offical cooking pot style heat shield thread

[BigRand]

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=326366

There is th link....any more questions from blitz's thread should be directed here.

The pot would work well for my application...I'm plaining on jet coating my manifold and turbo at some point, the downpipe is already stainless steel.

I think for the average person it would cost too much to have the welds made for a super custom sheild like blitz is making.....and I bet if you were to sell what your making the price would have to extremly high for the man hours into it.


I figure a Pot, cutting wheel, drill, and file the average DIY person could take a crack at it and afford to mess it up.


P.S. hey paul can you move this to the bolt on section so its accessable to everyone.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Re-post the link, it's not working.

 

[Blitzeclips]

I like the shield, I do. But I think it's still not as effective as I'd like a heat shield to be. It may look pretty, but the primary function seems dilluted by the polishing and convenience of a household pot..

That pot alone will cost more then my entire material cost. Although, with the welding I'm doing I can see someone paying more for labor. That is, if you don't have any friends whom can do it, or let you use their welder...

Thanks for starting the new thread though. I appreciate that Rand..

 

[InfiniteGSX]

I like the shield, I do. But I think it's still not as effective as I'd like a heat shield to be. It may look pretty, but the primary function seems dilluted by the polishing and convenience of a household pot..

That pot alone will cost more then my entire material cost. Although, with the welding I'm doing I can see someone paying more for labor. That is, if you don't have any friends whom can do it, or let you use their welder...

Thanks for starting the new thread though. I appreciate that Rand..

Yeah well just how "effective" is a true heat shield? Its just a piece of cheap metal covering hot exhaust components. You touch it by accident and it will burn the living crap out of you, no matter how purty or ugly it is. Plus, anyone you decide to open your hood for should be smart enough to know... Hot... OUCH... Don't Touch! If I ever open up my hood for anyone and they grab the turbo or exhaust components, hell even cooling system components and jerk back and say ouch, I'm slapping them in the face and hand them a sign that says "I'm Stupid!" The only thing that I think that this wont work out for if it did cool the touch down, is the Wastegate... its still exposed, so is the downpipe. But we can fix that with some good ol exhaust rap.

I think this pot idea is insanely hot! So as soon as I get some spare cash that doesn't have to be spent towards food and car payments and what not, I'm going to try this out with my .57 trim.

 

[Blitzeclips]

If anyone touches anything under my hood without my permission: I HOPE it burns them.

The heat shield isn't effective if it isn't done right. It isn't a shield for objects, it's a shield to absorb heat radiated from the manifold and the turbo. Like I said, that pot style shield really isn't doing anything other then look good. I'm telling you guys... You need to isolate the heat for effective results!!

 

[kronus]

If anyone touches anything under my hood without my permission: I HOPE it burns them.

The heat shield isn't effective if it isn't done right. It isn't a shield for objects, it's a shield to absorb heat radiated from the manifold and the turbo. Like I said, that pot style shield really isn't doing anything other then look good. I'm telling you guys... You need to isolate the heat for effective results!!

While I'm no expert in thermodynamics or anything of the sort, I'd like to point out something that goes along with Blitz.

If you took a look at an OEM heat shield, don't you notice that it's kind of flimsy, and made out of a few layers? I would assume that there is air in between those layers acting as a 'buffer' if you will, between the layers so they don't transmit the heat.

And another thing I'd like to point out is that a pot is made for cooking. So it transfers heat from the element to the food. Isn't that kind of what it's doing here? Transferring heat from the insanely hot turbo and air around the turbo, to what ever is on the other side?

Now I know that I don't have the best analogy, but if anyone has actually scientific/mathematical data that they could post to prove me wrong, that'd be much appreciated. Because I could very well be wrong, and things could be vastly different between turbo and non-turbo cars.

 

[BigRand]

Stainless Steel as a metal dissaptes heat very well compared to others normally found on exhaust. Ie. the difference between a Stainless Steel downpipe vs. a mild steel, the transfer of radiant heat is relatively low compared to each other.

The pot is a CHEAP way to help reduce heat coming off the imediate turbine housing which is very very hot.....although the manifold is neglected for the time being the POT style heat sheild is a start.

To be honestif your taking off your manifold and can wait two days or so, your best bet would be to send it in to get jet coated for $60...but if your like me and need your car mostly everyday your very reluctant to take anything if you don't have too.

Blitz I understand you have the ability and time to weld things, as I wish I did, which would bring your cost of a heat sheild down.

 

[Shadow98]

Plus one for Kevin.

 

[DSMcrazy3]

I think I am going to try the pot idea this week. The pots are more expensive than I had anticipated, ranging from $30-$50. On top of that all of the ones I see seem to be too big, but that's with my naked eye. I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

If you ask me... if you're going to spend $50 on a pot, you might as well spend the extra $20 for a real turbine heat shield.

By the way, the factory heat shields are layers of steel with an insulator sandwiched in between (not air). Plain sheet metal heat shields will never be quite as effective, but they'll still do the job. They work not by blocking radiant heat, but rather by keeping a pocket of air enclosed around the manifold or turbo. The shield prevents the air from escaping, thus reducing convection.

It doesn't necessarily matter whether or not the metal itself is good at conducting heat, so long as it can stand up to the extreme temperatures without breaking down or letting significant amounts of air through.

 

[kronus]

If you ask me... if you're going to spend $50 on a pot, you might as well spend the extra $20 for a real turbine heat shield.

By the way, the factory heat shields are layers of steel with an insulator sandwiched in between (not air). Plain sheet metal heat shields will never be quite as effective, but they'll still do the job. They work not by blocking radiant heat, but rather by keeping a pocket of air enclosed around the manifold or turbo. The shield prevents the air from escaping, thus reducing convection.

It doesn't necessarily matter whether or not the metal itself is good at conducting heat, so long as it can stand up to the extreme temperatures without breaking down or letting significant amounts of air through.

Ah Ha!!! Thank you for that info. That's exactly what I was looking for.

 

[Blitzeclips]

Plain sheet metal heat shields will never be quite as effective, but they'll still do the job. They work not by blocking radiant heat, but rather by keeping a pocket of air enclosed around the manifold or turbo. The shield prevents the air from escaping, thus reducing convection.

It doesn't necessarily matter whether or not the metal itself is good at conducting heat, so long as it can stand up to the extreme temperatures without breaking down or letting significant amounts of air through.

Great reiteration Paul. Like I said guys, you need to isolate the heat!!! That's the only effective route for a heat shield. The less hot air escaping, the better.

Yesterday 04:33 PM


The heat shield isn't effective if it isn't done right. It isn't a shield for objects, it's a shield to absorb heat radiated from the manifold and the turbo. Like I said, that pot style shield really isn't doing anything other then look good. I'm telling you guys... You need to isolate the heat for effective results!!

Also, as I stated in the other thread, if you notice, these features are applied to our OEM shield. Look at the dramatic downward bends it has in the metal. This is done for a reason, as it isolates the heat better; keeping it contained within the general/primary source of the heat is what you want, so it won't radiate out onto other parts within the bay.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Um... kinda...

I specifically said, it's not about the radiation, it's about the convection. For that reason, I think the pot style shield will do a decent job. A turbocharger has a relatively complex shape, so there aren't many other ways to cover the turbine unless you get one of those Thermo-Tec turbo diapers.

 

[Blitzeclips]

I see. Not to nit pick but convection cannot occur with a heat source. The heat becomes radiated off the turbo for the convection to even occur.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Eh???

Okay, if you want to be technical; heat from the surface of the turbo radiates to energize nearby air molecules (we're talking about a distance of 1^-10 m) here. The air molecules, now with more energy than before, begin to spread out; meaning they are now less dense, and thus weigh less per unit of volume. The less dense, hot air is lighter than the ambient, colder air, so it rises. As it rises, it displaces the colder air, which sinks toward the turbo. Thus, a current is formed, and convection ensues.

Radiation is a less efficient method for heat transfer when compared to conduction and convection. As you know, energy follows the path of least resistance, so it makes sense that convection would be the method of choice here.

 

[Blitzeclips]

Eh???

Okay, if you want to be technical; heat from the surface of the turbo radiates to energize nearby air molecules (we're talking about a distance of 1^-10 m) here. The air molecules, now with more energy than before, begin to spread out; meaning they are now less dense, and thus weigh less per unit of volume. The less dense, hot air is lighter than the ambient, colder air, so it rises. As it rises, it displaces the colder air, which sinks toward the turbo. Thus, a current is formed, and convection ensues.

Radiation is a less efficient method for heat transfer when compared to conduction and convection. As you know, energy follows the path of least resistance, so it makes sense that convection would be the method of choice here.

The first bold word came before the 2nd bold word. Like my previous post, the radiant heat needs to occur first, before convection can even happen. The one thing leads to the other. See what I'm saying?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Ugh... not quite. The radiant heat is so insignificant, that it's classified as purely convection. Radiant heat is like what comes from the sun, not what travels 1^-10 m from one molecule to another.

 

[4UH8ERS]

Unless you get one of those Thermo-Tec turbo diapers.

. Haha don't have to worry about my turbo taking a crap now.!

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Yeah, I don't know what they're called, that's just what they look like to me.

 

[Blitzeclips]

Ugh... not quite. The radiant heat is so insignificant, that it's classified as purely convection. Radiant heat is like what comes from the sun, not what travels 1^-10 m from one molecule to another.

Aye! You and your attention to detail..

 

[DJ23GSX]

I think its a great idea and looks good too but i think i would have the inside ceremic coated to help shield the heat better

 

[BigRand]

Basically if your worried about the heat...just have your turbine and manifold jet coated.

Only attempt the pot if its a low cost option. $50 pot +labor compared to a $80 heat sheild off ebay (your call).

And if you have the welding skills like blitz you can build your own custom made heat shield for even less.

How is that for consensus?


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Now I have another question (which I might have to start a new thread for...but I'm really hi jacking a thread that "I started").

I'm thinking of making a coild air intake box like corbrin did on 2gnt.com I was just going to build a box out of sheet matal (test fit with cardboard of course), and have it be a complete 3D box surrounding the air filter off my turbo inlet.

I was going to have a whole that collects fresh via a tube collecting air from one of the air dams below.

I am also thinking that on other air boxes I have seen before they usually have a like a foam filter on the top side of the box.

Anyways the main reason I am posting here is because of all the scientific minds we've got in this thread already.




I have a couple of questions to facilitate some conversation.

1) What is the space requirement between the box and the air filter that sits inside of it? I don't want to restrict the air by having it too close so is this something ot worry about?

2) Is there a better way to isolate the heat from outside to the inside of the box with better materials?

3)What size diameter should the air duct/tube be to provide enough air for the isolated air filter?

4) what are the pro's and con's that are overlooked of an airbox design?


EDIT: I'M starting a new thread please respond there.... http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252566