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2G No start up after crank... sorta?

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MissSpyderGST

10+ Year Contributor
82
12
Mar 12, 2010
Luthersville, Georgia
So my Spyder (view "MissSpyderGST's" vehicle profile for her mods) is having a strange no crank issue. The "sorta" part of it is because when we replaced certain parts, she would start up just fine and run fine, like nothing was wrong and it was fixed, until she sat over night and then, no start up from attempting to crank. If the following part allowed her to start, I'll put an asterisk following that part. We have replaced: fuel pump, MPI relay, ECU, fuel filter*, fuel rail with injectors and FPR*, fuel injector resistor pack, spark plugs*, coolant temp sensor, [idle air control valve], checked all coils on the COP, made double sure the plugs were gapped properly, took TB off to clean (needed it really bad) and [bypassed the FIAC], did a boost leak test which was sealed extremely well, as the BISS screw flew out, replaced the BISS Screw and o ring and I'm sure I may be forgetting something/s. The reason for the brackets around the FIAC and IAC is because when she was running great after the fuel filter, she had idle surge, so we thought the car was fixed after that, as she cranked up and started just fine after several attempts, and even after sitting for a couple of days. Now we are back at square one and have no idea what else to check for. The fuel filter seemed very promising! The fact she sat overnight several days and cranked right up left me with a lot of hope. Now, she's back to that slow and agonizing crank up, and doesn't start again. We also drained the fuel and replaced it with clean, new, premium. Still nothing. The only other thing I can really think of that we haven't full on replaced would be the TB, but idk if that would even fix the issue. I tested a part of the O2 sensor (ohms between two of the pins) and it seems to be within spec and fine. I haven't really found another thread that seemed to be like this issue, so I was hoping if anyone had a good idea as to what's going on.
The partial rebuild of the cylinder head I did earlier this year (mods on profile) and followed all instructions to a T. She had a few problems after that "rebuild" and those have been fixed, so I'm not sure if these new problems are a result of what I've done or because she's just being stubborn and doesn't wanna run for me (being the typical DSM she is and decided to come up with a new issue for me). Help, please! Hubby and I are OUT of ideas. :banghead:
 
Yeah, the engine is rotating, slowly. Battery and terminals are fine. Starter is great (onviously). So I know those aren't my issues. I also replaced the CAS and CPS, with no success on even a good start up after those. Also rotated the cam trigger, thinking it may have been turned 180 degrees, but that wasn't an issue. I'm not sure how to do a log... I have DSM Link, but that's all I have. We did check for compression, spark, fuel, and everything seems to be doing well in that area. :confused:
 
A slowly rotating engine on crank would indicate indicate a weak battery to me.

To create a log, go into ecmlink, start stream....attempt to start the car then stop stream. Save the upload to here as a file.
 
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I can do that. I will do the log tomorrow as well, providing I can get away long enough to do it. I was wondering if anyone had any idea as to why my car started up great and ran perfect after the fuel filter install, though? The car was great for about a week and a half and then it started it again (then I found out the filter was actually fine...:ohdamn:).
 
I had slow crank issues when I got my car. Turned out to be the ground cable was completely off of the starter (the one that bolts to the transmission side). I decided to clean all the ground cables in the engine bay.

Checking the battery voltage is a great idea and also check for parasitic draw.

Another thing to look at is the coolant temp sensor and those wires.
 
Try jumping the car from another running car with jumper cables attached and see if it cranks faster or not, that would narrow it down some.
 
Sounds like a voltage drop, check your grounds. Ground cable might have moved for the week, you hit a bump on the way home bumped it loose again.
 
I have jumped it off with our Tacoma. And it was still kinda slow. I'm about to go out there and do the log. So hopefully within an hour I'll have that posted and maybe we can figure out something from there.
Try jumping the car from another running car with jumper cables attached and see if it cranks faster or not, that would narrow it down some.
 
So, she's not doing the slow crank like she was before, however, she still won't start. I just created a log, and it is posted here:
 

Attachments

  • Log, December 30th 2019.elg
    1.9 KB · Views: 87
I've swapped out batteries, and it's still doing the same. Like I said, the cranking up seems to have improved (or maybe I've just gotten used to driving my other vehicles, that I expect her to crank the same way). I posted the log and honestly I have no idea what I'm looking at and if it provides any answers to why she isn't starting.
 
I've swapped out batteries, and it's still doing the same. Like I said, the cranking up seems to have improved (or maybe I've just gotten used to driving my other vehicles, that I expect her to crank the same way). I posted the log and honestly I have no idea what I'm looking at and if it provides any answers to why she isn't starting.

I’m on my phone now. You’ll want to look at the voltage before and while you’re cranking it over. Also want to see the coolant temp to be close to what ever the current temp is.

If it’s cranking over, the no start isn’t a battery issue. You’ll want to verify it has fuel and spark
 
I'll post a video sometime tomorrow afternoon, then. I've been scratching my head on this issue. Everything I've tried doesn't seem to be working, so I'm willing to try anything.
 
What injectors are on it? If they're stock, zero the global deadtime under the fuel tab.

Got to edit tab and capture the following
battery
throttlepos
tpsvolt
idleswitch
iscpostion
combinedft
stft
closedloop

Then edit again and select all the above to display

Then post another log.

Have you verified it has spark and fuel pressure?
 
Okay I can try that when I get back home. I did make a video of trying to crank her up. Its posted here: fuel and spark are there. For some reason she did one big backfire in the beginning. That was new.
 
Check the barking. Scratch that. Check the timing
Buster barks at everything... :ohdamn: We have checked timing three times already and it seems good, so when I get back home, I'll hook up the good ol' laptop again and check the tune as you mentioned before hand.
 
What injectors are on it? If they're stock, zero the global deadtime under the fuel tab.

Got to edit tab and capture the following
battery
throttlepos
tpsvolt
idleswitch
iscpostion
combinedft
stft
closedloop

Then edit again and select all the above to display

Then post another log.

Have you verified it has spark and fuel pressure?

I agree with tk106. Your mod list says you have cams installed but doesn't state what injectors you are running. I do have a few questions to add to help understand what the car has and what could potentially be wrong.
What year is the car?
Is it a 6 bolt swap?
Have you verified mechanical timing?
Have you verified ignition timing?
Can you disable the injectors and get it to run on ether/ starting fluid?
Can you preform a compression test and post the numbers?

I would start with removing the upper timing cover and putting the motor to TDC and verify cam timing, then I would remove all the plugs and verify compression. If both of those are good then I would zero out the injectors ( if they are stock 440/450cc) or use https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/baseinjectordata for a base line for you new injectors size.
 
My car is a 1997, 7 bolt. Verified mechanical timing three times, haven't verified ignition timing, though. Not sure now. Idk about the disabling the injectors and starting it with starter fluid (sorry, it's been 10 years since I've really worked on cars). The last compression test I did was about a month ago. Numbers were 130, 100, 100 and 120, dry/cold compression test. My injectors are stock currently. My goal is to eventually do about an EVO build, but first things first is to get it running.
 
-So the minumum serviceable limit for compression is 120 psi and seeing 2&3 are lower than 1&4 says that something isn't right mechanically. Where those numbers before or after you fixed/rebuilt the head? Either way it should still sort of run. I just looked at the data on the ecu and under the fuel tab can you 0 out the deadtime if the injectors are stock and under the misc tab can you click the use a non 95-96 cam sensor. I'm not familiar with 2g's but i thought the only ecu's that could get ecm link were 95-96 eproms and the 97-99 had ecu's that were more like a evo. So I think that should help with it running try them and the post back what happens.

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