Oil leak after taking car to a shop

[DarthBulk]

I am looking for some tips from anyone who has been in a similar situation to this. I just spent the last 5 months resurrecting a 1992 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD that had been sitting for 6 years with a blown engine. I had the head professionally rebuilt, and the engine shortblocked with Mahle pistons by a reputable shop. I then assembled the engine, after sandblasting and powder coating every single bracket and piece that I had taken off the car. It was a lot of work. I also rebuilt the entire brake system, and the front control arms and even the cross members under the car. After all the work, I started the car and it ran beautifully. I sold the car to my dad, who then drove it carefully for a little over 500 miles to break the engine in. I had installed a manual boost controller, and tried to turn it down as far as I could, and it was easy to drive the car without going anywhere near 15 psi. We didn't dare drive it hard during the break in, but as a consequence of that, I didn't know exactly what the maximum boost level was set to. That should not have been a problem, because we knew enough to not drive it hard until the engine would be broken in. I was going to go to my dad's house last weekend to set the boost level for him. He said the car was idling high (from 1200 to 2000 rpm, depending on temperature) so he said he would take the car to a shop and have them set the idle down before I came on the weekend to set the boost level for him. He dropped the car off in the morning at the shop, and they thought they would get to it by the end of the day. Well, my dad arrived at the shop after work, and walked into the following scene. The shop owner was standing by the Laser, drumming his fingers on the roof, talking to one of the mechanics there. There was smoke coming out from under the hood of the car. My dad was appalled, and asked what was going on. The shop owner tried some fast talking, and said he had taken the car out for a "test run" before they even started to check the idle. When pressed further, he said he "only took the car up to 3000 rpms and then the computer shut it down". He claimed there was no damage, it was only power steering fluid that was sprayed all over the engine. Well, my dad took the car away from them and drove it home (only about 1.5 miles). I looked at it this weekend, and found that it was NOT power steering fluid. There was OIL everywhere. It seems to be coming from somewhere down by the exhaust manifold, and the whole front of the engine is dripping oil onto the ground. There was even a lot of oil pooled under the spark plug cover, but none down in the spark plug wells. My guess is that the head gasket is blown, and oil is being forced out where the head meets the block, but I don't know for sure. I think what happened is that the shop owner took the car for a drag run, and since I don't know what the maximum boost was set to, he probably horribly over boosted the engine, hit fuel cut, and blew the head gasket. He WAS TOLD it was a brand new engine with only 500 miles on it, and he had NO PERMISSION to drive the car...he was only supposed to set the idle speed.
So my questions are these. Does this sound like a blown head gasket, or could the oil be coming from something else? I didn't see any coolant in the oil, and the car still runs, but it is pushing a lot of oil out somewhere by the head. The brand new turbo (MHI EVO III 16G) doesn't seem to have any oil leaks.
My other question is about legal recourse against the shop. I talked with a lawyer, and he basically said there isn't much you can do. You can take them to small claims court, and that is about it. Has anyone else been through a situation like this? Do you have any tips about how to get the shop to pay for repairs?
Needless to say, I feel awful about this whole deal. I have a lot of time and money into this car, and it makes me sick to think a lame-brained fool of a shop owner took it for a joy ride drag run just for his own jollies, and ends up doing this kind of damage, and then claiming he didn't do it.

 

[2gGSX]

Unfortunately the lawyer's right. You don't have substantiating proof that the mechanic did that to your car, or even that he took it for a joy ride. If you do decide to take it to small claims court and say that he told you it was just power steering fluid, he could easily say that never happened and you'd be SOL since again, there is no proof that he said that.

Bottom line--sorry dude.

 

[DarthBulk]

Well, I have his own admission that he took the car for a "test drive" (which wasn't even necessary when all he was supposed to do was check the idle speed), and that he hit what sounds like fuel cut, and that the car had ZERO leaks of any kind before it was taken to his shop, and that I could take the car over 3000 rpms all day long as long as the boost is kept low. I think small claims court would get us a repair, but I hate going through the hassle, time, and money of small claims court.

 

[fertez_turbo]

You rebuilt the motor and dropped it back in yourself but you could not manage to set the idle?

Sucks about the car though. I like the break in method of beating the hell out of it for the first 20 miles to make sure the rings set properly, though.

 

[DarthBulk]

Well, the idle issue didn't appear until after it was driven for a while by my dad, who lives 2.5 hours away from me. So I could have set the idle, I just wasn't there I did fix it now, it turned out that the throttle plate in the rebuilt throttle body was installed upside down, and it would stick and not close completely.
That break in method is fine, as long as you don't run 20+ psi of boost while doing it

 

[2gGSX]

Well, I have his own admission that he took the car for a "test drive" (which wasn't even necessary when all he was supposed to do was check the idle speed), and that he hit what sounds like fuel cut, and that the car had ZERO leaks of any kind before it was taken to his shop, and that I could take the car over 3000 rpms all day long as long as the boost is kept low. I think small claims court would get us a repair, but I hate going through the hassle, time, and money of small claims court.

You have his own admission based on what? A recording? Video camera? A statement from god?

It's his word against yours. Throwing more people into this mix does not help either since there is conflict of interest (shop workers, your dad, etc).

 

[123212321]

For all you know, the oil leak could be simple. How about finding out what is wrong with it and where it is coming from before you go through all this?

There is something that inherently comes with building your own car - and that is that you can't trust anyone else with it. When you do things yourself, you can not bring your car to other places and when something goes wrong with what you did - freak out and blame them.

Chances are that you did something wrong that caused that oil leak - not the mechanic/manager. Ten times out of ten they can go for a test drive in a car without it spewing oil all over the place. EVEN if he did romp on your car, it shouldn't have done that unless you did something wrong with the install. Just find out what is wrong with it and fix it - apparently it didn't cause much damage so just get it fixed and do the work yourself.

 

[DarthBulk]

For all you know, the oil leak could be simple. How about finding out what is wrong with it and where it is coming from before you go through all this?

There is something that inherently comes with building your own car - and that is that you can't trust anyone else with it. When you do things yourself, you can not bring your car to other places and when something goes wrong with what you did - freak out and blame them.

Chances are that you did something wrong that caused that oil leak - not the mechanic/manager. Ten times out of ten they can go for a test drive in a car without it spewing oil all over the place. EVEN if he did romp on your car, it shouldn't have done that unless you did something wrong with the install. Just find out what is wrong with it and fix it - apparently it didn't cause much damage so just get it fixed and do the work yourself.

Of course it is possible I did something wrong, but I think you didn't look at my profile before posting this. I am not new to DSM's and this is nowhere near the first engine I have put together and installed in a car. Maybe you also missed the fact that the shop owner was caught red-handed having just driven the car, and telling my dad that he had hit what sounds to me like fuel cut, with smoke coming out from under the hood.
You obviously also missed the fact that I said the car could have been OVER BOOSTED if he had taken it out and did a drag run with it. I had a manual boost controller installed, and I have no idea what it was limited to. Why? Because I didn't dare take the engine to 15 psi in order to check it, until after it was broken in. I just turned it way down. No one is freaking out. I asked some questions looking for help. Next time, read and think before you post. You didn't answer any of my questions anyway. Dismissed.

 

[EclipseSH21]

Sounds like they blew out your dipstick, and shoved it back in real quick. How did the car feel on the ride home?

 

[xxraptor660xx]

Sounds like they blew out your dipstick, and shoved it back in real quick. How did the car feel on the ride home?

How does that explain "oil coming out from where the head meets the block"?

I feel bad for you being stuck in this situation. Your first mistake was driving the car home. You should have left it there, or had it towed home.
How big is the shop, mechanic/bay wise?
How long has he been in businness?

The possibilities of you getting some money legally are very slim, and are dependant on the questions above. I would go to the guy and threaten to take him to court, maybe have your dad yell at him a little bit. You might scare him, and make him pay up front.

All I can say is good luck!

 

[TimG]

Oil from the front of the motor which seems like a headgasket is sometims confused with a missing or an incorrectly installed exhaust manifold stud. One of the lower exhaust manifold studs goes into the head and right into an oil passage. If the bolt/stud/whatever is used is missing or loose, you'll leak oil everywhere from the front of the block.

 

[DarthBulk]

How does that explain "oil coming out from where the head meets the block"?

I feel bad for you being stuck in this situation. Your first mistake was driving the car home. You should have left it there, or had it towed home.
How big is the shop, mechanic/bay wise?
How long has he been in businness?

The possibilities of you getting some money legally are very slim, and are dependant on the questions above. I would go to the guy and threaten to take him to court, maybe have your dad yell at him a little bit. You might scare him, and make him pay up front.

All I can say is good luck!

Thanks, I think my Dad will need it. The shop has been in business for at least 10 years, and I am not sure how many bays it has, but I believe it is 4 or 5. This is in a small town of only about 1200 people. The car isn't mine anymore, it is my Dad's, so he drove it home. It was only about 1 or 1.5 miles.

 

[DarthBulk]

Oil from the front of the motor which seems like a headgasket is sometims confused with a missing or an incorrectly installed exhaust manifold stud. One of the lower exhaust manifold studs goes into the head and right into an oil passage. If the bolt/stud/whatever is used is missing or loose, you'll leak oil everywhere from the front of the block.

Now this is some good information. I will let my Dad know that if he takes the car to a shop for an inspection, to have them look closely at those studs. I know all the studs are in there, but perhaps one came loose or something. It is worth a shot to check it out, anyway.

After thinking about it, I think I will recommend my Dad to try a carrot/stick approach. First, tell the shop that if they pay for the repairs, we will post a writeup in the local newspaper saying they are a shop that stands by their work. If that doesn't work, try the stick. Tell them that information will be posted in all the local newspapers and the Better Business Bureau about what kind of business they are running. Remember, this is in a small town of about 1200 people, so bad reputations can be made fast. As a last resort, there is small claims court.

 

[DarthBulk]

Sounds like they blew out your dipstick, and shoved it back in real quick. How did the car feel on the ride home?

I wondered about that too, but there just seemed to be too much oil by the exhaust manifold. I guess it could have all dripped down there, and maybe they wiped it all off the top of the engine. I didn't drive the car home, but my Dad did. He said it seemed to run ok. I went for a drive with him the next day, when I got to his house, and the engine actually felt pretty strong and smooth yet...it was just pushing oil out somewhere on the front of the engine, and it would burn on the exhaust manifold. Here is a picture of all the oil that was under the spark plug cover. I think it was blown upward from by the exhaust manifold somewhere.

 

[123212321]

Of course it is possible I did something wrong, but I think you didn't look at my profile before posting this. I am not new to DSM's and this is nowhere near the first engine I have put together and installed in a car. Maybe you also missed the fact that the shop owner was caught red-handed having just driven the car, and telling my dad that he had hit what sounds to me like fuel cut, with smoke coming out from under the hood.
You obviously also missed the fact that I said the car could have been OVER BOOSTED if he had taken it out and did a drag run with it. I had a manual boost controller installed, and I have no idea what it was limited to. Why? Because I didn't dare take the engine to 15 psi in order to check it, until after it was broken in. I just turned it way down. No one is freaking out. I asked some questions looking for help. Next time, read and think before you post. You didn't answer any of my questions anyway. Dismissed.

You had 500 miles on the engine. That guy could take any other car in the entire place for a redline test drive and oil wouldn't spill all over the place. How does the fact that it is a new engine mean that if you take it to redline that it will shoot oil? Even if he "overboosted" it - how does that lead to oil being shot all over the engine?

This is the conclusion that you have not drawn. I'll tell you what happened: you installed something incorrectly, and it just happened to break when he was driving it.

I'm sorry, and I hope you figure out what it is and I hope it didn't cause any damage - but you don't make a car spew oil over the entire engine bay to the extent of that picture simply by taking it to redline. You simply don't. I do hope it works out but talking about legal ramifications and how you can get a shop to pay for your mistake is just kind of stupid. Cars that are put together correctly do not spew oil when they are taken to redline.

Good luck, seriously. I hope you find out what is wrong and get it fixed for cheap - but there is no way you are going to get someone else to pay for that.

 

[123212321]

After thinking about it, I think I will recommend my Dad to try a carrot/stick approach. First, tell the shop that if they pay for the repairs, we will post a writeup in the local newspaper saying they are a shop that stands by their work. If that doesn't work, try the stick. Tell them that information will be posted in all the local newspapers and the Better Business Bureau about what kind of business they are running. Remember, this is in a small town of about 1200 people, so bad reputations can be made fast. As a last resort, there is small claims court.

That shop did nothing wrong!!!!

How can you pin that on them? You think they loosened something and then drove it just for fun? It was your mistake and they just happened to drive it when it broke. I don't see how you can blame this on them when they obviously did nothing to the engine to make the oil mess that is there. Honestly - what do you think they did to make that happen?

 

[xxraptor660xx]

You sound like an expert. Why don't you offer up some things that I could have done "wrong" that would make this happen?

You say that you've done rebuilds like this before, so you probably have done nothing wrong.

A small general repair's mechanic would deffinitly get excited over a nice little race car, as yours. I can imagine any other shop doing the same thing, just to test the car out and see if it has balls.

Despite you not having actual proof that he did this damage, I can be 100% sure that the damages that were done were his fault.

Also, if you signed an estimate, or repair order before he worked on the car, it should state the he/his mechanics are legible to "test drive" the car without being responsible for any damages inflicted.

 

[DarthBulk]

You say that you've done rebuilds like this before, so you probably have done nothing wrong.

<BOLD>A small general repair's mechanic would deffinitly get excited over a nice little race car, as yours. I can imagine any other shop doing the same thing, just to test the car out and see if it has balls.</BOLD>

Despite you not having actual proof that he did this damage, I can be 100% sure that the damages that were done were his fault.

Also, if you signed an estimate, or repair order before he worked on the car, it should state the he/his mechanics are legible to "test drive" the car without being responsible for any damages inflicted.

Exactly. I actually remember this shop owner from many years ago, when I lived in that same town. I could see him getting excited over a turbo car, as they are VERY rare in a place like that. My dad thought he could trust this shop, and he really doesn't have many options where he lives. I really think that shop owner just got excited and did something he wasn't supposed to do. I'll have to ask my dad if he actually signed something like that. That's a good point. I wouldn't think that would cover abuse of the car, though...if there is evidence of it. He is going to have the car inspected at a dealer on Friday, so we will see what actually happened. If I lived closer, I could find out myself, but unfortunately I can't just pop over there whenever I feel like it.

 

[iwannagofast89]

you dont have those inner valve cover bolts in so thats where it leaked from

 

[EclipseSH21]

Looks like a crapload of oil, and it's not sprayed everywhere, so it's not the dipstick.

xxraptor, the dipstick is about roughly the same height as where the head meets the block and right next to the bloody exhaust manifold. Sorry, guess I was wayyy off How the hell are you sure it was 100% the shops fault?

 

[DarthBulk]

you dont have those inner valve cover bolts in so thats where it leaked from

Good catch, you are talking about those bolts that go by the spark plug wells, right? Actually I starting taking the valve cover off before I stopped and took these pictures. I decided that before I took everything apart, I would clean up the oil and take it for a short drive to see where the oil was coming from, and that is when I noticed it coming from down by the exhaust manifold and getting all over the front of the engine.

 

[BoostedinSoFla]

Cracked Valve cover.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266354

 

[Talonracn50]

I dont see any way that much oil was "blown up from the exhaust manifold." Was it all over the bottom of the hood too?

I would check your spark plug well gaskets and the oil cap gasket.

 

[DarthBulk]

I was surprised too. I'll have to check the valve cover for cracks. I know that the boss where the spark plug cover bolts to the valve cover, by the timing belt, is broken. I cleaned up the oil in there, and after the short drive we did, there was no more oil under the spark plug cover...just by the exhaust manifold.

 

[xxraptor660xx]

Looks like a crapload of oil, and it's not sprayed everywhere, so it's not the dipstick.

xxraptor, the dipstick is about roughly the same height as where the head meets the block and right next to the bloody exhaust manifold. Sorry, guess I was wayyy off How the hell are you sure it was 100% the shops fault?

Pretty much a first hand point of view. I can imagine a mechanic at my shop doing the same thing..