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Non-DSM but trying to get some expertise please

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4gfun

Supporting VIP
2,009
55
Dec 10, 2007
Ask Me, Virginia
Not sure if anyone here is familiar with tipping valves or grinding the inside of the bucket pedestal for non adjustable ford buckets which is in this case are on a Focus SVT. I swapped buckets around to get as far as I could go after lapping the valves but I still have 2 that I just can't compensate for.

Being that we have some pretty aggressive DIY here I'd like to get some thoughts from some that may know.

My local machine shop is pretty crappy so I try to do everything that I can myself.

I read that you can tip the valves on a 6 inch wheel grinder but you must grind perfectly straight or the bucket will turn it's hole and destroy the hole and the motor. I know that there are valve grinding machines but you must be lucky to find a used one to even have that be cost effective.

I also read that you can grind the inside of the bucket by buying the dremel kit that turns my dremel into a drill press but read reviews on the dremel kit that it is not so stable. Besides, I wouldn't even know what grinding media to purchase. Also read that only the very end of the stem is hardened.

Thanks for any knowledge transfer! I wish all of my vehicles were blessed with HLAs.
 
If you’re going to do enough of them it seems logical to build a jig. It shouldn’t be too hard to design with cnc as accessible as it is these days. I think a lot of your limit here will be our lack of complete understanding of what you’re trying to accomplish as we obviously don’t deal with that style of valvetrain as much as others do. If you’re just grinding the end of the valves down to take material off that really doesn’t sound hard at all provided it’s a straight grind with no radii or anything.
 
This is helpful. I wish that I had the knowledge to build such a jig if I were to take the angle of grinding the valve stems. Just keeping straight is the beast like you said.
 
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Why not just order the correct sized shims? This is the correct way to perform this clearancing when using bucket/shim style cam systems. Measure the clearance and if it's out of spec, measure the shim, add the amount you need to be within clearance, and order them. Usually 5-10 bux a piece. Have to do this with 7mge-gte engines, and it's tedious but worth it.

Other option is see if there is a Mazda equivalent hydraulic lash adjuster that you can swap in, but that usually changes valve tip height requirements.

What year focus svt is this? And what engine specifically (model # perhaps)?
 
Why not just order the correct sized shims? This is the correct way to perform this clearancing when using bucket/shim style cam systems. Measure the clearance and if it's out of spec, measure the shim, add the amount you need to be within clearance, and order them. Usually 5-10 bux a piece. Have to do this with 7mge-gte engines, and it's tedious but worth it.

Other option is see if there is a Mazda equivalent hydraulic lash adjuster that you can swap in, but that usually changes valve tip height requirements.

What year focus svt is this? And what engine specifically (model # perhaps)?

Hey...

The correct sized buckets have not been available for years and I can not even get a used set. In fact, the head is extremely rare in itself. This is an 03 Focus SVT. They are all the same between 02-04. There is no engine code either. I have asked and asked but the community is so dead.

Regular Focus Zetec buckets are sized far too differently as well which really cuts down on my options. The buckets are solid to make it even worse (no shims). This car is like the Galant VR4 is in the DSM world with nothing to show for it besides being in an econobox form factor and even then it is not economical. I didn't do my research before I purchased this thing.

Anyways, I just ordered the dremel "drill press" for my dremel in hopes of grinding away at the pedestal (part that touches the valve) with aluminum oxide grinding stones. However, there seems to be some inference that the pedestal is only hardened at the very edge. I don't know if anyone really took the time to prove or disprove that.

It also seems that the folks in Subaru do this (or at least debate about it).

The preferred method in the Focus SVT world seems to be tipping the valves with a 6 inch grinding wheel using an unidentified jig.

The valve seems to be verified as hardened further up. Leaning towards the below method

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/grinding-valve-stem-to-adjust-lash.21963/

Thanks
 
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Hey...

The correct sized buckets have not been available for years and I can not even get a used set. In fact, the head is extremely rare in itself. This is an 03 Focus SVT. They are all the same between 02-04. There is no engine code either. I have asked and asked but the community is so dead.

Regular Focus Zetec buckets are sized far too differently as well which really cuts down on my options. The buckets are solid to make it even worse (no shims). This car is like the Galant VR4 is in the DSM world with nothing to show for it besides being in an econobox form factor and even then it is not economical. I didn't do my research before I purchased this thing.

Anyways, I just ordered the dremel "drill press" for my dremel in hopes of grinding away at the pedestal (part that touches the valve) with aluminum oxide grinding stones. However, there seems to be some inference that the pedestal is only hardened at the very edge. I don't know if anyone really took the time to prove or disprove that.

It also seems that the folks in Subaru do this (or at least debate about it).

The preferred method in the Focus SVT world seems to be tipping the valves with a 6 inch grinding wheel using an unidentified jig.

The valve seems to be verified as hardened further up. Leaning towards the below method

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/grinding-valve-stem-to-adjust-lash.21963/

Thanks
I see, haven't had one in front of me to check. Can you do me a favor and measure the outer diameter of the buckets, overall height, and distance from valve tip pocket to bottom of the bucket skirt? I wouldn't be surprised if there's a Mazda bucket with shims that could swap for the zetec ones.
 
Thanks. I created an account at that site I linked to for some additional ideas since it was a topic already.

I am going to grab my dial caliper and get those measurements. Thanks for the idea. I am swinging back and forth between buckets and stems as my option here BTW.

BTW, how do I measure the bottom of the valve tip pocket to the bottom of the bucket skirt? Also, which part of the buckets are those. Seems like these parts bare several names.
 
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The bucket is what should be going into the hole and actuating the valve. The skirt is the lowest part of that bucket at the bottom, just like a piston skirt. The valve tip pocket is where the valve tip contacts the bucket up inside it.

A straight edge across the skirt and caliper using the depth peg. Could also use a micrometer to measure the valve tip pocket to lobe face of the bucket, then overall height from lobe face to bottom of skirt and do the math.
 
A word of caution here, valve tips are hardened on just the tip as are the buckets, you can take a small amount off to clean them up but too much and you will eat through the hardening and have wear issues, also if they are sodium filled you will get an unwanted surprise if you break into the sodium plug in the tip of the valve, have a bucket of water handy. if you have that much wear you need new valves (aftermarket) and possibly seats on those cylinders.
 
Diameter of the bucket is exactly 3mm.

Overall height is 25.11mm

Valve tip pocket to cam surface average is around 11.5mm. Desired calculated sizes are around 11.385 or 11.445 inches by best estimate.

Math is not my specialty.

I have a dial caliper and manometer if I didn't get something right though.

Here are the list of the discontinued tappets with some specs if bored, LOL.

https://www.fordpartsgiant.com/part...6mt/cylinder-head-related-parts.html?PNC=6500

Starting from 2M5Z-6500-AA

Thanks again.
 
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A word of caution here, valve tips are hardened on just the tip as are the buckets, you can take a small amount of to clean them up but too much and you will eat through the hardening and have wear issues, also if they are sodium filled you will get an unwanted surprise if you break into the sodium plug in the tip of the valve, have a bucket of water handy. if you have that much wear you need new valves (aftermarket) and possibly seats on those cylinders.

Thanks, see I was reading that varied by vehicle though. Is this kind of the rule of thumb or is this vehicle specific?

Man, I had no idea on the sodium plug! Would be just my luck and thanks for the falling.
 
The Mazda BP lifters are the same diameter and overall height, but the valve tip pocket to cam face is around .670", or ~17mm.

Might be able to have the cams reground on a smaller base circle to match those since they run shims.

I don't have anymore Mazda KL stuff around, but they had hydraulic buckets in them and I wouldn't be surprised if they're the same dimensions as the BP stuff.

Otherwise your in for some PITA since the svt valves are kind of one-offs on size and length, so swapping them is more difficult to accommodate different lifters.
 
Thanks for all of this. I appreciate it. Turns out that the 2 valves meet the spec but are on the tighter side. Might have to revisit in a few thousand miles to check up. One guy says stay in the middle of the range on the exhaust valves and the other insisted that he was fine on the closer "shorter" side of the range. Going to take the risk.
 
I'd say it'll prolly be fine, depending on how hard you run it. If it's in the spec range you should be fine for a while. Is it on the tight side or loose?

Gotta risk it to get the biscuit, good luck!
 
I'd say it'll prolly be fine, depending on how hard you run it. If it's in the spec range you should be fine for a while. Is it on the tight side or loose?

Gotta risk it to get the biscuit, good luck!
Lol! So true! Especially considering this is not the only element of the build. Lash is on the tight side unfortunately. If it survives for a few hundred miles, I will do everything that I can to keep it cool and use the best quality oils. Snake oil for avoiding burnt valves I guess.
 
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