oil starved intake cam

[jdmawd]

just pulled the timing cover and belt off for the second time to find out why it keeps jumping timing after 1 second of ideling. and i found this on the number 13 and 14 cam caps. looks like excessive cam shaft drag from oil starvation. i guess thats why the intake cam was out of phase every time the belt skipped. nice way to destroy a brand new cams shaft after 1 minute of running.

 

[allwheelTSI]

sorry to hear that,dude,maybe you have a plugged oil hole?

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by allwheelTSI
sorry to hear that,dude,maybe you have a plugged oil hole?

cam is gone also brand new 272 intake cam lasted 1 minute in the motor

 

[CBgst]

damn I would be temped to blow up my car if it did that to me

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by CBgst
damn I would be temped to blow up my car if it did that to me

im not mad at the car just pissed i wasted so much time and money on tools and crap to still have to take it to a shop to be fixed

 

[theCRANKwalker]

dude i think you have a problem

 

[KenTSIII]

Not only is the cam trash.. but more than likely the head is also. Unfortunately I had a the exact same thing happen to me last fall. I was having a friend help me when installing my new engine. Turns out that he overtorqued the cam caps. They are only supposed to be torqued to like 15# if I remember correctly. There was also some damage to the stock cams that came out of that head.. so there could have been some previous damage to the journals already.. and the over torquing just added to the problem. Expensive lesson... now you're out at least 1 $300 cam if not 2.. and need a new head.

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by jdmawd
just pulled the timing cover and belt off for the second time to find out why it keeps jumping timing after 1 second of ideling. and i found this on the number 13 and 14 cam caps. looks like excessive cam shaft drag from oil starvation. i guess thats why the intake cam was out of phase every time the belt skipped. nice way to destroy a brand new cams shaft after 1 minute of running.

Oil starved? My GOD it looks like you left a flathead screw driver in there.

How is the head?

 

[Tevenor]

The head is even worse than the cam.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by Tevenor
The head is even worse than the cam.

exactly for some reason i cant load the pic on this board ill try again.

As for over tightening the caps I don't think that was the problem because the stock intake cam came out looking just like the hks cam. I should have taken the damage to the stock cam more seriously. My only guess to the cause is when I installed the oil filter relocation kit some Teflon from the threads must have gotten into the oil line after the filter and got clogged in the head. cant be pissed at the car because of user error.

 

[TellschAWD]

Originally posted by jdmawd
My only guess to the cause is when I installed the oil filter relocation kit some Teflon from the threads must have gotten into the oil line after the filter and got clogged in the head. cant be pissed at the car because of user error.

Where did you pull your oil feed to the turbo from?

I am thinking if you used the oil filter housing for the turbo feed and plugged the head with a bolt that was too long, you might have blocked the oil passage to the exhaust cam journals.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by TellschAWD


Where did you pull your oil feed to the turbo from?

I am thinking if you used the oil filter housing for the turbo feed and plugged the head with a bolt that was too long, you might have blocked the oil passage to the exhaust cam journals.

the damage was on the intake cam, oil is suppled to the turbo from the head.

 

[Tevenor]

My vote is still for junk in the oil passages that starved it. Any sign of anything in the oil?

 

[TellschAWD]

Originally posted by jdmawd
the damage was on the intake cam, oil is suppled to the turbo from the head.

It just seems like the chances of enough Teflon getting into the system to end up clogging a passage would be somewhat hard to do. Between the rare chance that the Teflon would even come off (let alone enough to clog something) and the high oil pressure under WOT – seems like a long shot. I don’t know though.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by Tevenor
My vote is still for junk in the oil passages that starved it. Any sign of anything in the oil?

Not as of yet, i spent the morning pulling the head. i have not pulled the filter or drained the pan yet. I agree junk in the oil is my guess, i also got a new head today. Do you think its a good idea to have the worn sections of the intake cam machined or should i just replace the cam? the exhaust cam is fine (thank god)

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by TellschAWD


It just seems like the chances of enough Teflon getting into the system to end up clogging a passage would be somewhat hard to do. Between the rare chance that the Teflon would even come off (let alone enough to clog something) and the high oil pressure under WOT – seems like a long shot. I don’t know though.

I agree with you, the only changes to the car since the last time i started it was the turbo and oil filter relocation kit. the car ran perfectly prior to those to changes, i parked the car in the winter and it ran fine. last week i installed a new turbo and oil filter relocation kit. as soon as i started the car it had problems from that point on. After further inspection i found damage to the intake cam prior to installing the hks cams. The damage in the above pic is identical to how the stock intake cam looked when i pulled it out.

Just by looking at ther head it *appears* that oil flows right to left through the head. why would only those to places have starvation damage. if the entire passage was blocked i would think the whole cam would be destroyed not just under the number 12 and 14 caps.

 

[NDgsx]

Did you put the caps back in their original location, pointing in the right direction, put oil on the cams/cam journals prior to install, and torque the caps down in the proper sequence? Without the rocker arms installed did the cams turn over smoothly?

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by NDgsx
Did you put the caps back in their original location, pointing in the right direction, put oil on the cams/cam journals prior to install, and torque the caps down in the proper sequence? Without the rocker arms installed did the cams turn over smoothly?

Yes but the original caps were not used because those two caps were destroyed when the stock intake cam cam out. i cant say i tried to spin the cam with the rockers removed. keep in mind that the factory installed intake cam came out chewed up just like the hks cam did. this is what i assumed caused the timing belt to skip, before i installed the hks cams.

 

[babell2]

Sorry to hear about your problems. You did it. the caps and journals are a line bored mated set. If one is replaced it needs to be line bored again to true out any mis alignment. Thats why you cant swap cap positions and direction either. it was the 1/2 done job when the first cam went that cost you your HKS cam. I wouldn't woory about blocked oil lines unless that is what made the first cam go.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by babell2
Sorry to hear about your problems. You did it. the caps and journals are a line bored mated set. If one is replaced it needs to be line bored again to true out any mis alignment. Thats why you cant swap cap positions and direction either. it was the 1/2 done job when the first cam went that cost you your HKS cam. I wouldn't woory about blocked oil lines unless that is what made the first cam go.

The type pf damage done in the length of time was due to oil starvation. If I could post a picture of the original cap journal and cam, you would see the extent of the damage. The friction from lack of oil was so great that it caused the timing belt to slip and advance cam timing about 3-4 teeth on the intake side only. The failure was my fault I agree but not from improper torque or cap placement those two journals were not supplied with lubrication.

I wouldn't woory about blocked oil lines unless that is what made the first cam go.

i destroyed a $300 cam shaft because i did not think the blocked oil passage was a problem.

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by jdmawd


Do you think its a good idea to have the worn sections of the intake cam machined or should i just replace the cam?

Not unless you are going to send it out for surface hardening. There is a certain depth of hardened material on the cam, once you machine or punch through it you are at the softer alloy. It'll wear down so fast you'll be doing it again in no time.

 

[hostile]

One of my stock cams did this to me, what happened was the tesnioner came off the timing belt so it ran low on oil at the same time it jumped timing 3-4 teeth just like you said.

I had bent valves but no damage to my bottom end.

I would probably just buy a new cam it really sucks but if you didnt you would lose sleep about it.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by JayHass


Not unless you are going to send it out for surface hardening. There is a certain depth of hardened material on the cam, once you machine or punch through it you are at the softer alloy. It'll wear down so fast you'll be doing it again in no time.

thanks for the input jay the groves in the cam are pretty deep, and that was my concern about having the cam profiled. i bought a new head, and i got my new hks intake came today along with a set of arp head studs. since the head is off and the studs have to be replaced anyway. we will see if i can get it right this time. i think im going to have the timing belt job done by a shop, im not trying to screw it up any further.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by hostile
.

I would probably just buy a new cam it really sucks but if you didnt you would lose sleep about it.

you are 100% right thats excatly what i did, 325 bucks for the cam. the price you pay for over the counter sales

 

[jpolizo]

Just out of curiousity, has anyone tried one of those pre-oiler things? I saw one on "Two Guys Garage"; it's a pressurized tank that looks like a propane cylinder but also contains oil. You hook it to the oil pressure sensor mounting hole, open the valve and it squirts pressurized oil through the system without the engine turning. When everything gets good and oiled, you remove it, replace the oil sensor, and then crank the beast.

I don't know if it would have prevented this problem, but it sounds like an interesting idea in general.