North-South mount 4g63 issues

[zac83]

Anyone want to comment on possible problems with a north-south mounted 4g63? im going to start fabbing a cradle to bolt into a small body (probably rx7 or something of that sort) this weekend and was wondering if anyone had any ideas as far as problems making it run.

Problems like: cooling system wont flow when car is under hard acceleration...
Oil pan/pickup would be in the front of the pan and wouldnt pick up oil durring accel...
thrust washers dont support the kind of lateral force that accelleration would put on them...

Can anyone think of anything else?

 

[autronicDSM]

Solid motor mounts and really, REALLY stiff shocks/spring in the rear to eliminate weight transfering as much as it's possible. Sorry that's all I can think of that would help. Keep us updated though I was thinking about doing the same but in DSM and making adapter plate for T56 or another 6 speed.

 

[Tevenor]

Buy an oil pan with a proper baffle and you won't have as much issue with accel oil starvation. Or sump pump it. Why won't the cooling system flow? You don't plan on using stock DSM radiator hoses do you? Hook the leads to the radiator whereever it may be and go from there.

 

[zac83]

Im definantly not using stock hoses... my idea behind this was: how many inline motors do you see with the water neck on the back of the motor? not to many... i just dont want some rarity in flow that would cause prolonged cavitation at the pump when i need it: after i get down the track. i guess i could just use a coolant accumulator before the pump. I was also thinking about using the 3 quart moroso oil accumulator and not worry about relocating the oil pickup. (obviously putting good baffled pan in...)

Im looking for some feedback on the thurst washers tho... would hate to crankwalk a motor after a few weeks.

and so my next project is born.

This is a project that im gona try to do for under a 3 grand. Ive got 9 inch axles and DSM parts laying around. i can build a racing turbo350 to hold the power no problem. I figure a shell RX7 beater or something like that would be a blast to swing around the turns and pull 11 sec (or lower) passes out of. ive got a blown block (front ballance shaft siezed and blew a chunk out of the front before i bought the car) that im going to strip down. I'll hoist it up and fab a engine cage around it. If i get to it, ill post pics this weekend.

I was also thinking about making an SVO clone with a 4g63... that would require a 4 banger block as a template for custom motor mounts and i would have to rebuild/relocate the tranny since they are garbage trannys and need the work done anyway. but this is all just an idea: i like the RX7 body better.

I figure i could use the halfshaft/AC compressor bolt holes, the rear roll stopper (rear mount) as the drivers side motor mount positions, the pass. side could be held up by both of the mount faces on that side... I figured accessories could hang to the drivers side and custom tubing/turbo could be on the pass. side. I need to track down a good big turbo that would mount well. A front mount would be used. Damn, im going to need to put a hump in the RX7 hood... it wouldnt be DSM style without the hump

RX7 rears are pretty sturdy but a ford is more managable. have to track down a 9 inch disk rear or beat up my redneck buddy for his 8.8 inch disk rear.

 

[GRNDSM]

>Im looking for some feedback on the thurst washers tho... would hate to crankwalk a motor after a few weeks.

Crakwalk should not be a major problem (well, no worse than usual). You will not be able to generate enough G’s to even come close to the thrust loads of ACT2600 or ACT2900 clutches. Plus, bare in mind that these motors were originally designed to be used in RWD pick-ups…

> i can build a racing turbo350 to hold the power no problem.

Turbo350/400 are not good trannys for RWD DSM project. I would ether use Powerglide, MightyMax truck or as I recently found out, Mazda B2600 bell housing with just a couple of dozens of different trannys that it can match up to. The problem is that using B2600 bell housing requires the use of “wide” G63/G64 family engine, which only came in NT varient. Which means that you will have to have to start by building a new motor.

For more info on this topic check out: http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75890

>I was also thinking about making an SVO clone with a 4g63...

Well, there are a few 4G63 powered Starions and Starlets out there .

>4 banger block as a template for custom motor mounts

You can use truck motor mounts as a baseline. Why re-invent the wheel?

>I figure i could use the halfshaft/AC compressor bolt holes, the rear roll stopper (rear mount)

1G 4G63 blocks have provisions for RWD motor mounts on both sides of the block.

>I need to track down a good big turbo that would mount well.

Stock 14B turbo can run 12.0’s on 3100lbs DSM, it should be capable of mid to low 11’s on sub 2500lbs vehicle. “big turbo” should be the last thing on your mind.

Leon
RR
'80 TR7 GS-T

 

[zac83]

thanks for the thoughts.

In reguards to using truck mounts: i was thinking about that but decided in wanted to make my own 'engine cradle' of sorts so i could just take the hood off, unbolt it in a few places and pull it out with a hoist. this cradle device would also severly stiffen the front end of the car which is a veeeeeeeery good thing.

I think im going to use my 90 FWD-t parts shell for this. It's going to be a pain in the arse to make the rack and pinion work with a RWD transmission right there, ... After I get the engine cradle made, i might start tubbing this weekend too.

As far as making a transmission fit: ive got a plasma, MIG, and a few serious drill presses, so i shouldnt have any problems making an adapter plate for whatever tranny.

thats a very good article on the transmissions and opens up a few new doors. I'm going to stick with something big for a transmission tho. This is going to be a trailer to the track deal so I'm looking at building a monster motor here. I figured i would just go with fabricating everything into place and running it with a mild (350-400) horsepower 4g63 and look for some sponsor help from a machine shop or whoever wants to help build the motor up to specs with the rest of the car. Unfortunantly there isnt very much money in little guy unibody import class but hey, its a project and it's gona be fun.

and the turbo: obviously a 14 wont push me to crazy horsepower numbers that i'll eventually be hunting for. I figured i'de go ahead and find a slagged ball bearing big unit somewhere and rebuild it, fab the manifolds for it so i dont have to redo that later when i find that i have an inadequate turbo for a built motor. not to mention with a cradle set-up i could just throw away a stock 4g63 block every other month after i boost it to 35 PSI on the weekends at the track :Evil Grin:

any other ideas? im looking for anything anyone has scribbled down on a ####tail napkin or kept in the back of their noggin. Ive got the parts laying around and a big ego to prove with this thing.

 

[GRNDSM]

Well, consider one more thing. If you want to race competitively, most import drag racing sanctioning bodies prohibit mixing-up manufacturer of the car and the engine...

So if you want to build 4G63 powered vehicle for competition, I would start with a Mitsu body... If you are dead set on RX7, you might want to choose a Mazda motor…

It would really suck to build a custom drag car just to compete in exhibition classes or against 7 sec tube cars.

Unless you just want to have some fun, then you can do just about anything . Like what I am doing with a TR7 .


Leon
RR

 

[pneumo]

Get a backwards turbo. I don't have any details on this, but it sure would be nice to put the compressor side in the front and the exhaust pointing out the back. That'll avoid two 180 degree turns.

 

[GRNDSM]

You do not need a back wards turbo. You can just moung a regular turbo 180deg off. Check my TR7 Engine bay photo.

Leon
RR

 

[nothing stock]

You can get a forester intake manifold or have a sheetmetal manifold made so the TB can be in the front of the engine bay.

 

[zac83]

well its stripped down and sitting at my place... i got sidetracked most of this week prepping my car for daily use... its a major swap so it's been a monster to get going well. im heading back to my shop (3 hours away) today and will put a bit more work into the N/S project. I'll see if i can get some good pictures up. just wanted you guys to know this isnt a dead project after a week of no posting