No Disengagement, tried everything

[overdoseheroin]

Listen to what has been suggested by the above poster! Shim the fulcrum pivot ball!!!! Think about it this way: You have a see saw that will go up 2 feet on either side. What's the best way to make that see saw swing up higher than 2 feet? Do you get a longer board or do you make the fulcrum/pivot higher? Same analogy to your clutch fork. Your SC or MC push rod will not need to move as much to displace the fork. It doesn't matter if you put a 20 foot rod there, the angular distance been displaced by the fork at the TOB will not change dramatically untill you shim it!

Mike.

THANK YOOOOOOU!

 

[TalonJohn94]

I understand that principle, but I'm sure you can understand how I want to eliminate ALL other possibilities.

I tell you what, if/when I shim it - it will be at least 1/4 inch.

I guess I just don't understand why you should have to CHANGE the "angular distance."

Flawed engineering?

 

[Morphius]

Your SC or MC push rod will not need to move as much to displace the fork.

True only because the clutch fork is now biased towards the clutch eating up any designed in tolerances.

It doesn't matter if you put a 20 foot rod there, the angular distance been displaced by the fork at the TOB will not change dramatically untill you shim it! :

Actually it will be less. The effective lever length decreases as the clutch fork travels in it's angular motion.



If you persue putting in a longer slave rod, I would suggest installing a 3000gt AWD slave cylinder instead. It will result in more slave travel for the same master cylinder travel. The potential danger with the longer slave rod is preloading the TOB on the pressure plate which leads to early TOB failure. There is no definite way to tell if you're at that point or not.

 

[TalonJohn94]

OK. Thanks a lot for a slightly different view on things.

I just want poster to know, I am not keeping a longer slave cylinder ROD installed no matter what - I just wanted to see if that would work for that day.

So the 3000gt AWD slave cylinder has a farther travel, but not a longer rod .... that sounds like a potentially good solution.

Maybe I should just try the Advance Auto Parts slave cylinder ($14) first, and if that doesn't help (return the OEM unit) and run out and get the 3000GT AWD slave cylinder and try that. It bolts right up correct?

Also, does anyone know the answer to my other question, about the fragility of the master cylinder, and if the adjustment rod is supposed to remain at a slight angle in relationship to the C-bracket?


BTW, I appreciate ALL the help - even if people will laugh when I admit the need to shim

 

[Morphius]

So the 3000gt AWD slave cylinder has a farther travel, but not a longer rod .... that sounds like a potentially good solution.

Maybe I should just try the Advance Auto Parts slave cylinder ($14) first, and if that doesn't help (return the OEM unit) and run out and get the 3000GT AWD slave cylinder and try that. It bolts right up correct?

The slave cylinder looks nearly identical, however the bolt holes are not tapped on the slave cylinder like a DSM unit is. You'll need two bolts/nuts to bolt it up.

 

[overdoseheroin]

golddiamond...i wasnt "laughing" at you to make fun of you, i was just trying to get my point, im telling you what to do to save you time and money and make it easier on you instead of doing all this stuff and trying to diagnose it..and most of all not have a car, i just told you what to so that you could be done wit hit because ive been down this road many many times. just good advice to help ya out.

 

[k3k0a]

golddaimond...... i had the exact same problem, try this... put it in gear and hold the clutch and brake down, then start the car, if the car turns on and you can release the brake and it will act like an automatic car then you need to shim your pivot ball. this will tell you that your clutch is disengaging but not enough.

when i was figuring out my problem, you will be suprised that the difference bewteen your clutch engaging and disengaging doesnt need to be that much..... every little bit counts

 

[TalonJohn94]

OK, so I put in a new OEM clutch slave cylinder, SS clutch 'tube' and bled the hell out of it today. MAYBE another slight improvement.

I am going to break down and commit to pulling the trans again to shim. I will have to wait a while, because I may be getting a storage (garage) where I can work on my car. I have a daily driver, which is a Geo Metro (3-cylinder ) and is by far THE best car I've ever owned.

I hope its just the clutch not fully disengaging, but this used ShepRacing transmission doesn't feel like its cracked up to be. I mean, even with the car not running - its not by any means "buttery" into 1st and 2nd gear, and 3rd and 4th are mediocre to get into - and very easy to get out of (kinda like your cables are disconnected). I opened up the trans. when I got it and found the 4-spider center diff, and some different purple anodized (shift rails?) and it was clearly cracked open before and even had a coat of AlumaBlast on it. I don't think the previous owner would lie about the synchros..etc,.. I could just need to adjust the cables though.

ANYWAY... how thick can you go with the shims, 1/4 inch, more?

How does the behavior of the ACT 2600 change over time, does it get less grabby and easier after break in?

 

[TalonJohn94]

..... I'm tempted to go like 1/2".

 

[TalonJohn94]

If anyone reads this ever, I fixed the problem NOT by shimming pivot ball - which I did and didn't help. I fixed it by welding a nut on the c-bracket of the shifter pedal assembly. This gave me the needed adjustability to get good clutch engagement/disengagement. PM me for details.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

To be honest I saw that coming.
Everyone in this thread was shouting SHIM!! when I had a feeling it was just gonna come down to adjustment/proper bleeding.

There is no reason for your to shim a brand new pivot ball, let alone give it bias in any given direction. It was designed to sit dead center and unless worn - it should not need to be shimmed.
Glad you got it working!

 

[TalonJohn94]

Thanks. I DID appreciate the shimming recommedation - at least I covered ALL the bases now. I just hope I didn't use to many shims/washers. I used like 4 and the fork is pretty far towards the slave now.