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noob to AWD and DSMs; what is AWD Disadvantage exactly?

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.Lex.

20+ Year Contributor
47
0
Jan 14, 2003
Vancouver_BC_Canada
I heard this before, that on a rolling start the awd has a disadvantage?

Can someone explain or point me to somewhere that explains why awd is a disadvantage on rolling starts, also I heard you cant drop clutch from starts?

Thank you.
 
It's not exactly that big of a difference on a rolling start vs fwd. Also, you can dump the clutch all you want, you have to pay for the transmission, though ;)

Anyhow, welcome to the wonderful (and sometimes not so wonderful) world of AWD :thumb: Kick back, relax, and stay a while here :)
 
AWD is less reliable due to more parts and less "give" when you drop the clutch, AWD = less mpg, and the parasitic drag from all the extra drivetrain parts is totally noticable (My brothers totally stock 95 gst smokes the shit out of any stock gsx, even some modded ones, from a roll that is).
 
Weight. That's the only disadvantage AWD will have against a FWD car.

Oh sure, you can clamor all day about a precious percentage of drivetrain loss, but ##### please, if you're making more than double the perscribed horsepower, FWD doesn't cut it well enough no matter how good of an LSD/Tyres you have when putting it in a turn.
 
Most GS-T owners wish they got a GSX but you don't see GSX owners wantin to trade for FWD so what does that tell you? By the GSX- It'll make you go from this::barf: to this::cool:
 
why race around turns when you can find your nearest secluted country road and just race 1/4ths- anything else is just screaming "pull me over"
 
The only disadvantage realy is top end and launch from a roll becouse the extended drivetrain sucks up more power than just FWD so your wheels see slightly less HP than the same car and setup on a FWD, however the flip side is hard ass launch's from a dead stop.. and way better traction in snow, rain etc.

other disandavtages are you just can't play with it far as drifting goes unless you build up/tune the suspention and drivetrain correctly.. otherwise to much/drifting on a dry corse (as it's stupid to do on public roads) will kill your car in no time.

still wish i had the money and time to make my 90 AWD TSI RWD... i wana play with it!!! but oh well hard launch's make up for it (still want RWD setup correctly it will launch harder than AWD (yea sure someone will disagree but then they probly haven't seen one setup right then)
 
When giving information about something, it is best to tell the whole truth. Saying just drivetrain power loss and weight is not the only reason to or not to get a awd. Quite lame in my opinion

Which drive train you should get really depends on the type of person you are. If you enjoy making hard launches from a roll and getting good track times by just dumping the clutch, better traction in all weather, and more parts to fix, go with the awd. If you are most likly going to be racing from a roll, enjoy the experience only 2wd can give you, and like the better gas mileage, go with the fwd.

I personlu picked fwd and get sorta offended when people just say "Get awd cause its the best" without a reason to back it up. In my opinion, that is an ignorant thing to say.
 
I went with AWD becuase of great launches, autocross, axle spins, and because the drivetrain really doesn't slow you down that much from a roll.
 
I prefer AWD, but it's up to you. Disadvantage is the weight, but you can quickly fix that by upgrading performance..

My best friend drives a GST and he's got a Super 20G in it. He wishe's he could've got a GSX, becuz with so much hp in a fwd, you will spin out.. He practices his launches ALL the time, but with a lot of hp, most of the time, your wheel will still spun out.

But like i said, everyone is different.
 
Umm....

the reason (this is for 1gs mainly) AWD gets hurt so bad is NOT parasitic drive loss or weight. These things are negligable and when you have a 400HP gst and a 400HP AWD even on a road the AWD should do better becasue it's not torque steering/it can put the power to the ground. So where does *our* DSMs really get hurt at?

Gear ratios. Seriously; the only race I've lost was to a 6 speed RSX *cough* and I had him by 3 car lengths (I was stock and he was modded) up until 80MPH or so. But you know what happened?

I shifted into 4th and he pulled past me around 90MPH. It was right there that I realized we have one of the longest 4th gears on the planet. The 3rd gear is magical like it is in every DSM and our second is decent. Anyone who races with AWD knows 1st comes to the redline WAY too fast; which is what makes Shepards stock ratio car all that more amazing.

Yea, having 250 pounds more is some-what bad. Getting a 5% more drivetrain loss doesn't suck if you don't ever have to worry about traction or the dreaded torque steer. But shifitng into 4th and being able to go forever? That sucks. Our cars disadvantage is that out of 5 gears we have only 2 that are decent for racing. Oh well; my local track is an 1/8th and I have yet to ever need to get into 4th gear.
 
How much worse is MPG? I imagine not by that much correct?

Im looking to buying a 1G Talon so I have to decide which is best for me, Im in Vancouver, and lots of rain here and some snow, so im pretty certain im going AWD.

Also cant you upgrade the gears/gear ratios/transmition?

Thank you for helping a n00b to DSM out :)
 
Anyone who says that the power loss doesnt make a difference in their AWD is in denial. I was with my brother when he raced a 97 gsx from a roll with intake, type s bov, 3 inch exhaust, 3inch downpipe (cat eliminated), and a boost controller set to 15psi. My brothers car is a bone stock 95 gst. They went from a roll and it was dead even until they shifted (my brother is a horrible driver) so the gsx got lil ahead when they shifted but it wasnt pulling very much at all. It only went to like the middle of 3rd gear and by that time my brothers front wheel was still at the gsx's rear wheel. Gee that 5% makes a big difference.

And if you cant tell I also get offended when people come out saying the AWD is god and FWD sucks ass.
 
Anyone who says that the power loss doesnt make a difference in their AWD is in denial.

Apparently you haven't considered that other factors come into play. No, I'm not in denial. What makes you think that 5% can't be overcome and makes such a big difference? I've beat mod'd FWD's in a stock AWD before. Do you or have you owned an AWD? You honestly can't tell me the difference is huge.

Besides, how many times do you race from a roll and how many from a stop? I'd say my ratio on that is 10 from a stop for every one from a roll.
 
drivetrain loss makes a huge difference. just look at trapspeeds. the car with a higher trapspeed is the car that wins from a roll. my GST ran a 14.9 @ 99 mph...as opposed to GSXs running the same times in the high 80s mph. and yes 10 mph difference in trap speed is huge...ls1s trap 104-105 and totally stomp me. so the advantages of a gst vs a gsx? well if handling isnt a factor...gsx if u want a track car, gst if u want a roll car
 
Sure the 5% (I bet its more then 5%) can be over come with mods. But do those same mods to a FWD and the FWD is still putting 5% more to the ground. I ride in my friends 91 AWD just about everyday, that my brothers stock 95 gst smokes I might add, so yes I know the difference and have seen the difference many times in races (some of which I already mentioned). And roll races happen a lot more then stop races when cruising the local blvd.
 
Honestly, what it all really boils down to and where the whole AWD is god over FWD comes from single digit track times. AWD drivetrain is so much easier to get into lower e/t's. By saying easier, i mean the traction/launching issues of awd vs. fwd in dragstrip racing. It will all matter what you plan to do with the car. If you plan for an 11 sec e/t goal or lower, go with AWD. If you plan to do slight mods on the car and take it to the track every now and then, and you like big long tire wasting burnouts... go for fwd. The MPG difference is about 2-3 mpg from the two. Yes, the transmission can be upgraded, the most widely known is John Shepherd's upgrade.

Zenkai, i agree with you to a point. But let's say this, we take two cars, a 95 gst and a 95 gsx. We put 20g's on both of them and the supporting mods to run 400+ hp. We take both cars to a track and run street tires on both of them, i'd be willing to bet $100 that w/ the same driver in both cars, the AWD is going to pull a lower e/t. Which do you want, Getting there faster or going faster when you finally get there?
 
Sure the 5% (I bet its more then 5%) can be over come with mods. But do those same mods to a FWD and the FWD is still putting 5% more to the ground. I ride in my friends 91 AWD just about everyday, that my brothers stock 95 gst smokes I might add, so yes I know the difference and have seen the difference many times in races (some of which I already mentioned). And roll races happen a lot more then stop races when cruising the local blvd.
'

Right. But what we are trying to say is "this guy I know beat this guy" doesn't cut it.

Anyone know what a Mazda MX-3 is? I use to have a 4 cylinder 105HP MX-3. Run's 17's stock and it had enough mods in it to run mid 16's. I beat a 300ZX (N/A, mind you) from a stop to about 70MPH because I assume the guy couldn't drive. But you know what?

I don't run around telling people that 4 cylinder MX3's are god over a 300ZX. Use real racers or road and track. Somethign *other* than your no name friends. Not an insult but it gets annoying seeing this on EVERY board for EVERY car. "My friend beat a Z28 with his Integra GSR. God, Z28's are slow."

Honestly, what it all really boils down to and where the whole AWD is god over FWD comes from single digit track times. AWD drivetrain is so much easier to get into lower e/t's. By saying easier, i mean the traction/launching issues of awd vs. fwd in dragstrip racing. It will all matter what you plan to do with the car. If you plan for an 11 sec e/t goal or lower, go with AWD.

Zenkai, i agree with you to a point. But let's say this, we take two cars, a 95 gst and a 95 gsx. We put 20g's on both of them and the supporting mods to run 400+ hp. We take both cars to a track and run street tires on both of them, i'd be willing to bet $100 that w/ the same driver in both cars, the AWD is going to pull a lower e/t. Which do you want, Getting there faster or going faster when you finally get there?

Perfect. I'm just reiterating what this guy said. At 190-210HP stock a FWD will eat an AWD alive on anything higher than a 10 MPH roll (A LOT of cars can) But when you get to 400HP fwds have to worry about torque steer, they will still break traction 2nd gear at 50MPH, you have a FWD so the power is being transferred to the back wheels which are pretty much there for the ride. Lol, you can even say FWD doesn't have parasitic drivetrain loss but it definately has parasitic wheel loss. What does the AWD have to worry about?

Shifting fast enough into 2nd and breaking parts.
 
The difference from a roll is HUGE.

Plus, you've got to remember the FWD has a little taller gearing. So you don't have to shift as much. You can just let the turbo power you through the gears. Plus, the car is lighter.

AWD's just seem to bog down after you hit 3rd gear. The FWD's are just getting warmed up

If you want to play Supra owner and race from a 30mph or more roll all the time, FWD is the way to go. If you'd rather drag race to 60 from a stop every time, get the AWD.
 
Well im planning on modding the car to around 300hp, because after that the MPG goes skyhigh am I correct?

I will be doing auto-x, track racing, every now and then - some drag racing.

Thanks for all the comments so far, keep em comming :)
 
I love my GS-T :thumb:

But for what you are doing get a GSX for alot of stop and go. But I like Street/Hwy racing.
 
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