4
    2
    Joined May 7, 2019
    Northern, Arizona
    You’re right, getting beat by a similarly equipped car would suck. Thing is the Neons look to have the best hp to weight ratio (based on published street car numbers) with the first gen Eclipse a close second.

    Interesting that you both mentioned the 420A. I was reading about weight distribution and found that the 420a cars had the engine mounted on the right side of the car and further back in the chassis. I’m presuming the right side refers to the passenger side and I will have to read further on weight distribution but I believe that would be a further disadvantage.

    The thing is . . . finding early DSMs (no automatic, no turbo etc) is not easy. So I have further questions. Are the turbo motors the same as the non? Are they lower compression? Are the computers different? Is it easy to un-turbo them?
     

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